49ers Offensive Line

Just a FYI for all the complaints about batted down passes (and some in here thinking they know why they get batted down)

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Just a FYI for all the complaints about batted down passes (and some in here thinking they know why they get batted down)

Batted passes are mostly a product of the depth of the throw. Shorter passes get batted more often.

Has little to do with QB height or offensive linemen

— Steve Palazzolo (@PFF_Steve) January 11, 2021

Hmmmm
So it has NOTHING to do with the OL? Or the QB? Or the D-Line that is playing??

Hmmm I call b******t & it has to do with a combination of a lot of things..
if a DLine is getting penetration into the backfield near the QB CONSTANTLY, more of a chance to bat the ball down..

& yea I seen rapistburger has had the most batted down passes this year & has thrown short most this year if his career.

Still think it has to do with a combination of factors.

NY... you definitely push your agenda like beating a dead horse on the O-Line... QB... etc..
Keep fighting your fight bud..

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Wait, but I thought Jimmy caused our O-line problems due to being a statue....instead, makes it seem like he masked a LOT of our o-line problems.

Oh now you've done it. And I'm here for it!

The truth will set you free jimmy G has a quick release. So it's comical when I hear that tired argument. Glad the analytics are on our side.

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

Hmmmm
So it has NOTHING to do with the OL? Or the QB? Or the D-Line that is playing??

Hmmm I call b******t & it has to do with a combination of a lot of things..
if a DLine is getting penetration into the backfield near the QB CONSTANTLY, more of a chance to bat the ball down..

& yea I seen rapistburger has had the most batted down passes this year & has thrown short most this year if his career.

Still think it has to do with a combination of factors.

NY... you definitely push your agenda like beating a dead horse on the O-Line... QB... etc..
Keep fighting your fight bud..

Depth of target absolutely plays a part, OL and QB play does as well...no one would talk about depth of target regarding tipped balls. I thought that would be common sense for all our offensive line gurus in here

simply saying it's not as easy as saying the OL sucks and that's it. People have their agendas to push and refuse to look at the bigger picture.

Guess what a lot of things can be true, it's not just one thing vs one thing. BUT if you're a Jimmy lover it's pointing fingers at everything but him. If your a OL stan it HAS to be just the OL and nothing else

THATS my problem with a ton of posters in here. They can't look at the whole picture and realize it's not one thing. Imo OL can improve, so can the QB.

So if that's my agenda, fine lol.

NY debating skills 101.

NC:

People like NY can include all of the factors in it like continuity of the OL and full pass protection unit responsibility, receivers inability to get open, inability to establish the run, lack of a mobile or decisive throwing QB, scheme, injuries, etc.

This raw stat simply captures the end results of all of it together and it's correlated with teams that go to the playoffs every year.

NY 2 posts later:

You and NC are so blinded by one topic it's nearly impossible to have a level headed conversation with either of you.

THATS my problem with a ton of posters in here. They can't look at the whole picture and realize it's not one thing.

Originally posted by NCommand:
NY debating skills 101.

NC:

People like NY can include all of the factors in it like continuity of the OL and full pass protection unit responsibility, receivers inability to get open, inability to establish the run, lack of a mobile or decisive throwing QB, scheme, injuries, etc.

This raw stat simply captures the end results of all of it together and it's correlated with teams that go to the playoffs every year.

NY 2 posts later:

You and NC are so blinded by one topic it's nearly impossible to have a level headed conversation with either of you.

THATS my problem with a ton of posters in here. They can't look at the whole picture and realize it's not one thing.

Considering you throw this stat into the OL thread....and every debate, comment you have in here is based around the OL...WELL it's only common sense to know what your agenda is with that stat.

We all know what you're doing, NC. BUT in true NC form you'll move goalposts and copy paste the same thing over and over regarding this topic. IT's fine we all do it from time to time.

Again, the ONLY thing I'm arguing and have been in here, is that PP (because that's your beef) is far more than JUST OL talent related. Now I'm also not saying they can't or shouldn't upgrade. I think we all agree there.

Bigger picture, not some hollow stat that get's tossed up like a trophy every week in the OL thread. I could (and have broken down) that hollow stat regarding QB hits and not making the playoffs, outside of just not being the OL. Bad defense, can't run the ball, having to play catchup, throwing the ball more (more hits), being in constant 3rd and longs where the defense can just pin their ears back, play calling etc.

NC, you think all these teams actually have talented offensive lines that they've spent top draft picks on or cash?


I could breakdown half of those team to prove that's not the case and that there is OTHER factors leading to good PP.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Considering you throw this stat into the OL thread....and every debate, comment you have in here is based around the OL...WELL it's only common sense to know what your agenda is with that stat.

We all know what you're doing, NC. BUT in true NC form you'll move goalposts and copy paste the same thing over and over regarding this topic. IT's fine we all do it from time to time.

Again, the ONLY thing I'm arguing and have been in here, is that PP (because that's your beef) is far more than JUST OL talent related. Now I'm also not saying they can't or shouldn't upgrade. I think we all agree there.

Bigger picture, not some hollow stat that get's tossed up like a trophy every week in the OL thread.

Interesting. Haven't I been saying unit pass protection extends to all factors listed above...consistently?

But are you willing to admit the lack of TALENT is part of that equation? I already know you feel they haven't invested enough picks over the years which is in part, why we're here today. Meaning, relying on guys like Brunskill (UDFA), McKivitz (5th), Skule (6th), bringing in guys like Tom Compton in FA, maybe wasn't the best moves if you were hoping to win a Superbowl in protecting a classic drop back QB?

Lack of TALENT (in PP) is what GM and I have been preaching since the dawn of time.

Do you agree now too?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

NC, you think all these teams actually have talented offensive lines that they've spent top draft picks on or cash?

Final pass-block win rate tally:

1. Packers
2. Browns
3. Cardinals
4. Bills
5. Saints
6. Chiefs
7. Rams
8. Ravens
9. Seahawks
10. Raiders

Not surprisingly, strong playoff correlation (8/10) there. 49ers were down at #22, actually a percentage point lower in PBWR than 2019

— David Lombardi (@LombardiHimself) January 7, 2021

I could breakdown half of those team to prove that's not the case and that there is OTHER factors leading to good PP.

I referenced this breakdown in comparing 2019 to 2020. Same exact results. Meaning it was never "good enough to win a Superbowl." Only difference was the 2019 volume of runs vs. pass hiding this obvious fact (to GM and I and others). You still think they were better last year as referenced by...wait for it...that "hollow stat" you keep whining about. Irony?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Interesting. Haven't I been saying unit pass protection extends to all factors listed above...consistently?

But are you willing to admit the lack of TALENT is part of that equation? I already know you feel they haven't invested enough picks over the years which is in part, why we're here today. Meaning, relying on guys like Brunskill (UDFA), McKivitz (5th), Skule (6th), bringing in guys like Tom Compton in FA, maybe wasn't the best moves if you were hoping to win a Superbowl in protecting a classic drop back QB?

Lack of TALENT (in PP) is what GM and I have been preaching since the dawn of time.

Do you agree now too?

absolutely lack of talent is part of the equation. We have a 5th string first yr playing center most of the yr, Rotating at RG with backup talent and a rookie, McG played awful etc. Toss in a backup QB and a backup to the backup. No steady playmakers all yr. No real off season for guys to jell.

It all plays a part.

There's all kinds of issues, outside of just talent...you won't talk about it though. You just say "unit pass protection" you won't discuss all the other things about it because you don't want to because it waters down your narrative.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I referenced this breakdown in comparing 2019 to 2020. Same exact results. Meaning it was never "good enough to win a Superbowl." Only difference was the 2019 volume of runs vs. pass hiding this obvious fact (to GM and I and others). You still think they were better last year as referenced by...wait for it...that "hollow stat" you keep whining about. Irony?

It was absolutely good enough to win a Super Bowl. They were in the damn super bowl and 4 mins away from winning it! Stop Mahomes on 3rd and 15 and then what? Jimmy makes the proper reads a couple times, then what? Sherm doesn't get burnt on a route, then what? Bosa doesn't get mauled, then what? Deebo doesn't drop a slant, then what? Bourne doesn't run a wrong route, then what? Jimmy hits Sanders, then what? That's a reach of a statement.

IF it was hiding it, then it PROVES your hollow QB hit stat is junk. You can look at every team on that list and breakdown all kinds of stuff that leads to those numbers ONE being OL talent, but there are MANY factors that go into it. Again something you don't want to talk about.

this final pass-block win rate tally shows a bunch of teams, all don't have top offensive line talent. ALL didn't spend a f**k ton of high draft capital on offensive guards lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

It was absolutely good enough

If never was. At all. This is where we disagree.

But at least going forward, we're on the same page! That's all I care about now.

Originally posted by NCommand:
If never was. At all. This is where we disagree.

It was good enough to go to the SB and be 4mins away from winning it, regardless of all the other s**t that happened outside of OL play.

There isn't a fan in here that thinks they shouldn't upgrade say center. I've never argued OT/C being massively important to this scheme and coaching staff.

If you want to have a real discussion on "unit pass protection" and realize there's a ton more to it, I'm down for that. IF it's just gonna be QB hits this QB hits that with no real context...gross.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

If never was. At all. This is where we disagree.

It was good enough to go to the SB and be 4mins away from winning it, regardless of all the other s**t that happened outside of OL play.

There isn't a fan in here that thinks they shouldn't upgrade say center. I've never argued OT/C being massively important to this scheme and coaching staff.

If you want to have a real discussion on "unit pass protection" and realize there's a ton more to it, I'm down for that. IF it's just gonna be QB hits this QB hits that with no real context...gross.

It wasn't good enough before, during (when they passed) and since. I'm just saying with the same personnel and no real changes, naturally the results will be consistent. And they have. Very. Even predictable.

As to the rest, all good. I've never had an issue talking beyond talent and if you agree that's an issue now too, we'll have a platform to discussion.

I do not believe a QB is responsible for his own pass protection though so we probably disagree on the degree to which a more mobile QB can mask these pp issues if no more talent is added. But hopefully we add talent to both and together, that'll make a bigger difference.