49ers Offensive Line

I've been a proponent of the offensive line since the beginning. And it is easy to say that the 49ers should build an offensive line. Ok great.

But philosophically speaking, they still prioritize linemen who are great run blockers, and mediocre at pass protection because Shanahan wants to run his ZBS. It requires smaller and athletic guys who are more finesse and can't hold up against big DTs.

How exactly is that going to help Garoppolo in 2021?

If you want to say they should build an offensive line that can pass protect really well and can hold up against Chris Jones, etc. Then you must first ask yourself, does this head coach even have the flexibility to do that? Or does he just want to run his scheme because he believes in it.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Lol. Exactly what I talked about in the Jimmy thread with catch. He said, "Jimmy didn't get pressured til the 4th quarter".

When mahomes gets that pressure, "he still made a heroic effort!"
Jimmy: ☝

The difference is Jimmy was helpless under that pressure. Mahomes was at least able to roll out and make a few little plays despite the pressure. That's what being mobile can do. It wasn't enough to win the game but it kept him alive. Jimmy was 18-22 in the first 3 quarters. Then it all crumbled. Imagine his numbers if he was under that pressure that TB was putting on all day. The running game helped a lot in those first 3 quarters and kept them from rushing the passer as much. At the end, KC just decided that they couldn't worry about the run and needed to pressure JG so they could get the ball back.

It certainly kept a lot of plays alive (many unnecessary ghost pressure plays too) but it almost got him seriously hurt too. He was reduced to a one-read scrambling college QB. Fun. Entertaining. Backyard. Memorable. Low %. Hurt.

Exaxtly. If anything, catch is proving my point. Even with Mahomes being great at escaping that pressure multiple occasions, the team was barely able to score. Even if Jimmy pulls that Mahomes in the 4th quarter and gets a lone FG from all the heroics, we still lose.

This whole thing is that thr argument that a mobile qb will fix our problems and take us to a SB victory is preposterous.

We need to fix the OL.

If you agree then quit making the lazy a$$ excuse that we need a mobile qb to hide our OL. It just isn't going to work that way.

You can love or hate Jimmy or feel in between, but please, for the love of Mike(pick which one) let's quit saying a mobile qb will be the magic sauce.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Exaxtly. If anything, catch is proving my point. Even with Mahomes being great at escaping that pressure multiple occasions, the team was barely able to score. Even if Jimmy pulls that Mahomes in the 4th quarter and gets a lone FG from all the heroics, we still lose.

This whole thing is that thr argument that a mobile qb will fix our problems and take us to a SB victory is preposterous.

We need to fix the OL.

If you agree then quit making the lazy a$$ excuse that we need a mobile qb to hide our OL. It just isn't going to work that way.

You can love or hate Jimmy or feel in between, but please, for the love of Mike(pick which one) let's quit saying a mobile qb will be the magic sauce.

Absolutely
tell them J-Del

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
I've been a proponent of the offensive line since the beginning. And it is easy to say that the 49ers should build an offensive line. Ok great.

But philosophically speaking, they still prioritize linemen who are great run blockers, and mediocre at pass protection because Shanahan wants to run his ZBS. It requires smaller and athletic guys who are more finesse and can't hold up against big DTs.

How exactly is that going to help Garoppolo in 2021?

If you want to say they should build an offensive line that can pass protect really well and can hold up against Chris Jones, etc. Then you must first ask yourself, does this head coach even have the flexibility to do that? Or does he just want to run his scheme because he believes in it.

The 2 aren't always mutually exclusive. We have to prioritize the positions. Randy Cross was a great scheme fit and could run and pass block, Derrick Deese was a beast, Jeremy Newberry was awesome until his ankles blew up like soviet rockets.

Surely we can find a better RG and either Richburg takes a pay cut and stays healthy or we find a new center cause rolling with 3rd and 4th string centers just isn't gonna cut it.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Lol. Exactly what I talked about in the Jimmy thread with catch. He said, "Jimmy didn't get pressured til the 4th quarter".

When mahomes gets that pressure, "he still made a heroic effort!"
Jimmy: ☝

The difference is Jimmy was helpless under that pressure. Mahomes was at least able to roll out and make a few little plays despite the pressure. That's what being mobile can do. It wasn't enough to win the game but it kept him alive. Jimmy was 18-22 in the first 3 quarters. Then it all crumbled. Imagine his numbers if he was under that pressure that TB was putting on all day. The running game helped a lot in those first 3 quarters and kept them from rushing the passer as much. At the end, KC just decided that they couldn't worry about the run and needed to pressure JG so they could get the ball back.

It certainly kept a lot of plays alive (many unnecessary ghost pressure plays too) but it almost got him seriously hurt too. He was reduced to a one-read scrambling college QB. Fun. Entertaining. Backyard. Memorable. Low %. Hurt.

Exaxtly. If anything, catch is proving my point. Even with Mahomes being great at escaping that pressure multiple occasions, the team was barely able to score. Even if Jimmy pulls that Mahomes in the 4th quarter and gets a lone FG from all the heroics, we still lose.

This whole thing is that thr argument that a mobile qb will fix our problems and take us to a SB victory is preposterous.

We need to fix the OL.

If you agree then quit making the lazy a$$ excuse that we need a mobile qb to hide our OL. It just isn't going to work that way.

You can love or hate Jimmy or feel in between, but please, for the love of Mike(pick which one) let's quit saying a mobile qb will be the magic sauce.

For fun discussion convo..

So you wouldn't take mahomes on our team?

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Exaxtly. If anything, catch is proving my point. Even with Mahomes being great at escaping that pressure multiple occasions, the team was barely able to score. Even if Jimmy pulls that Mahomes in the 4th quarter and gets a lone FG from all the heroics, we still lose.

This whole thing is that thr argument that a mobile qb will fix our problems and take us to a SB victory is preposterous.

We need to fix the OL.

If you agree then quit making the lazy a$$ excuse that we need a mobile qb to hide our OL. It just isn't going to work that way.

You can love or hate Jimmy or feel in between, but please, for the love of Mike(pick which one) let's quit saying a mobile qb will be the magic sauce.

Preach!

As mentioned elsewhere I believe a mobile QB helps you scheme and mask deficiencies with your o-line vs a pocket passer. Although guys like JG with a quick release help as well.

KC had the perfect storm. Decimated line and Mahomes wasn't at 100% mobility. It was nasty last night, but imo there was nothing he could do as the line was THAT bad.

In the end we want as great a QB possible behind as good an o-line as possible. Since the QB is truly roulette it makes sense to throw talent at the o-line much in the same way they have the d-line. If they love a QB in round one they should make it happen otherwise I demand a few o-lineman drafted regardless!

Keeping Trent Williams is the only thing they should care about right now.

Re-sign TW, Release Richburg and sign Mack. And use the #12 pick on the Oline. If Niners can't re-sign Verrett use that pick on a CB and the 2nd RD pick on a Lineman.

Mack is probably gonna cost a lot, I am warming up to the idea of Richburg+Ford taking HUGE pay cuts for the 2021 season. It would save us a lot of money to keep guys like T. Williams and others, while also giving us good players trying to shrug off their injury woes.
If Richburg+Ford basically cut their base salaries down to a couple million each then we save the money, and they keep the rest of their contract (potentially) on our books going forward. If those guys are injured again, or play like crap, then we can still cut them and get savings going forward. How ever if Ford+Richburg play strong in 2021, then we might actually keep them for the next year of their contracts at their normal rate, or we might actually look to trade them in the off season.
I still think we need to draft a C, Edge, and CB with our first 3 picks in the draft, the order is on who is there when we're picking.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
I've been a proponent of the offensive line since the beginning. And it is easy to say that the 49ers should build an offensive line. Ok great.

But philosophically speaking, they still prioritize linemen who are great run blockers, and mediocre at pass protection because Shanahan wants to run his ZBS. It requires smaller and athletic guys who are more finesse and can't hold up against big DTs.

How exactly is that going to help Garoppolo in 2021?

If you want to say they should build an offensive line that can pass protect really well and can hold up against Chris Jones, etc. Then you must first ask yourself, does this head coach even have the flexibility to do that? Or does he just want to run his scheme because he believes in it.

The 2 aren't always mutually exclusive. We have to prioritize the positions. Randy Cross was a great scheme fit and could run and pass block, Derrick Deese was a beast, Jeremy Newberry was awesome until his ankles blew up like soviet rockets.

Surely we can find a better RG and either Richburg takes a pay cut and stays healthy or we find a new center cause rolling with 3rd and 4th string centers just isn't gonna cut it.

Agree, and it doesn't help that the coach abandons the run game in the closing moments of a game. My point being that the zone run scheme actually is a complementary to the pass protection schemes because in pass protection against stunts the OLine has to pass their man to the next guy with a better angle block. Same principle with the zone run.

Zone run schemes have won super bowls before. Its not the scheme, its the personnel playing in the scheme. Key is to get better personnel.

just gonna leave this right here.... 2 games in which the 49ers offensive line was even worse than what we just watched on Sunday that speaks volumes.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Exaxtly. If anything, catch is proving my point. Even with Mahomes being great at escaping that pressure multiple occasions, the team was barely able to score. Even if Jimmy pulls that Mahomes in the 4th quarter and gets a lone FG from all the heroics, we still lose.

This whole thing is that thr argument that a mobile qb will fix our problems and take us to a SB victory is preposterous.

We need to fix the OL.

If you agree then quit making the lazy a$$ excuse that we need a mobile qb to hide our OL. It just isn't going to work that way.

You can love or hate Jimmy or feel in between, but please, for the love of Mike(pick which one) let's quit saying a mobile qb will be the magic sauce.

Preach!

As mentioned elsewhere I believe a mobile QB helps you scheme and mask deficiencies with your o-line vs a pocket passer. Although guys like JG with a quick release help as well.

KC had the perfect storm. Decimated line and Mahomes wasn't at 100% mobility. It was nasty last night, but imo there was nothing he could do as the line was THAT bad.

In the end we want as great a QB possible behind as good an o-line as possible. Since the QB is truly roulette it makes sense to throw talent at the o-line much in the same way they have the d-line. If they love a QB in round one they should make it happen otherwise I demand a few o-lineman drafted regardless!

Keeping Trent Williams is the only thing they should care about right now.

Agree about Trent Williams and if they trade down the #12 pick and get two first rounders late and get an OLineman and DLineman, I would not be upset. However I'd still like them to use the #12 pick for a talented mobile QB that can back up Jimmy. ShanaLynch can use the excuse of being worried about Jimmys durability and not about them drafting a QB to replace him, although that's the idead if he keeps getting injured. Its a good QB crop and I think they should go BPA and if its a QB that is BPA - pull the trigger on a QB. There are several 5th round picks that they can use for OLinemen in addition to their 2,3,and 4th round draft picks.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yup. Mahomes would look like that every Sunday behind our pass protection. We would have ruined him. I guess a "transcendent QB" can't overcompensate for poor pass protection. Odd. Especially with all the examples of transcendent QB's getting smoked in Superbowls from Brady himself to Mahomes (whispers Garoppolo too).

KC got a taste of what happens when you have to shift everyone because of injuries. Turns out NO ONE in the league has the depth to overcome that, which was one of the major points being made in this thread.

9ers are 13-3 with Mahomes at the helm even with this O line. Again PFF had this line in the top 10, not because it's great, but because NO ONE has any pass protection consistency throughout the NFL except for a few teams. And even those teams have no depth as exhibited on Sunday. But as NY stated a better qb can instantly transform pass protection as the Brady stat evidenced. Not to say they shouldn't draft lineman this year because they absolutely should. This is the year to get the day 2 prospects.

I agree with Lombardi85 when he says why not upgrade *both* QB and OLine. I think they have the draft ammo to do both. Kyle has the RB position locked in. He has 3 fifth round picks and a high number 12 pick. On top of that, this years free agency is for teams with cap space, and we have a decent amount available (AB81 says so). First round QB 2nd round Edge rusher and 3rd round OLineman and with the lucky 5th rounder picks, choose three hall of fame players!

Giedi, we see pretty much the same on most issues. Going QB 1st (at 12 or wherever we go down or up to) would be where I would get either a top flite Center or OG/C. Problem with that tho is Kyle isn't going OL in rd 1. That's why i would like to see us drop back into uppper 20s and get another 2nd plus draft that OG/C or Center. Almost surely it has to be a Center as KYle just doesn't spend on OGs.

Then with extra 2nd pick up a QB there (IF, IF kyle thinks he can work with him and make him something special). If not get a qB later. Or own 2nd rd pick DE, unless a starter C could be gotten with out 2nd pick and we take DE later in rd 1. A lot has to do with BPA in all case scenarios. My real hope tho, is to pick up Mack at C....if his Medical is clean. I'd still get a C or OG/C in rd 3 plus a starter OG in first 3 rds.

Jimmy is the guy, but HEALTH is THE issue. As has been said many times if you aren't available, you can't help us. Cases in point: Richburg, Dee, Hurd, Pettis. And two of those we have way too much $$ wasted , while the other two were both moved up for (draft capital loss). Granted, it's impossible to know this stuff ahead of time but with Richburg at least and Dee a tiny bit, some evidence was there. Hurd we knew about and Pettis was just a shocker....same goes for McK...total waste...but good intentions by F.O.

Re: getting 1st rd talent at QB at #12 is , well....Mahomes was picked at #12 i believe. It doesnt' have to be Lawrence....but it does have to be someone with real QB talent who kyle can work with. If jimmy comes up gimp again this yr...ok...i am out. But if he recovers and we fix the OL with a starting C and OG in first 3 rds, i prefer that route.

One thing about kyle and QBs, tho...he seems not to have the same crystal ball he does for RBs and TEs. Hoyer, Kirk, CJ, and unfortunately Mullie, altho he did have 8 games where he looked good. But that No- OL business, wiped Mullie and CJ out...and Hoyer was a mistake from the get go.

Like you said, who, after Brady is better amongst QBs in their 30s? So count on him to be healthy altho i have to admit the health thing is a sticky wicket.

I think the Rosen signing might indicate that ShanaLynch isn't going to draft a QB at the # 12 spot. Maybe later at the 5th round (maybe we get another hall of fame QB at that spot)

As for OLine, if they pick a center at #12, I'd still be happy too. I think NC's pet peeve about OLine pass protections can be solved with a talented Center calling out the correct pass protections and also being able to handle one-on-one the Aron Donalds and Chris Jones of the NFL.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want a more mobile qb and upgraded oline. I'm lost on the idea that's it's one or the other

Originally posted by JTB1974:
Re-sign TW, Release Richburg and sign Mack. And use the #12 pick on the Oline. If Niners can't re-sign Verrett use that pick on a CB and the 2nd RD pick on a Lineman.

This