49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
everyone else in the league looking at OLs as a whole:

Best OLs of 2020 per PFF WAR:
🔸 Patriots
🔸 Browns
🔸 Packers
🔸 49ers pic.twitter.com/lJVPQllaKN

— PFF (@PFF) February 15, 2021

SF fans:

Bwahahaha. So stupid. Weren't they top 10 like a month ago? Now top 4?

Anyone with an ounce of common sense:

PFF OL rankings are the worst thing about that site.

And pretty sure everyone knows our OL run blocks with the best of them. It's the pass blocking on the right side that was a serious issue but yes QB play absolutely plays a factor. Two wrongs don't make a right.

— G V (@gv49ers) February 15, 2021

Who's that random guy?

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I don't think you can ever have too many quality linemen. Just ask KC. One or two injuries and the season can fall apart.

I mean KC had 4 of their 5 starters either hurt or playing out of position. People can't objectively expect them to have quality starters just sitting on the bench and not contributing? I understand wanting good starters....but SF has been playing with depth guys all over the damn place this past season, including the most important position at QB.

QB needs to be fixed above all, center we need a legit starter that can stay healthy and they need another developmental IOL. Colton should battle that rookie at RG. I'd love Slater but I don't think he will be there.

Plenty of good depth prospects in the draft with upside.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I've posted similar comments in the past but I want to repeat that even the best O line isn't going to solve all of Jimmy's problems. The Niners run an offense not unlike many around the league. There are a lot of short passes mixed in with runs. Not a lot of really long throws (30 yards or more). The reason is obvious. The average time a QB has is about 2.7 seconds. Fifty-eight percent of all sacks happened between 2 and 3 seconds. That tells me that O lines are having trouble. Why?

Colleges mostly run option offenses that don't require O linemen to hold blocks very long. That doesn't mean thy can't learn in the NFL but they aren't coming out of college ready to be accomplished pass blockers. So what are teams doing? Throwing quick short passes. The average QB completion percentage is way higher than it was a few years ago. It used to be considered good to complete 63% of your passes. Now QBs are routinely completing 67-70%. It's not because they're better. It's because of the short patterns over the middle that are a higher % throw. The same kind Kyle likes. Having a mobile QB isn't going to change the offense much other than maybe an occasional option run. What it would do is but him more time when the blocking breaks down, and it will break down. When it doesn't, even the fastest QB is better off throwing from the pocket.

Having a mobile QB will absolutely change the offense. It's another weapon for Kyle. It dictates coverages, epically on 3rd downs. It actually helps some of these young OL that deal with these spread offenses and are use too having to PP for a mobile QB.

It's also more than being "mobile" it's having the ability to move in the pocket, feel pressure... when a QB doesn't move up in the pocket that's on him if he get's hit, not the OL. If he calls the wrong protection that's on him, not the OL. Same thing if he reads the coverage wrong and the play-call he audibled to doesn't work (ex WR doesn't get open blown play).

QBs gotta be able to move in todays game. You can't have heavy fit or be dancing around not knowing what you're gonna do. If the pockets resets then move with it. IMO it has nothing to do with being fast.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I don't think you can ever have too many quality linemen. Just ask KC. One or two injuries and the season can fall apart.

I mean KC had 4 of their 5 starters either hurt or playing out of position. People can't objectively expect them to have quality starters just sitting on the bench and not contributing?

LOL. Nearly everyone in the country still picked the Chiefs to win because Mahomes is so good he could transcend any OL.

Oops. It happened again.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I've posted similar comments in the past but I want to repeat that even the best O line isn't going to solve all of Jimmy's problems. The Niners run an offense not unlike many around the league. There are a lot of short passes mixed in with runs. Not a lot of really long throws (30 yards or more). The reason is obvious. The average time a QB has is about 2.7 seconds. Fifty-eight percent of all sacks happened between 2 and 3 seconds. That tells me that O lines are having trouble. Why?

Colleges mostly run option offenses that don't require O linemen to hold blocks very long. That doesn't mean thy can't learn in the NFL but they aren't coming out of college ready to be accomplished pass blockers. So what are teams doing? Throwing quick short passes. The average QB completion percentage is way higher than it was a few years ago. It used to be considered good to complete 63% of your passes. Now QBs are routinely completing 67-70%. It's not because they're better. It's because of the short patterns over the middle that are a higher % throw. The same kind Kyle likes. Having a mobile QB isn't going to change the offense much other than maybe an occasional option run. What it would do is but him more time when the blocking breaks down, and it will break down. When it doesn't, even the fastest QB is better off throwing from the pocket.

Having a mobile QB will absolutely change the offense. It's another weapon for Kyle. It dictates coverages, epically on 3rd downs. It actually helps some of these young OL that deal with these spread offenses and are use too having to PP for a mobile QB.

It's also more than being "mobile" it's having the ability to move in the pocket, feel pressure... when a QB doesn't move up in the pocket that's on him if he get's hit, not the OL. If he calls the wrong protection that's on him, not the OL. Same thing if he reads the coverage wrong and the play-call he audibled to doesn't work (ex WR doesn't get open blown play).

QBs gotta be able to move in todays game. You can't have heavy fit or be dancing around not knowing what you're gonna do. If the pockets resets then move with it. IMO it has nothing to do with being fast.

Yeah, fans are misinterpreting an "athletic QB" with a "QB with excellent pocket feel," IMHO.

Even in our history, the only time our coaches used Steve Young's athleticism was to punk Charles Haley in the NFCCG.

The ability to run and make off schedule throws is certainly a luxury.

The irony is that's pretty much all Garoppolo did his first 5 games here.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I've posted similar comments in the past but I want to repeat that even the best O line isn't going to solve all of Jimmy's problems. The Niners run an offense not unlike many around the league. There are a lot of short passes mixed in with runs. Not a lot of really long throws (30 yards or more). The reason is obvious. The average time a QB has is about 2.7 seconds. Fifty-eight percent of all sacks happened between 2 and 3 seconds. That tells me that O lines are having trouble. Why?

Colleges mostly run option offenses that don't require O linemen to hold blocks very long. That doesn't mean thy can't learn in the NFL but they aren't coming out of college ready to be accomplished pass blockers. So what are teams doing? Throwing quick short passes. The average QB completion percentage is way higher than it was a few years ago. It used to be considered good to complete 63% of your passes. Now QBs are routinely completing 67-70%. It's not because they're better. It's because of the short patterns over the middle that are a higher % throw. The same kind Kyle likes. Having a mobile QB isn't going to change the offense much other than maybe an occasional option run. What it would do is but him more time when the blocking breaks down, and it will break down. When it doesn't, even the fastest QB is better off throwing from the pocket.

Having a mobile QB will absolutely change the offense. It's another weapon for Kyle. It dictates coverages, epically on 3rd downs. It actually helps some of these young OL that deal with these spread offenses and are use too having to PP for a mobile QB.

It's also more than being "mobile" it's having the ability to move in the pocket, feel pressure... when a QB doesn't move up in the pocket that's on him if he get's hit, not the OL. If he calls the wrong protection that's on him, not the OL. Same thing if he reads the coverage wrong and the play-call he audibled to doesn't work (ex WR doesn't get open blown play).

QBs gotta be able to move in todays game. You can't have heavy fit or be dancing around not knowing what you're gonna do. If the pockets resets then move with it. IMO it has nothing to do with being fast.

A good quality center will solve (I would say) 70% to 80% of Jimmy's problems. If he can step up in the pocket, I think he can hit those longer range throws. As for mobility, again a pocket QB won the super bowl. I think the rules favor a mobile QB, but ultimately a *winning* QB is a passer not a runner. I think the only tweak I'd do for Jimmy's game is more of a three tight end set - it helps the run game, it will help Jimmy in the short passing game and play action. BUT, I think it requires better OLinemen than we have now. If the OLine can't road grade the DLine on first downs, those three tight end sets can't overcome 3rd and longs.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I've posted similar comments in the past but I want to repeat that even the best O line isn't going to solve all of Jimmy's problems. The Niners run an offense not unlike many around the league. There are a lot of short passes mixed in with runs. Not a lot of really long throws (30 yards or more). The reason is obvious. The average time a QB has is about 2.7 seconds. Fifty-eight percent of all sacks happened between 2 and 3 seconds. That tells me that O lines are having trouble. Why?

Colleges mostly run option offenses that don't require O linemen to hold blocks very long. That doesn't mean thy can't learn in the NFL but they aren't coming out of college ready to be accomplished pass blockers. So what are teams doing? Throwing quick short passes. The average QB completion percentage is way higher than it was a few years ago. It used to be considered good to complete 63% of your passes. Now QBs are routinely completing 67-70%. It's not because they're better. It's because of the short patterns over the middle that are a higher % throw. The same kind Kyle likes. Having a mobile QB isn't going to change the offense much other than maybe an occasional option run. What it would do is but him more time when the blocking breaks down, and it will break down. When it doesn't, even the fastest QB is better off throwing from the pocket.

Having a mobile QB will absolutely change the offense. It's another weapon for Kyle. It dictates coverages, epically on 3rd downs. It actually helps some of these young OL that deal with these spread offenses and are use too having to PP for a mobile QB.

It's also more than being "mobile" it's having the ability to move in the pocket, feel pressure... when a QB doesn't move up in the pocket that's on him if he get's hit, not the OL. If he calls the wrong protection that's on him, not the OL. Same thing if he reads the coverage wrong and the play-call he audibled to doesn't work (ex WR doesn't get open blown play).

QBs gotta be able to move in todays game. You can't have heavy fit or be dancing around not knowing what you're gonna do. If the pockets resets then move with it. IMO it has nothing to do with being fast.

Yeah, fans are misinterpreting an "athletic QB" with a "QB with excellent pocket feel," IMHO.

Even in our history, the only time our coaches used Steve Young's athleticism was to punk Charles Haley in the NFCCG.

The ability to run and make off schedule throws is certainly a luxury.

The irony is that's pretty much all Garoppolo did his first 5 games here.

Agree. Steve Young took 6 years to develop though. Will it take a Trey Lance guy 6 years or one year (Like Mahomes) to develop? I prefer a mobile QB operating Kyle's schemes. I think a mobile QB can make Kyle's boot pass concepts to the next level. Having said that, I think Jimmy is still a good match for Kyle's system and I think a young mobile QB sitting behind him will force Jimmy to take better care of his health, or he'll lose his job if he gets more ankle injuries.

It's interesting that Kyle's signed Rosen though. Maybe Kyle (having seen Tom beat another mobile QB) is sticking to the pocket passer QB that he prefers.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
You can't take rankings seriously during the offseason sometimes. I always say stats should better inform/add detail to your world and on a basic level pass the eye test. It's like have a ranking of Top 5 Brightest Bodies in the Solar System and the sun gets honorable mention at #6..

LMAO!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
everyone else in the league looking at OLs as a whole:

Best OLs of 2020 per PFF WAR:
🔸 Patriots
🔸 Browns
🔸 Packers
🔸 49ers pic.twitter.com/lJVPQllaKN

— PFF (@PFF) February 15, 2021

SF fans:

Bwahahaha. So stupid. Weren't they top 10 like a month ago? Now top 4?

Anyone with an ounce of common sense:

PFF OL rankings are the worst thing about that site.

And pretty sure everyone knows our OL run blocks with the best of them. It's the pass blocking on the right side that was a serious issue but yes QB play absolutely plays a factor. Two wrongs don't make a right.

— G V (@gv49ers) February 15, 2021

Who's that random guy?

That's hilarious. Absolutely the most atrocious rating. Calls into question their fundamental credibility. Despite shanny very conservztive playcalling we were still the very bottom of qb hits and I think bottom third in sacks. Come on. Watching our right side get ragdolled against good not great pass rushers was an abomination. This is a serious inside bribe job that someone is doing. there's no other explanation.

Signing Williams and Mack will be a start.

Originally posted by mayo49:
Signing Williams and Mack will be a start.

Originally posted by mayo49:
Signing Williams and Mack will be a start.

Maybe Wyatt Davis in the 2nd if we get Watson and don't use that pick. I think a line of Williams, Tomlinson, Mack, Davis and McGlinchey would be awesome.

Originally posted by philgardis49:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Signing Williams and Mack will be a start.

Maybe Wyatt Davis in the 2nd if we get Watson and don't use that pick. I think a line of Williams, Tomlinson, Mack, Davis and McGlinchey would be awesome.

That would be a nice Oline.

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. Nearly everyone in the country still picked the Chiefs to win because Mahomes is so good he could transcend any OL.

Oops. It happened again.

And his WRs dropped 3 TDs still lol. It's funny you've brought up PPWR in here a lot and the KC OL had a 67% PPWR

Maybe that's another stat that needs to be reevaluated before we continue to use it.

and happened again SF lost for a multiple of reasons, the OL was not the main one.

Originally posted by Giedi:
A good quality center will solve (I would say) 70% to 80% of Jimmy's problems. If he can step up in the pocket, I think he can hit those longer range throws. As for mobility, again a pocket QB won the super bowl. I think the rules favor a mobile QB, but ultimately a *winning* QB is a passer not a runner. I think the only tweak I'd do for Jimmy's game is more of a three tight end set - it helps the run game, it will help Jimmy in the short passing game and play action. BUT, I think it requires better OLinemen than we have now. If the OLine can't road grade the DLine on first downs, those three tight end sets can't overcome 3rd and longs.

That pocket QB was Tom Brady lol. Don't forget to throw that into the equation. Jimmy is NOT tom Brady. He does NOT see the field like Brady does. He can't read defenses like him. Brady was basically the OC.

When a QB can't feel pressure properly it doesn't matter. You simply can't expect an OL to hold up blocks all game long. You need explosive plays because dinking and dunking requires everything to be perfect for long periods of time.

Tampa did their thing BUT IMO it was more the defense then Tommy being a magician in the pocket. That game went about as well as it possibly could have for them.

I don't get why it has to be one thing or the other in this thread...both can be true. Better QB play, being able to extend plays AND having at the very least startable lineman who can stay on the field are all important to scoring pts.