49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Shouldn't there be at least one team doing what you suggest?

4D chess man

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Emulating? Nobody. Does he emulate any other team in the NFL on the RB position? Does Lynch emulate anybody on the DL position? Of course not. They're working from within his own reality and values.

No team has RB depth? Seahawks have a first and second rounder right now on their roster.

Take a look at the Bills D line depth.

Really? Are you seriously trying to compare the two? Yes, you'll find a couple teams who also might prioritize those position groups too but to the same degree?

Also, it's never been about emulating other teams strategies. What I outlined were the differences in team building philosophy HERE. That's all that matters. And when injuries hit one of these two units, their actions tell it all.

OL here? Not so much. Kyle believes he can work around injuries and an average 5 starting unit annually and 5th-UDFA's for depth for WHEN injuries hit. He's not wrong in still finding success. It's just not a formula for getting over the hump IMHO (for any QB).

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Shouldn't there be at least one team doing what you suggest?

What team relies on top 3 rushing attempts annually and who has had as many injuries to that unit over the last 5 seasons? Ravens???

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Emulating? Nobody. Does he emulate any other team in the NFL on the RB position? Does Lynch emulate anybody on the DL position? Of course not. They're working from within his own reality and values.

No team has RB depth? Seahawks have a first and second rounder right now on their roster.

Take a look at the Bills D line depth.

Really? Are you seriously trying to compare the two? Yes, you'll find a couple teams who also might prioritize those position groups too but to the same degree?

Also, it's never been about emulating other teams strategies. What I outlined were the differences in team building philosophy HERE. That's all that matters. And when injuries hit one of these two units, their actions tell it all.

OL here? Not so much. Kyle believes he can work around injuries and an average 5 starting unit annually and 5th-UDFA's for depth for WHEN injuries hit.

Kyle believes or Kyle has , and he has done it at a very high level

your're posting as if it were 2017 still

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Where have you been all my life? LOL

The guaranteed injuries going into the playoffs are horrible. Not learning from it is worse though.

Because Tristan Wirfs is always healthy come playoff time.

You're about to see Tom Brady and Matt Stafford behind OL's with big losses. We saw what one "injury" to Wirfs caused.

While I think there is something to our quantity/quality correlation to injuries esp. late, I'm not faulting anyone for the injuries. The issue was not seeing the theme (like Kyle did for RB) and not building up the talent pool for 'when' it happens again.

I do think Kyle is over these dudes getting hurt though. Maybe that plays into the younger bigger frames and more straight-ahead scheme changes. We'll see.

I think Banks, Burford, Moore, and Zakelj is a good start at developing that talent pool conveyor belt we both want on the OLine. Add in some talented undrafted free agents Poe and West, and some young veterans in McKivitz, Skule. Agree, it's not ideal, considering the missed opportunities like Joe Williams, Hurd, Pettis, Solomon that could have been used to bolster the OLine, but I like where ShanaLynch is trending. We're adding these guys to the established guys - Trent, Brunskill, and McGlinchy - who aren't exactly a terrible group if they are all healthy.

Nothing wrong with adding as many 4th-UDFA's as possible. But that's only 1 prong. In short, that IS our total pool to choose from.

Do we have the coaching to expand that pool, given limited resources?

Keep in mind, *developing* means you have a coach that can *develop* the players drafted (even if they are number one picks like Bosa). ON defense we have Kris Kocerek, on offense? I am confident in Foerster, but I don't think he's proven to be an elite developer of OLinemen the way Kocurek is on defense. What good is it drafting first and second round picks like the Mcglinchy's and Banks, if you really can't really develop them to possible hall of fame level?

If you don't have one of those genius OLine coaches - One strategy is to throw low level draft picks at him and focus on the strengths (Kocurcek). I'm not saying that's what we should do, but rather isn't that what a coach would do if his coaching staff limits the talent acquisition options? Specially with scarce resources like draft capital and cap space.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
4D chess man

Don't make the process argument. Make the execution argument.

Chiefs we're going with 3 rookies, a RT who had never been a LT and a top vet in 2021 with little competition for any of them. It worked out as a 2nd and 6th hit and the RT was solid at LT. But there was no competition built in. They executed the very same process the 9ers are trying.

Of course they also didn't win the SB so maybe the whole thing was actually a failure.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Kyle believes or Kyle has , and he has done it at a very high level

your're posting as if it were 2017 still

Not at all. I just noted Kyle has found success with it. But like I said, it's not a formula for getting over the hump IMHO. And Kyle doesn't appear to 'see it' like he does with RB (example) or Lynch at DL. It's a blind spot.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
4D chess man

Don't make the process argument. Make the execution argument.

Chiefs we're going with 3 rookies, a RT who had never been a LT and a top vet in 2021 with little competition for any of them. It worked out as a 2nd and 6th hit and the RT was solid at LT. But there was no competition built in. They executed the very same process the 9ers are trying.

Of course they also didn't win the SB so maybe the whole thing was actually a failure.

I think you hit the nail on the head on process vs execution.
that said my biggest gripe was not addressing C last year in the 2nd, but rather going with banks. Maybe banks proves me wrong and one if these C's pans out.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
4D chess man

Don't make the process argument. Make the execution argument.

Chiefs we're going with 3 rookies, a RT who had never been a LT and a top vet in 2021 with little competition for any of them. It worked out as a 2nd and 6th hit and the RT was solid at LT. But there was no competition built in. They executed the very same process the 9ers are trying.

Of course they also didn't win the SB so maybe the whole thing was actually a failure.

No need to constantly pivot off our team to others and their strategies, eye for talent, draft and development process, priority units, etc.

You see what happens here annually and the same patterns.

Maybe not...

Originally posted by NCommand:
Really? Are you seriously trying to compare the two? Yes, you'll find a couple teams who also might prioritize those position groups too but to the same degree?

Also, it's never been about emulating other teams strategies. What I outlined were the differences in team building philosophy HERE. That's all that matters. And when injuries hit one of these two units, their actions tell it all.

OL here? Not so much. Kyle believes he can work around injuries and an average 5 starting unit annually and 5th-UDFA's for depth for WHEN injuries hit. He's not wrong in still finding success. It's just not a formula for getting over the hump IMHO (for any QB).

Yes the Bills prioritize D line to the same degree. They have 5 former 1st or 2nd rounders at DE. A 1st rounder at DT. 2 more quality DT FAs they signed. Their rotation will be comparable to ours easily.

The team building philosophy here isn't different to the rest of the league when it comes to the OL. Always been the point. You wanna argue execution of said philosophy that's a different conversation.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
4D chess man

Don't make the process argument. Make the execution argument.

Chiefs we're going with 3 rookies, a RT who had never been a LT and a top vet in 2021 with little competition for any of them. It worked out as a 2nd and 6th hit and the RT was solid at LT. But there was no competition built in. They executed the very same process the 9ers are trying.

Of course they also didn't win the SB so maybe the whole thing was actually a failure.

I think you hit the nail on the head on process vs execution.
that said my biggest gripe was not addressing C last year in the 2nd, but rather going with banks. Maybe banks proves me wrong and one if these C's pans out.

YAC already showed the splits of the regular season vs. post season. That's not an issue of just one bad day at the office on closing day. That's a talent issue (and yes, in part due to injuries).

And I agree with your second part.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Really? Are you seriously trying to compare the two? Yes, you'll find a couple teams who also might prioritize those position groups too but to the same degree?

Also, it's never been about emulating other teams strategies. What I outlined were the differences in team building philosophy HERE. That's all that matters. And when injuries hit one of these two units, their actions tell it all.

OL here? Not so much. Kyle believes he can work around injuries and an average 5 starting unit annually and 5th-UDFA's for depth for WHEN injuries hit. He's not wrong in still finding success. It's just not a formula for getting over the hump IMHO (for any QB).

Yes the Bills prioritize D line to the same degree. They have 5 former 1st or 2nd rounders at DE. A 1st rounder at DT. 2 more quality DT FAs they signed. Their rotation will be comparable to ours easily.

The team building philosophy here isn't different to the rest of the league when it comes to the OL. Always been the point. You wanna argue execution of said philosophy that's a different conversation.

Man, talking about completely missing the point!

The issue is NOT comparing your team building strategy to others but working within your own reality.

If we didn't have injuries to priority positions like RB and DL annually too, Kyle would only carry 2-3 active on game day...would only need to draft one higher end RB. Same concept with DL. There's a reason we are 12 deep with several more in the pipeline and still bringing in more and doing workouts for DL as I type this. That's OUR reality. Not another teams.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Kyle believes or Kyle has , and he has done it at a very high level

your're posting as if it were 2017 still

Not at all. I just noted Kyle has found success with it. But like I said, it's not a formula for getting over the hump IMHO. And Kyle doesn't appear to 'see it' like he does with RB (example) or Lynch at DL. It's a blind spot.

Yet you can start the season with all all pros and finish the season with none of those guys starting

Originally posted by NCommand:
Man, talking about completely missing the point!

The issue is NOT comparing your team building strategy to others but working within your own reality.

If we didn't have injuries to priority positions like RB and DL annually too, Kyle would only carry 2-3 active on game day...would only need to draft one higher end RB. Same concept with DL. There's a reason we are 12 deep with several more in the pipeline and still bringing in more and doing workouts for DL as I type this. That's OUR reality. Not another teams.

No the reason he keeps so many RB and DL is because they can actually use them all in a game. Weapons. Not just to protect against injury. Jordan Willis and Kerry Hyder would not be here if they were just going to ride the bench or be there in case of injury. Think Hyder would be cool with 5 snaps in 17 games?

Why have the 9ers not used draft picks on reserve linebackers like the DL? No 1sts and 2nds to push Greenlaw or Al Shaiir. No starting level depth if they are hurt. Blind spot?