49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:
I keep seeing this one.

One move the 49ers can make to open up salary-cap space: An extension for LG Laken Tomlinson, who's entering the final year of his contract.

75 has proven to be one of the team's most durable players. Team already converted $1.7M of his 2020 salary to bonus to open up 2020 room

— David Lombardi (@LombardiHimself) February 12, 2021

I have the 49ers extending Laken to a 4-year deal, worth $22M($5.5M APY), he lowers his base salary to the minimum of $1.075M, creates a $3.425M signing bonus, creates $2.74M in cap room, win-win IMO, extra cap space, Laken gets a new deal/security, good LG, extend him @49ers

— Jason Hurley/49ers 2021 Cap Room=$18,336,419 (@Jay_AB81) February 16, 2021

Originally posted by NCommand:
Only 3 T's blew more blocks than McGlinchey and here's Tomlinson every year saying, "Hold my beer."

Only five guards blew more blocks than Laken Tomlinson last season.

— Grant Cohn (@grantcohn) February 16, 2021

Jonah Jackson, Damien Lewis, Sam Tevi, Dan Feeney, Forrest Lamp.

— Grant Cohn (@grantcohn) February 16, 2021

https://t.co/mj88dlbg4O

— Grant Cohn (@grantcohn) February 16, 2021

So the niners want to extend a guy who is horrible at PP?

I know this move could lower his cap # but is it worth it? Look at Dee Ford.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
A good quality center will solve (I would say) 70% to 80% of Jimmy's problems. If he can step up in the pocket, I think he can hit those longer range throws. As for mobility, again a pocket QB won the super bowl. I think the rules favor a mobile QB, but ultimately a *winning* QB is a passer not a runner. I think the only tweak I'd do for Jimmy's game is more of a three tight end set - it helps the run game, it will help Jimmy in the short passing game and play action. BUT, I think it requires better OLinemen than we have now. If the OLine can't road grade the DLine on first downs, those three tight end sets can't overcome 3rd and longs.

That pocket QB was Tom Brady lol. Don't forget to throw that into the equation. Jimmy is NOT tom Brady. He does NOT see the field like Brady does. He can't read defenses like him. Brady was basically the OC.

When a QB can't feel pressure properly it doesn't matter. You simply can't expect an OL to hold up blocks all game long. You need explosive plays because dinking and dunking requires everything to be perfect for long periods of time.

Tampa did their thing BUT IMO it was more the defense then Tommy being a magician in the pocket. That game went about as well as it possibly could have for them.

I don't get why it has to be one thing or the other in this thread...both can be true. Better QB play, being able to extend plays AND having at the very least startable lineman who can stay on the field are all important to scoring pts.

I know you hate Jimmy so there is disagreement #1. Of course Jimmy isn't Brady. As somebody said, Tom is one hell of an offensive coordinator- Jimmy is still learning kyles rules of engament.

I know its a team game so improving the OLine will make the QB better, conversely improving the QB will make the OLine better - again its a team game.

I just think that a stronger interior line will help those downfield passes for Jimmy (or any of the 49er QBs) as pointed out repeatedly, the center position in Kyles offense is a critical key in the pass protections, and unfortunately that's been a weak spot since Kyle got here. I think this is the year they get that position fixed.

Kyle has a lot of time to develop Jimmy (and hopefully also a new top-of-the line rookie) as I recall he just got his contract extended. I think Jed would not extend his contract unless he intended to give Kyle the time he needs to build the team Kyle wants.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
A good quality center will solve (I would say) 70% to 80% of Jimmy's problems. If he can step up in the pocket, I think he can hit those longer range throws. As for mobility, again a pocket QB won the super bowl. I think the rules favor a mobile QB, but ultimately a *winning* QB is a passer not a runner. I think the only tweak I'd do for Jimmy's game is more of a three tight end set - it helps the run game, it will help Jimmy in the short passing game and play action. BUT, I think it requires better OLinemen than we have now. If the OLine can't road grade the DLine on first downs, those three tight end sets can't overcome 3rd and longs.

That pocket QB was Tom Brady lol. Don't forget to throw that into the equation. Jimmy is NOT tom Brady. He does NOT see the field like Brady does. He can't read defenses like him. Brady was basically the OC.

When a QB can't feel pressure properly it doesn't matter. You simply can't expect an OL to hold up blocks all game long. You need explosive plays because dinking and dunking requires everything to be perfect for long periods of time.

Tampa did their thing BUT IMO it was more the defense then Tommy being a magician in the pocket. That game went about as well as it possibly could have for them.

I don't get why it has to be one thing or the other in this thread...both can be true. Better QB play, being able to extend plays AND having at the very least startable lineman who can stay on the field are all important to scoring pts.

But you forget NY, Jimmy has as many starts as a 2nd/3rd year full time QB. He doesn't see the field like Brady because he (1) hasn't had the starts and (2) really hasn't had a stable offensive cast in which to learn. The real question is will the 49ers create a space that's at least somewhat stable with protection and receiving outlets where he can develop and grow. Geidi's point about Steve Young (and any other QB) is that it takes time to develop. Brady had the luxury of developing INTO "The Tom Brady" within a rock solid organization and one of the greatest coaches in history. All that context matters IMHO. The last SB winners have had that base in with which to work. No, not every team was perfect, but had enough stability overs many, many seasons to arrive at where they are. Reid has done something similar in KC. I think a LOT of credit has to go to what has been accomplished. The SB was a bitter loss, but good god - a team in 2017 was completely bare in terms of talent and competitiveness, bombed out with their 1st round picks under the new admin, grabbed a **back-up** QB with minimal starts. Add in a pretty resilient injury bug that stretched back to the Baalke years, and 2 years after being hired took **this** squad to the SB after completely dominating the playoffs?

Wow.

Who was the last team to do a complete rebuild in **3** seasons with no designated starting QB or blue-chip talent arrives as one of the NFL best in such a short turnaround? Even the revered Jim Harbaugh didn't do that. Years and years of failure prior to that regime resulted in 5 years of top-of-the-draft picks that set a perfect stage for Harbs to walk in and just coach top talent. Not even close to what was here when KS and JL arrived as we know Baalke cut, traded or let walk in FA any talent that was left.

Again, I know this is the OL thread and want to bring this back here a bit. As stated above, all the successful QB developed with a stable platform. KS and JL are still figuring out what that looks like as (1) we continue to find/develop talent and (2) as the league adapts to our scheme as this offense becomes more common. I agree; QB play MUST improve. As stated above, QB improvement from who ever is behind center needs to have a damn good center hiking the ball and I expect that major milestone to be addressed soon.

Does that mean we're 100% committed to Jimmy? No. I think it just means we have to be a little patient with his development and weigh cost-benefit as other QB options come available. IMHO, that shouldn't come at the expense of creating/building a platform (team) for any QB to develop.

Thoughts? (open to all)

Great post. I'll just add that when Jimmy had three WRs that stayed healthy for a significant portion of time - his results were similar to a Brady-esque kind of level. Even better when he had a strong healthy center hiking the ball to him.

NY85 doesn't like Jimmy. He's formed an opinion that's not going to budge, so I don't even bother belaboring that point with him. I just agree to disagree on that point.

However I do agree with him that a young talented mobile QB on the team will help more than it hurts. I'd like Jimmy to start protecting himself better and slide more and go out of bounds more, and him knowing a rookie is pushing to take his job because of health problems just might make him be more concerned about his health.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
A good quality center will solve (I would say) 70% to 80% of Jimmy's problems. If he can step up in the pocket, I think he can hit those longer range throws. As for mobility, again a pocket QB won the super bowl. I think the rules favor a mobile QB, but ultimately a *winning* QB is a passer not a runner. I think the only tweak I'd do for Jimmy's game is more of a three tight end set - it helps the run game, it will help Jimmy in the short passing game and play action. BUT, I think it requires better OLinemen than we have now. If the OLine can't road grade the DLine on first downs, those three tight end sets can't overcome 3rd and longs.

That pocket QB was Tom Brady lol. Don't forget to throw that into the equation. Jimmy is NOT tom Brady. He does NOT see the field like Brady does. He can't read defenses like him. Brady was basically the OC.

When a QB can't feel pressure properly it doesn't matter. You simply can't expect an OL to hold up blocks all game long. You need explosive plays because dinking and dunking requires everything to be perfect for long periods of time.

Tampa did their thing BUT IMO it was more the defense then Tommy being a magician in the pocket. That game went about as well as it possibly could have for them.

I don't get why it has to be one thing or the other in this thread...both can be true. Better QB play, being able to extend plays AND having at the very least startable lineman who can stay on the field are all important to scoring pts.

I know you hate Jimmy so there is disagreement #1. Of course Jimmy isn't Brady. As somebody said, Tom is one hell of an offensive coordinator- Jimmy is still learning kyles rules of engament.

I know its a team game so improving the OLine will make the QB better, conversely improving the QB will make the OLine better - again its a team game.

I just think that a stronger interior line will help those downfield passes for Jimmy (or any of the 49er QBs) as pointed out repeatedly, the center position in Kyles offense is a critical key in the pass protections, and unfortunately that's been a weak spot since Kyle got here. I think this is the year they get that position fixed.

Kyle has a lot of time to develop Jimmy (and hopefully also a new top-of-the line rookie) as I recall he just got his contract extended. I think Jed would not extend his contract unless he intended to give Kyle the time he needs to build the team Kyle wants.

this is year 5, he still has to learn what.. lol

Fixing the OL to be great is not an easy ask also, plus a good OL only hides a QB limitations through the regular season.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't get why it has to be one thing or the other in this thread...both can be true. Better QB play, being able to extend plays AND having at the very least startable lineman who can stay on the field are all important to scoring pts.

I agree with this. But what you're missing here is that no QB, whether slated for the HOF (Brady) or on a fast track to get there (Mahomes), in a passing league can get there without really good pass protection up front. This has been especially proven in Superbowls.

Until our OL is performing in PP like Tampa and not like Kansas City/San Francisco, it doesn't matter how mobile your QB is.

You do get this, right?

Both need to be upgraded but we have very little idea who Garoppolo really is (or could have been) as he's been trying to perform under constant duress and poundings.

Maybe he's psychologically and physically broke by now. Either way, both can be improved this off season if the lightbulb finally went off and I don't see how that's not possible after watching the Superbowl and translating it to nearly every 49er game in a mirror.

Agree, and I like NY85's point about if they don't draft QB, then they should draft an OLineman at the 12th pick. I think the Rosen signing is pointing to that. Personally, I like NY85's idea of drafting a QB at the #12 pick and the OLinemen later.

One reason is if they can sign Trent, then they just solidified the left side and maybe a round 2 or round 3 pick to solidify the center behind an Alex Mack. All in all, I think the OLine problems have to be addressed - if not - NY85 is right about the continued mediocre QB play.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
A good quality center will solve (I would say) 70% to 80% of Jimmy's problems. If he can step up in the pocket, I think he can hit those longer range throws. As for mobility, again a pocket QB won the super bowl. I think the rules favor a mobile QB, but ultimately a *winning* QB is a passer not a runner. I think the only tweak I'd do for Jimmy's game is more of a three tight end set - it helps the run game, it will help Jimmy in the short passing game and play action. BUT, I think it requires better OLinemen than we have now. If the OLine can't road grade the DLine on first downs, those three tight end sets can't overcome 3rd and longs.

That pocket QB was Tom Brady lol. Don't forget to throw that into the equation. Jimmy is NOT tom Brady. He does NOT see the field like Brady does. He can't read defenses like him. Brady was basically the OC.

When a QB can't feel pressure properly it doesn't matter. You simply can't expect an OL to hold up blocks all game long. You need explosive plays because dinking and dunking requires everything to be perfect for long periods of time.

Tampa did their thing BUT IMO it was more the defense then Tommy being a magician in the pocket. That game went about as well as it possibly could have for them.

I don't get why it has to be one thing or the other in this thread...both can be true. Better QB play, being able to extend plays AND having at the very least startable lineman who can stay on the field are all important to scoring pts.

I know you hate Jimmy so there is disagreement #1. Of course Jimmy isn't Brady. As somebody said, Tom is one hell of an offensive coordinator- Jimmy is still learning kyles rules of engament.

I know its a team game so improving the OLine will make the QB better, conversely improving the QB will make the OLine better - again its a team game.

I just think that a stronger interior line will help those downfield passes for Jimmy (or any of the 49er QBs) as pointed out repeatedly, the center position in Kyles offense is a critical key in the pass protections, and unfortunately that's been a weak spot since Kyle got here. I think this is the year they get that position fixed.

Kyle has a lot of time to develop Jimmy (and hopefully also a new top-of-the line rookie) as I recall he just got his contract extended. I think Jed would not extend his contract unless he intended to give Kyle the time he needs to build the team Kyle wants.

this is year 5, he still has to learn what.. lol

Fixing the OL to be great is not an easy ask also, plus a good OL only hides a QB limitations through the regular season.

Year 5? 32 games is *two* years.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Year 5? 32 games is *two* years.

you know he's been here since 2017 right ?

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Year 5? 32 games is *two* years.

you know he's been here since 2017 right ?

You need at least 5 years to learn KS system!

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Year 5? 32 games is *two* years.

you know he's been here since 2017 right ?

Yes and in 3 years, Jimmy has took this team to a SB. Who are the other long list of QBs who've done that in the last 3 years for their team? This is a Jimmy thread discussion but we can play the skewed context game too.

I have no doubt that we would've been a SB team with about 15 other QBs. You really think Jimmy TOOK this team to a SB?

NC, this one is for you

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Year 5? 32 games is *two* years.

you know he's been here since 2017 right ?

Yes and in 3 years, Jimmy has took this team to a SB. Who are the other long list of QBs who've done that in the last 3 years for their team? This is a Jimmy thread discussion but we can play the skewed context game too.

what does that have to do with statement that Jimmy still has to learn Kyles basics in year 5 ?

plus we went to the SB in 2012.. how did that help the team in the years after?

Originally posted by genus49:
NC, this one is for you

nice

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Year 5? 32 games is *two* years.

you know he's been here since 2017 right ?

Yes and in 3 years, Jimmy has took this team to a SB. Who are the other long list of QBs who've done that in the last 3 years for their team? This is a Jimmy thread discussion but we can play the skewed context game too.

I have no doubt that we would've been a SB team with about 15 other QBs. You really think Jimmy TOOK this team to a SB?

Was he the QB? True answers only please.

Lol. Fine, if thats your take, then you must believe that guys like Brad Johnson and Dilfer were the reason why their team won a SB, or Manning with the Broncos. Or guys like Grossman and Goff who got to the SB.

In 2017, if for some reason Cousins, Carr, Ryan, or whatever other decent, middle of the pack QB (like Jimmy) was our QB, the outcome in 2019 would've been the same. Now obviously if we have a great QB, we win it all.

But Jimmy was not the main reason. He played well, did enough during most games. Though he was rarely asked to have to carry. If our defense wasn't elite, or run game, then we aren't even making the playoffs.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Year 5? 32 games is *two* years.

you know he's been here since 2017 right ?

You know you get betrer by playing the game instead of watching, right?

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Year 5? 32 games is *two* years.

you know he's been here since 2017 right ?

Yes and in 3 years, Jimmy has took this team to a SB. Who are the other long list of QBs who've done that in the last 3 years for their team? This is a Jimmy thread discussion but we can play the skewed context game too.

I have no doubt that we would've been a SB team with about 15 other QBs. You really think Jimmy TOOK this team to a SB?

Yeah I do.