49ers Offensive Line

Has anyone done a deep dive on McKivitz's play this year? I kept getting confused between him and Compton at RG during games.

Does McKivitz show promise to be our starting RG next year? PFF has a bad grade on him this year, but Barrows wrote about some promising games and him growing in that role.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, they once got rid of their really good OL and built it back up. To NY's point, they have a new scheme now that also helps and Baker and the OL are getting more and more comfortable in it and in playing off each other.

That OL last night was without their top guard and RT for most of the game.

They're a run first team much like SF...getting up 21-0 just helps with everything. Play book opens up, run game is flowing, baker can move enough to help everyone etc etc.

They have a good OL spent cash/picks on center/OTs much like we have. Sf needs to get a good center.

It was and they still held the Steelers to their lowest pressure rate of the year but like you said, getting up early certainly helps reduce that number significantly because they can pass less.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, they once got rid of their really good OL and built it back up. To NY's point, they have a new scheme now that also helps and Baker and the OL are getting more and more comfortable in it and in playing off each other.

What I was trying to say was that even with a better O line, Jimmy or any QB is going to get hit. I'm all for improving the line. In fact I have stated before that if I was building a team I would start with the O line, then the D line and then add the skill positions. I've always felt that if you're strong in the trenches you give your skill guys a much better chance for success. Plus, O linemen tend to have longer careers than skill positions. But even with a good line the QB will need to get the ball out quickly. He'll need to be able to find the open guy when he's forced out of the pocket. Some people seem to think that adding a couple of O linemen will fix everything and keep Jimmy from getting sacked. It will help but he's still a sitting duck when the blocking breaks down. Make no mistake it will still break down. That's what the defensive guys get paid to do. As long as the league has guys like Donald, Watt and the Bosas no QB is safe.

I see. And I agree. Whether mobile or not, having skill positions that can get open under 2.5 seconds and a QB who can find/hit them is exactly what the foundation of a WCO is. They're certainly going to get hit though.

Kyle's system is different though than BW's. Bill used the pass to set up the run in the second half. Kyle uses the run to set up PA passing which is why he prefers run blocking OL first and foremost.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, they once got rid of their really good OL and built it back up. To NY's point, they have a new scheme now that also helps and Baker and the OL are getting more and more comfortable in it and in playing off each other.

That OL last night was without their top guard and RT for most of the game.

They're a run first team much like SF...getting up 21-0 just helps with everything. Play book opens up, run game is flowing, baker can move enough to help everyone etc etc.

They have a good OL spent cash/picks on center/OTs much like we have. Sf needs to get a good center.

Bingo!

Yep. Been saying this all year.

C RG and teach MM how to pass block

This unit better step it's game up in order to block for Watson.

Originally posted by pdizo916:
This unit better step it's game up in order to block for Watson.

I'm praying for that!

Originally posted by pdizo916:

This unit better step it's game up in order to block for Watson.

That's another reason to trade for Watson, he has an idea of how to evade a pass rush.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, they once got rid of their really good OL and built it back up. To NY's point, they have a new scheme now that also helps and Baker and the OL are getting more and more comfortable in it and in playing off each other.

What I was trying to say was that even with a better O line, Jimmy or any QB is going to get hit. I'm all for improving the line. In fact I have stated before that if I was building a team I would start with the O line, then the D line and then add the skill positions. I've always felt that if you're strong in the trenches you give your skill guys a much better chance for success. Plus, O linemen tend to have longer careers than skill positions. But even with a good line the QB will need to get the ball out quickly. He'll need to be able to find the open guy when he's forced out of the pocket. Some people seem to think that adding a couple of O linemen will fix everything and keep Jimmy from getting sacked. It will help but he's still a sitting duck when the blocking breaks down. Make no mistake it will still break down. That's what the defensive guys get paid to do. As long as the league has guys like Donald, Watt and the Bosas no QB is safe.

I kind of agree with NY85 that you don't need 5 hall-of-fame talent level kind of players to make a decent OLine, having said that, I do agree with NC that certain positions on that OLine are critical. I think number one would be Left Tackle and that's why signing Trent Williams should be a priority. A Left Tackle (if the QB is right handed) *has* to be a hall-of-fame level of talent in my opinion. (visa-versa if the QB is left handed)

As for the rest of the positions, I think Center would be the 2nd position I would spend some draft capital on. I'd like that center to be able to handle most (if not all) Nose and DT's on their own without help. If you can get one-on-one with the center of the defense and move that defensive center left, backwards or right, it strategically gives the offense a lot of options. The play action pass becomes much more potent because regular dive and trap plays will enable a decent RB (like a Wilson or Mostert) to explode past the LB corps into the secondary in a frighteningly fast manner with Kyle's schemes. Defenses have to move their linebackers closer to the center of the field and that opens up flair out passes by the RB, and outside zone runs, and deep play passes down the middle because the safties and middle line backers are much closer to the LOS.

The rest of the positions, I think you can get buy with decent talent, but not below average talent.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I kind of agree with NY85 that you don't need 5 hall-of-fame talent level kind of players to make a decent OLine, having said that, I do agree with NC that certain positions on that OLine are critical. I think number one would be Left Tackle and that's why signing Trent Williams should be a priority. A Left Tackle (if the QB is right handed) *has* to be a hall-of-fame level of talent in my opinion. (visa-versa if the QB is left handed)

As for the rest of the positions, I think Center would be the 2nd position I would spend some draft capital on. I'd like that center to be able to handle most (if not all) Nose and DT's on their own without help. If you can get one-on-one with the center of the defense and move that defensive center left, backwards or right, it strategically gives the offense a lot of options. The play action pass becomes much more potent because regular dive and trap plays will enable a decent RB (like a Wilson or Mostert) to explode past the LB corps into the secondary in a frighteningly fast manner with Kyle's schemes. Defenses have to move their linebackers closer to the center of the field and that opens up flair out passes by the RB, and outside zone runs, and deep play passes down the middle because the safties and middle line backers are much closer to the LOS.

The rest of the positions, I think you can get buy with decent talent, but not below average talent.

Good post Giedi. I just want to say those of use who are more pro-OL, the argument has never ever been you need and All Pro OL to win. I'm willing to have the 2019 line with just a couple of slight changes - a starting center and a little bit better play from RG. Asking for this seems to be a lightning rod around here for whatever reason. We know what Jimmy can do when he get performance from his OL in both running game and decent/reliable pass protection. Consider what we were able to get away with in 2019 with a championship run - we didn't have one receiver outside of TE that was over 1000 yards. Our best receiver on the team was a trade acquisition towards the middle of year. Now that we're starting to settle with receiving talent and we have an established TE and we know what we can do in the running game.

Acquire a C via trade - a vet that's not on anyone's radar.
Draft a RG 4 round.

Agree. I think Jimmy is still a good QB that can get this team to the big dance. His injuries are a concern, but when he's healthy - he's a super bowl level QB. I think an offense, to be a super bowl level offense, has to have a good TE but not terribly elite (John Frank, Brent Jones, Rus Francis) and we do have an elite TE, with Kittle. Then you have to have two good WR's, preferably all pros to draw attention away from the TE. Finally you need a good rushing attack to offset teams with great pass rushes in the playoffs.

This year, when Deebo was healthy, Aiyuk was hurt, and visa-versa there wasn't really any consistency and talent at the other positions. Bourne is a good WR, but he doesn't dominate defenses the way elite WR's can do. The Pettis pick really hurt us long term, thank god he's no longer with the team.

I know the Alabama center has an injury history, but I would take him if he slides back to the 3rd round. The guy's a real stud and a real leader. I loved the way he lobbied to get on the field at the end of the game last night even with the torn ACL. I don't know if he'll slide back that far.

This has been a massive problem just like last year until we got Emmanuel Sanders and he, Deebo, and Kittle remained healthy for a stretch of key games.

Kyle/Garoppolo just can't get ANY continuity with this group. And don't forget Reed either in this OR the Arby combination.


This team is just so brittle.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I know the Alabama center has an injury history, but I would take him if he slides back to the 3rd round. The guy's a real stud and a real leader. I loved the way he lobbied to get on the field at the end of the game last night even with the torn ACL. I don't know if he'll slide back that far.

Agree the guy has what it takes.

However, I'm VERY apprehensive about guys w/injuries.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, they once got rid of their really good OL and built it back up. To NY's point, they have a new scheme now that also helps and Baker and the OL are getting more and more comfortable in it and in playing off each other.

That OL last night was without their top guard and RT for most of the game.

They're a run first team much like SF...getting up 21-0 just helps with everything. Play book opens up, run game is flowing, baker can move enough to help everyone etc etc.

They have a good OL spent cash/picks on center/OTs much like we have. Sf needs to get a good center.

It was and they still held the Steelers to their lowest pressure rate of the year but like you said, getting up early certainly helps reduce that number significantly because they can pass less.

It all plays a part

Originally posted by NCommand:

This has been a massive problem just like last year until we got Emmanuel Sanders and he, Deebo, and Kittle remained healthy for a stretch of key games.

Kyle/Garoppolo just can't get ANY continuity with this group. And don't forget Reed either in this OR the Arby combination.

49ers saw their primary receiving trio — George Kittle, Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk — on the field at the same time for only four games this season, the stretch between Weeks 4-7. They're looking at a markedly better offense in 2021 just if those guys stay simultaneously healthy

— David Lombardi (@LombardiHimself) January 12, 2021

This team is just so brittle.

Agree, and if they can get depth at the DE/pass rusher position, (easier said than done) I think that would go a long way to keeping the team healthier.

Playing on artificial turf is where I think our key players got injured (bosa). I'm thinking if the team plays on artificial turf, they need to modify their schemes to take into account injury potential. Less east-west and more north south on offense. And on defense maybe less stunts and more blitzes. Ie you don't want DLinemen crossing paths on astro-turf for example where they have to plant and turn on stunts.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, they once got rid of their really good OL and built it back up. To NY's point, they have a new scheme now that also helps and Baker and the OL are getting more and more comfortable in it and in playing off each other.

That OL last night was without their top guard and RT for most of the game.

They're a run first team much like SF...getting up 21-0 just helps with everything. Play book opens up, run game is flowing, baker can move enough to help everyone etc etc.

They have a good OL spent cash/picks on center/OTs much like we have. Sf needs to get a good center.

It was and they still held the Steelers to their lowest pressure rate of the year but like you said, getting up early certainly helps reduce that number significantly because they can pass less.

Another reminder that the QB affects pressure rates, positively and negatively, in very real ways. https://t.co/S1WrZ2hQd9

— Oscar Aparicio (@BetterRivals) January 13, 2021

It all plays a part

Absolutely. Throw in 2.34 seconds (first read) or run. Basically, the HaRoman Kaepernick offense. That can certainly be effective in reducing hits and sacks.