49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:
Draft history for OL taken by the Hawks in first 3 rounds under Pete :

2020 : OG in R3
2017 : OC in R2
2016: G/T in R1
2016 : OG in R3
2014 : OT in R2
2011 : OT in R1
2011 : OG in R3
2010 : OT in R1

Outside of the first 3 rounds they took 9 other OL. They also traded a slot corner, a first and a second for Duane Brown. And we haven't touched FA.

Without going in depth on each player, a quick take IMO gives the appearance of an issue with scouting/drafting OL in Seattle.

You nailed it!

You would have had to check into a mental health clinic if that was us.

Originally posted by elguapo:
Great recon evil. I didn't even know that, that's on them.

Thanks.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by evil:
Draft history for OL taken by the Hawks in first 3 rounds under Pete :

2020 : OG in R3
2017 : OC in R2
2016: G/T in R1
2016 : OG in R3
2014 : OT in R2
2011 : OT in R1
2011 : OG in R3
2010 : OT in R1

Outside of the first 3 rounds they took 9 other OL. They also traded a slot corner, a first and a second for Duane Brown. And we haven't touched FA.

Without going in depth on each player, a quick take IMO gives the appearance of an issue with scouting/drafting OL in Seattle.

Telling.

Cheat Carroll is a defensive coach, it makes sense that his offensive line sucks.

Originally posted by evil:
You would have had to check into a mental health clinic if that was us.

So true.

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
You still dont seem to grasp that having a mobile QB and a competent OL are not mutually exclusive. And if you do, I have no idea why you continue to post as if they are.

Correct. In fact, a mobile QB doesn't have to be mobile if he's got adequate protection (Steve Young in his later years of mastering the WCO). You should strive to have both or a pocket passer with excellent pocket feel and high football IQ.

Wilson is just another example of a supreme athlete that can't transcend poor pass protection. He's had enough.

I also feel like part of this is because Wilson and the Seahawks are overly enamored with the big play rather than the right play (right play probably isn't the correct term that I really want to use) or a good enough play, so there's been too many instances of Wilson abandoning clean pockets and initiating a scramble drill when it was unnecessary

Very true. Steve Young talks at length about how he didn't become a QB until he learned to trust everything else first over his feet.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. From the most scrambly of scramblers scrambling for pass protection. LOL

Russell Wilson:

"I'm frustrated with getting hit too much."

— Joe Fann (@Joe_Fann) February 9, 2021

Partly his fault for holding on the ball too long. Its been a constant throughout his career. The same thing that allows him to make huge off schedule throws deep down the field when everything else breaks down also leads to him taking a hell of a lot of extra hits. As he gets older he needs to learn to be quicker to throw it away and come back and play another down.

Wilson has had some lousy OL's during his time in Seattle but no quarterback in football does more to make his OL look worse than Wilson does.

PFF charted Russell Wilson with 14 sacks that were his fault this season

t-2nd most in the NFL pic.twitter.com/dgS1WjxzIK

— PFF Fantasy Football (@PFF_Fantasy) February 9, 2021

Wilson has been charged with being responsible for 104 sacks in his career by @PFF https://t.co/dsmF3SrYuo

— Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) February 9, 2021

Wilson is stylistically a QB that invites a lot of pressure even beyond what his OL creates.

He loves dropping beyond the pocket and buying himself time and space to find a deep pass.

He is responsible for a much greater % of his pressure+hits than other QBs

— Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) February 9, 2021

So while it's fair for him to be tired of getting hit, he controls that way more than drafting an All-Pro guard would.

— Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) February 9, 2021

You can't. But that's not really the point.

The point is that how a QB plays the game affects how his OL looks.

Brees makes his look better, Wilson makes his look worse.

You can argue whether it's worth it and a bunch of other things, but that part is a starting reality.

— Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) February 9, 2021

Really well outlayed, Phoenix. I couldn't agree more. Wilson has even talked about how much they practice the scramble drill. It's damn near become their offense...pressure or not. And like Jeff Garcia and early Steve Young, OL would get publicly pissed because they didn't know which way to block for that kind of QB.

Yeah.I was having the same thoughts in regard to Wilson.

How many times have we seen the Hawks down by 10+ points, Wilson gets the snap, looks for his first read which isn't there then immediately goes into scramble, backyard football. They count on it to get out of jams, but he's getting older and it's not always working like it used to.

Many of the sacks he's taken are definitely on him. He doesn't manipulate and move around in the pocket. He scrambles around but he's getting too slow and defenders are getting too athletic for him to make it work each time.

Originally posted by Antix:
Yeah.I was having the same thoughts in regard to Wilson.

How many times have we seen the Hawks down by 10+ points, Wilson gets the snap, looks for his first read which isn't there then immediately goes into scramble, backyard football. They count on it to get out of jams, but he's getting older and it's not always working like it used to.

Many of the sacks he's taken are definitely on him. He doesn't manipulate and move around in the pocket. He scrambles around but he's getting too slow and defenders are getting too athletic for him to make it work each time.

To me it didn't even look like he was looking at his first read but waiting for the first guy to get passed the OL and scramble to the open area behind that same DL so he can see the field better

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Antix:
Yeah.I was having the same thoughts in regard to Wilson.

How many times have we seen the Hawks down by 10+ points, Wilson gets the snap, looks for his first read which isn't there then immediately goes into scramble, backyard football. They count on it to get out of jams, but he's getting older and it's not always working like it used to.

Many of the sacks he's taken are definitely on him. He doesn't manipulate and move around in the pocket. He scrambles around but he's getting too slow and defenders are getting too athletic for him to make it work each time.

To me it didn't even look like he was looking at his first read but waiting for the first guy to get passed the OL and scramble to the open area behind that same DL so he can see the field better

Probably true most of the time. Im kind of giving him the benefit of the doubt there. I'm sure plenty of times he doesn't even really even care about his read. He just does that annoying little juke move then starts running around

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Antix:
Yeah.I was having the same thoughts in regard to Wilson.

How many times have we seen the Hawks down by 10+ points, Wilson gets the snap, looks for his first read which isn't there then immediately goes into scramble, backyard football. They count on it to get out of jams, but he's getting older and it's not always working like it used to.

Many of the sacks he's taken are definitely on him. He doesn't manipulate and move around in the pocket. He scrambles around but he's getting too slow and defenders are getting too athletic for him to make it work each time.

To me it didn't even look like he was looking at his first read but waiting for the first guy to get passed the OL and scramble to the open area behind that same DL so he can see the field better

Great observation.

The more he worries about hits the more he causes himself to get hit?

Originally posted by NinerGM:
elguapo and evil (thanks for the OP ) -

This is my greatest fear for OL and if I could show a anecdotal mirror for the 49ers, it would be WR. Investment means nothing if it's not the correct one for your team AND you don't use the benefit of the investment properly

And because the OL has been so bad for so long in Seattle along, has Wilson hardwired scrambling as part of his QB play. I wonder if Brian Schottenheimer or any other OC or QB coach just gave up with trying to coach this out of him. Would Wilson work in other NFL systems? Randal Cunningham comes to mind and the knock on him.

Definitely a factor in all of this, 100%.

You are right about the wr mirroring as it pertains to the niners. I'm just glad we finally have 2 good wrs. All we need now is team health

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
elguapo and evil (thanks for the OP ) -

This is my greatest fear for OL and if I could show a anecdotal mirror for the 49ers, it would be WR. Investment means nothing if it's not the correct one for your team AND you don't use the benefit of the investment properly

And because the OL has been so bad for so long in Seattle along, has Wilson hardwired scrambling as part of his QB play. I wonder if Brian Schottenheimer or any other OC or QB coach just gave up with trying to coach this out of him. Would Wilson work in other NFL systems? Randal Cunningham comes to mind and the knock on him.

Definitely a factor in all of this, 100%.

You are right about the wr mirroring as it pertains to the niners. I'm just glad we finally have 2 good wrs. All we need now is team health

Great points. I call that the Blaine Gabbert-effect. Its classical conditioning. We saw that with all 3 QB's last year where their mechanics, timing, decision making, accuracy, eyes peering down at the pressure, etc. became effected even WHEN there wasn't pressure and they are way less mobile to accommodate for those bad habits. It becomes cyclical.

TBF, the highest attributed sacks per PFF was 5.7% and that was on BeatHard. Garoppolo remains at 1.2% which means it's all on the unit pass protection BUT the aforementioned effects are still present.

--------

In 2020, what % of the QB pressures were charged to the QB per PFF?:

BeatHard - 5.7% (186 snaps)
Mullens - 3% (603 snaps)
Garoppolo - 1.2% (305 snaps) / 2019 - 1.2% (1,079 snaps)

So the 49ers could have had frank ragnow at center and orlando brown jr. Instead they got mcglinchey and pettis.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
So the 49ers could have had frank ragnow at center and orlando brown jr. Instead they got mcglinchey and pettis.

Looks like Brown could be a possibility. He's looking to be traded.

How much of our OL issues are a result of Kyle's offense. There are times the plays seem to be long developing.

Originally posted by Joecool:
How much of our OL issues are a result of Kyle's offense. There are times the plays seem to be long developing.

I would say some. Every coach has plays that are long developing. But it's the o line's job to hold the f**k up. that's what they are paid to do. Now if' it's the 3rd qtr and the o line hasn't held up all game then I would think KS would adjust his gameplan accordingly. Like our gameplan versus the Rams. quick passes so Donald couldn't dominate. And sometimes a play might take longer to develop b/c the defense has sniffed it out. We have to give the other team and players credit. It's a mixture