49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Look before this thread goes sideways again. I think it's pretty fair to acknowledge laken was better than you would even admit. You can't toss out thorn your favorite OL guru with everything, then s**t on his top 5 LG rankings. So he's either better than you think, or the IOL play across the league simply isn't as good as you think it is.

No need to toss out loaded questions where you know the outcome. We can all do that to get the answer we want. The OL wasn't elite this past playoffs. Neither was the QB (not close). We can point fingers all over the place.

for you to say you never said they were terrible, is a down right silly. Can't they improve? Absolutely, no one is denying that. Have they done enough? Won't know until we see the pads come on. I have my questions at center.

You have issues. Stop saying everyone is s**tting on everything and go get some sleep. LOL

Originally posted by NCommand:
You have eyes and a brain. You don't NEED PFF to validate what you should already know by now.

Man if you only applied what you say to people in here to yourself, there'd be a lot less arguing.

deflecting the question, eh? PFF either matters or it doesn't. So which is it so we all know in here….no more p***y footing around about it.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
If the O line is giving up a pressure on 42% of the offenses pass snaps, I have to agree with NC, that is just not good enough in the playoffs. That is probably the reason why we let Tomlinson and Compton go. I hope someone beats out Brunskill in TC because he wasn't very good either.

If a QB knows where to go with the bal,l that pressure rate decreases. By how much is TBD but it would absolutely improve with more consistent proper play. Play calling changes when you can effectively use the whole field. Defenses have to adjust.

overall the OL wasn't amazing in the playoffs. I don't think anyone is saying they were. Injuries didn't help across the board either.

Translation: QB still should have transcended a 42% pressure rate in defensive battle playoff games.

And LOL at "wasn't amazing." Talk about minimizing.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
You have eyes and a brain. You don't NEED PFF to validate what you should already know by now.

Man if you only applied what you say to people in here to yourself, there'd be a lot less arguing.

deflecting the question, eh? PFF either matters or it doesn't. So which is it so we all know in here….no more p***y footing around about it.

I've been spot on on my LT analysis since day 1. And nothing has changed. Literally.

Originally posted by NCommand:
You have issues. Stop saying everyone is s**tting on everything and go get some sleep. LOL

No I'm saying you and GM have for years. You trying to act like you haven't is a lie and we all know it in here.

you don't like the OL, you don't like how they've built it, you've crapped on every player not named Trent and even when they do play well you toss our passive aggressive comments. please explain how that's not s**tting on the OL. Man you're delusional.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
You have issues. Stop saying everyone is s**tting on everything and go get some sleep. LOL

No I'm saying you and GM have for years. You trying to act like you haven't is a lie and we all know it in here.

you don't like the OL, you don't like how they've built it, you've crapped on every player not named Trent and even when they do play well you toss our passive aggressive comments. please explain how that's not s**tting on the OL. Man you're delusional.

Delusional?

So was it good enough?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
If the O line is giving up a pressure on 42% of the offenses pass snaps, I have to agree with NC, that is just not good enough in the playoffs. That is probably the reason why we let Tomlinson and Compton go. I hope someone beats out Brunskill in TC because he wasn't very good either.

If a QB knows where to go with the bal,l that pressure rate decreases. By how much is TBD but it would absolutely improve with more consistent proper play. Play calling changes when you can effectively use the whole field. Defenses have to adjust.

overall the OL wasn't amazing in the playoffs. I don't think anyone is saying they were. Injuries didn't help across the board either.

I don't disagree with you about needing better QB play. I have stated as much. But this is the O line thread and we need to be able to talk about the O line in isolation from the other position groups. If you have statistics that better isolates the O line play than I am all ears.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I've been spot on on my LT analysis since day 1. And nothing has changed. Literally.

No you clearly haven't been. You've calling him crap and downplayed him as a legit LG for years. You've called him replaceable and yet your boy Thorn has him top 5 in the league at LG…you have NOT been spot on…you've overvalued the importance of what you think elite guard play and you have unrealistic expectations compared to the rest of the league at the position group as a whole. Your comments about Laken have backed that up.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I don't disagree with you about needing better QB play. I have stated as much. But this is the O line thread and we need to be able to talk about the O line in isolation from the other position groups. If you have statistics that better isolates the O line play than I am all ears.

That's fair, I do think when we're discussing PBLK it goes hand and hand with QB play. I don't think the OL was amazing in the playoffs. I don't think that was the only reason they didn't go to the Super Bowl and saying was it enough is a load question. I do believe if you toss Stafford on this roster they win the Super Bowl all the same.

I can't stand the "I didn't say that" crap after I've been debating it for literally years with him. At least be a man about it and say yeah I did crap on the OL and just about every aspect of how it was made/who's on the team and how little I value them. We've all been in here and know.

I would love to see where Thorn graded LT in both PB and RB. Pff has LT ranked 24th amongst G's in PB and 21st amongst G's in RB during the 2021 regular season.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I've been spot on on my LT analysis since day 1. And nothing has changed. Literally.

No you clearly haven't been. You've calling him crap and downplayed him as a legit LG for years. You've called him replaceable and yet your boy Thorn has him top 5 in the league at LG…you have NOT been spot on…you've overvalued the importance of what you think elite guard play and you have unrealistic expectations compared to the rest of the league at the position group as a whole. Your comments about Laken have backed that up.

I know this is super hard to comprehend but let's repeat it again for s**ts and giggles (pun intended).

LT has ALWAYS been in the red in pass protection. He put his starting QB on I.R. twice in one year. That wasn't enough evidence for you. 7 years later he FINALLY got out of the red only to dive right back in it in the playoffs. At one point he was graded as one of the worst PBE G's in the NFL.

If calling THAT aspect of his game is considered "s**tting on him" you have issues.

You do this...you latch on to one little thing and can't see anything else.

As to him in general, I've always stated he's an above average G in run blocking, below average in PP and overall a solid tier 3-4 G who gives you continuity and health. He's worth keeping esp. in a year where so many changes are expected on the OL with a new starting QB.

But his weaknesses are why you can see they let him walk. That's still a player you'd like to upgrade over after 6 years.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I don't disagree with you about needing better QB play. I have stated as much. But this is the O line thread and we need to be able to talk about the O line in isolation from the other position groups. If you have statistics that better isolates the O line play than I am all ears.

That's fair, I do think when we're discussing PBLK it goes hand and hand with QB play. I don't think the OL was amazing in the playoffs. I don't think that was the only reason they didn't go to the Super Bowl and saying was it enough is a load question. I do believe if you toss Stafford on this roster they win the Super Bowl all the same.

I can't stand the "I didn't say that" crap after I've been debating it for literally years with him. At least be a man about it and say yeah I did crap on the OL and just about every aspect of how it was made/who's on the team and how little I value them. We've all been in here and know.

Are you talking to him or me? LOL

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I know I am probably annoying some people on here with the analytics but I have a month subscription to pff. So I am going to use it damn it. I don't think you'll find any of this surprising NC.

Pff weighs their pass blocking efficiency toward sacks allowed. They had us ranked 10th in the league and 13th in the post season. That is 13 out of 14 teams for the post season for pass blocking efficiency.

Percentage wise, we gave up a pressure on 22.7% of our pass snaps in the regular season. LAR gave up a pressure on 22.3% of their pass snaps. Pretty much neck and neck when it comes to the regular season.

However, when it came to the post season, things were very different. Pff had LAR ranked 4th, giving up a pressure on 18.8% of their pass snaps. SF on the otherhand were ranked 13th, giving up a pressure on 41.8% of their pass snaps. If we aren't weighing the efficiency toward sacks but by pressure rate, that makes them dead last in the post season.

TW allowed 0.8 pressures per game in the 2021 regular season. He allowed 1 pressure in each of the DAL game and GB game. So lets just say TW went into LA healthy and he only gave up 1 pressure in that game. We would have still ranked 12th in the post season and gave up a pressure on 36.7% of our pass snaps.

We had 79 pass snaps in total in the post season. 33 total pressures. Laken Tomlinson gave up 9 pressures, Tom Compton gave up 9 pressures and Trent Williams gave up 7 pressures. I give Trent a pass because of the injury but LT and TC gave up more than half of the pressures in the post season. That's probably why they let Tomlinson and Compton go in FA.

Bump for the those in the back who are talking to themselves and not listening in class. LOL

We have been saying literally since 2019 SB that our philosophy/talent for the OL and the rest of the team to offset is good enough for the regular season and even the playoffs, but as we move closer/deeper into the play-off season, deficiencies become magnified and we're not as able to hide talent holes - including QB. We have consistently argued that it's complexity and one part of that has been the recurring theme has been an inability to sustain offense (run and pass) in critical game situations because what we see up front in the trenches. YACs stats prove that out with PP and Rumbeck (who writes for the Webzone) proved that out with his stats under 3ypc running in the 2021 NFCCG and numerous articles talking about observations in the 2nd half of the 2019 season SB. Here's the thing, it wasn't that much better against Green Bay a week earlier if you remove Deebo's heroics. Analysis has become "s**tting on" and it's "you need pro bowl/HOF/All World/ Deity Mode players everywhere" hyperbole which deflects and clouds the analysis. Interesting when I talk to other Niner fans about this outside of this thread the discussion isn't as polarized.

Man, if calling out player weaknesses and proven failed team building strategy and philosophy with a couple units (OL + DB) is "s**tting on everything," I can't wait to see NY s**t on Trey and the FO in year 1.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Delusional?

So was it good enough?

None of it was. Was the secondary? Or the QB play? Tartt get a INT you can't use that debate. Jimmy hits one of his dozen missed reads or bad throws they win all the same.

thats my point. I also said it wasn't great in the playoffs.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Are you talking to him or me? LOL

I'm talking to him about you in the second paragraph…but you know that