49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

You know, if you just want to take over this whole thread from here on out, I'll happily oblige.

Those are eye opening statistics.

There are a few things that really stood out to me. Joe Burrow was good enough under pressure to make the SB. We all pretty much knew that. Mac Jones was actually pretty solid under pressure. Big Ben and Tom Brady aren't what they used to be.

The 41.3% pressure rating on Jimmy is disappointing. I don't remember if Trent was hurt in the Dallas game or not, but I think he played more than one post season game hurt? Anyway, that 41.3% can't happen in the playoffs - if the 49ers want to have a shot at the 🏆'th Lombardi.

Trent played well in both the DAL and GB game. He was credited with 1 pressure in each game which was slightly above his regular season average. Tom Compton and Laken Tomlinson both gave up 9 pressures each. Daniel Brunskill gave up 5 and Alex Mack gave up 3.

I think in this particular game, Trey's mobility would have been a factor in helping that pressure rate. The rams had Von coming in from the edge and Donald coming in from the interior. That's going to give any OLine problems. When the 49ers played NY Giants and Lawrence Taylor in the NFCCG - Joe's mobility really did help a lot to neutralized Lawrence Taylor's pass rush.

Not on the pressure rate % stats. Only on what he does after he's pressured.

Trey...Jimmy...Montana...Young...you don't want ANY 49ers QB pressured that much.

Until I see how they grade the stats, I'm skeptical. A lot of these advanced stats are too subjective in my view. Point is, the 41% pressure rate, how is that actually graded and differentiated from a (for example) blitz vs a missed handoff on a tackle/end twist? Jimmy was pretty high up there when blitzed QB ratings-wise, but then he's pressured and his numbers drop drastically? I do know that Trent was injured, and so the OLine is limited in sliding the protections one way or the other with a one legged Trent. Add in the fact that the Ram's DLine was a one time bought and paid for mercenary DLine unlike the 49er DLine, and I have a lot of salt I'm depositing for these so called stats.

Pressure rate isn't super hard to determine. There is going to be a tad subjectivity in it though.

Start with only passing downs. Then, is he moved off his spot? And when? Under 3s or over 3s? Does it force him to speed up his delivery, throw early, scramble, rush up through a hole, side step, shuffle, etc.?

Pretty much any duress under some operational definition on time. Then after that point, it's on the QB...not on the OL.

Moved off his spot - does the mobility of the QB matter? I would think a defensive coordinator will blitz a mobile QB less than an pocket QB due to the escapability dimension. Also line stunts and dogs are not a rush containment strategy and a mobile QB can escape through the cracks in a rush containment strategy.

No, I would guestimate an evaluator would simply look at 2, 3, 5 and 7 step drops. If he's altered in any way within the drop back, that's a pressure. If he's on a designed role out, PA, etc. same concept. If he has to alter his path, that's a pressure.

Under 3 or Over 3 - Pass blocking sets, I think, differ between under 3 yards to pass vs longer passes that have to go over 3. I.e. 3 step slants vs 5 step drops, vs 7 step drops and play actions. Those are all different kinds of pass blocking sets. If your Left Tackle is injured, I'm assuming that skews the pressure rates a bit from a normal pressure rate.

Totally. That's why I would think they'd have a clicker for each drop back for 2, 3, 5, 7 and PA. Getting a pressure on a slant would be incredibly challenging. Injuries don't factor into the stat itself. A pressure is a pressure. Like the TW and McKivitz example. It's still 5 either way. 1 just happens to be as a result of an injury and the other, a talent issue.

QB Ratings - are affected by the defensive backs and defensive coverage. Guys like Deion limited QB ratings to his side sub 70%, and guys like Donte Johnson - actually elevate a QB's ratings + 100%

So again, a lot of these statistics are interesting, but I take them with a heavy truckload of salt.

Tight DB coverage can absolutely affect pressure rates. It forces the QB to hold it longer or he's hesitating and indecisive. Like play calling can too; longer developing plays take longer so the PP has to hold. We actually have a distinct advantage since we rely on 2.5s passes for RAC where the Rams have to hold to 2.8s for more intermediate passes.

That said, pressures are simply tallied either way. A pressure is a pressure is a pressure and the correlation to success and failure is a tried and true correlation since the dawn of time, I would imagine.

Well yes, a pressure is a pressure, but sometimes a pressure is designed. Those RPOs - have a designed guy unblocked. When it works, it usually works great. When it doesn't then it looks like a pressure - but it was intended vs accidentall.

My simple point is that arguing stats are nice, and they are valid measurements of performance, but you have to be careful of what you are measuring. Sometimes its addressing the question of "are you seeing what I'm seeing?" But more often than not its addressing the question "WHY aren't you seeing what I'm seeing."

Anyway, I'd join PFF if I had to money too. I'm just too cheap.😉😛😋

I plan on canceling my subscription before I am charged another $35. I might pay for a month subscription in the off season every year now though.

Either way, appreciate what you brought to the topic. Obviously there are a few who will see what they want to see but for the rest of us, it validated what many already knew or suspected. Some was even surprising.

You're welcome. I still have 3 weeks left. I was thinking about diving into our secondary next.

That's another great area. It couldn't hurt to look at that 2019 OL too. There might be some surprises esp. the splits in regular vs. post season (Richburg going down). And the pressure rates for the rest of the playoff teams.

No biggie if not though.

I am more excited about looking to see what we have now in the secondary moving forward as opposed to what we had in 2019 on the O Line. I also might look at the WR group and maybe try to project a little on what we could see this year from them.

Totally fair. DB is my second biggest concern. Waaaaay less than last year but as a whole, this unit needs to start generating some TO's. It's, literally, been a historically bad group in that area. I heard Ryans stressing it the other day too.

OLine is my second biggest concern but it's way below my main concern.

Mayo's penis predictions?

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
So we're swapping McKivitz and Moore at the T spot. Looks like we still searching…

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

You know, if you just want to take over this whole thread from here on out, I'll happily oblige.

Those are eye opening statistics.

There are a few things that really stood out to me. Joe Burrow was good enough under pressure to make the SB. We all pretty much knew that. Mac Jones was actually pretty solid under pressure. Big Ben and Tom Brady aren't what they used to be.

The 41.3% pressure rating on Jimmy is disappointing. I don't remember if Trent was hurt in the Dallas game or not, but I think he played more than one post season game hurt? Anyway, that 41.3% can't happen in the playoffs - if the 49ers want to have a shot at the 🏆'th Lombardi.

Trent played well in both the DAL and GB game. He was credited with 1 pressure in each game which was slightly above his regular season average. Tom Compton and Laken Tomlinson both gave up 9 pressures each. Daniel Brunskill gave up 5 and Alex Mack gave up 3.

I think in this particular game, Trey's mobility would have been a factor in helping that pressure rate. The rams had Von coming in from the edge and Donald coming in from the interior. That's going to give any OLine problems. When the 49ers played NY Giants and Lawrence Taylor in the NFCCG - Joe's mobility really did help a lot to neutralized Lawrence Taylor's pass rush.

Not on the pressure rate % stats. Only on what he does after he's pressured.

Trey...Jimmy...Montana...Young...you don't want ANY 49ers QB pressured that much.

Until I see how they grade the stats, I'm skeptical. A lot of these advanced stats are too subjective in my view. Point is, the 41% pressure rate, how is that actually graded and differentiated from a (for example) blitz vs a missed handoff on a tackle/end twist? Jimmy was pretty high up there when blitzed QB ratings-wise, but then he's pressured and his numbers drop drastically? I do know that Trent was injured, and so the OLine is limited in sliding the protections one way or the other with a one legged Trent. Add in the fact that the Ram's DLine was a one time bought and paid for mercenary DLine unlike the 49er DLine, and I have a lot of salt I'm depositing for these so called stats.

Pressure rate isn't super hard to determine. There is going to be a tad subjectivity in it though.

Start with only passing downs. Then, is he moved off his spot? And when? Under 3s or over 3s? Does it force him to speed up his delivery, throw early, scramble, rush up through a hole, side step, shuffle, etc.?

Pretty much any duress under some operational definition on time. Then after that point, it's on the QB...not on the OL.

Moved off his spot - does the mobility of the QB matter? I would think a defensive coordinator will blitz a mobile QB less than an pocket QB due to the escapability dimension. Also line stunts and dogs are not a rush containment strategy and a mobile QB can escape through the cracks in a rush containment strategy.

No, I would guestimate an evaluator would simply look at 2, 3, 5 and 7 step drops. If he's altered in any way within the drop back, that's a pressure. If he's on a designed role out, PA, etc. same concept. If he has to alter his path, that's a pressure.

Under 3 or Over 3 - Pass blocking sets, I think, differ between under 3 yards to pass vs longer passes that have to go over 3. I.e. 3 step slants vs 5 step drops, vs 7 step drops and play actions. Those are all different kinds of pass blocking sets. If your Left Tackle is injured, I'm assuming that skews the pressure rates a bit from a normal pressure rate.

Totally. That's why I would think they'd have a clicker for each drop back for 2, 3, 5, 7 and PA. Getting a pressure on a slant would be incredibly challenging. Injuries don't factor into the stat itself. A pressure is a pressure. Like the TW and McKivitz example. It's still 5 either way. 1 just happens to be as a result of an injury and the other, a talent issue.

QB Ratings - are affected by the defensive backs and defensive coverage. Guys like Deion limited QB ratings to his side sub 70%, and guys like Donte Johnson - actually elevate a QB's ratings + 100%

So again, a lot of these statistics are interesting, but I take them with a heavy truckload of salt.

Tight DB coverage can absolutely affect pressure rates. It forces the QB to hold it longer or he's hesitating and indecisive. Like play calling can too; longer developing plays take longer so the PP has to hold. We actually have a distinct advantage since we rely on 2.5s passes for RAC where the Rams have to hold to 2.8s for more intermediate passes.

That said, pressures are simply tallied either way. A pressure is a pressure is a pressure and the correlation to success and failure is a tried and true correlation since the dawn of time, I would imagine.

Well yes, a pressure is a pressure, but sometimes a pressure is designed. Those RPOs - have a designed guy unblocked. When it works, it usually works great. When it doesn't then it looks like a pressure - but it was intended vs accidentall.

My simple point is that arguing stats are nice, and they are valid measurements of performance, but you have to be careful of what you are measuring. Sometimes its addressing the question of "are you seeing what I'm seeing?" But more often than not its addressing the question "WHY aren't you seeing what I'm seeing."

Anyway, I'd join PFF if I had to money too. I'm just too cheap.😉😛😋

I plan on canceling my subscription before I am charged another $35. I might pay for a month subscription in the off season every year now though.

Either way, appreciate what you brought to the topic. Obviously there are a few who will see what they want to see but for the rest of us, it validated what many already knew or suspected. Some was even surprising.

You're welcome. I still have 3 weeks left. I was thinking about diving into our secondary next.

That's another great area. It couldn't hurt to look at that 2019 OL too. There might be some surprises esp. the splits in regular vs. post season (Richburg going down). And the pressure rates for the rest of the playoff teams.

No biggie if not though.

I am more excited about looking to see what we have now in the secondary moving forward as opposed to what we had in 2019 on the O Line. I also might look at the WR group and maybe try to project a little on what we could see this year from them.

Totally fair. DB is my second biggest concern. Waaaaay less than last year but as a whole, this unit needs to start generating some TO's. It's, literally, been a historically bad group in that area. I heard Ryans stressing it the other day too.

OLine is my second biggest concern but it's way below my main concern.

Mayo's penis predictions?

QB

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
So we're swapping McKivitz and Moore at the T spot. Looks like we still searching…

Burford should be playing Tackle not guard. Let Moore play guard

Originally posted by NCommand:
I was listening to the 49ers Rush Pod the other day and he was noting how we love to play players out of positions they proved successful at in college.

I thought

Then he started listing off a bunch of examples. We do take that a bit overboard. Cross training is good for an emergency value come 53 cut downs but not to the point you can't specialize at one position. The NFL is hard enough at one position to learn and master.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Same concept.

Very fair.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I was listening to the 49ers Rush Pod the other day and he was noting how we love to play players out of positions they proved successful at in college.

I thought

Then he started listing off a bunch of examples. We do take that a bit overboard. Cross training is good for an emergency value come 53 cut downs but not to the point you can't specialize at one position. The NFL is hard enough at one position to learn and master.

Burford had played all of them though. His skillset fits best at tackle tho IMO. Same with Moore at guard. I can see why they are trying it but long term thats where it should shake out.

Moore isn't a tackle to me.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Same concept.

Very fair.

Kinda the same but if the O line fails it's just a lost season. If the QB fails we lose our legit top 5 HC likely.

edit if he fails to develop. Not this season

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
So we're swapping McKivitz and Moore at the T spot. Looks like we still searching…

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Same concept.

Very fair.

Kinda the same but if the O line fails it's just a lost season. If the QB fails we lose our legit top 5 HC likely.

edit if he fails to develop. Not this season

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Two practices in, Aaron Banks has been the best #49ers offensive lineman.#49wz

— Rohan Chakravarthi (@RohanChakrav) July 29, 2022

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Same concept.

Very fair.

Kinda the same but if the O line fails it's just a lost season. If the QB fails we lose our legit top 5 HC likely.

edit if he fails to develop. Not this season

I hope not. Just get rid of Lance and try again. Can't let a coach of Kyle's caliber walk out the door. Last year he proved he's that guy.