49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Kyle believes or Kyle has , and he has done it at a very high level

your're posting as if it were 2017 still

Not at all. I just noted Kyle has found success with it. But like I said, it's not a formula for getting over the hump IMHO. And Kyle doesn't appear to 'see it' like he does with RB (example) or Lynch at DL. It's a blind spot.

Yet you can start the season with all all pros and finish the season with none of those guys starting

Sure. But if they prioritized OL like RB and DL we'd still be in good shape with the talent and depth and stockpiling strategy they employed over 6 off seasons. Of course they'd also have to have an eye for talent at OL and draft/develop very well too. They'd probably have a bunch of veteran players like Hyder, Willis, Key, Nkemdiche, Omenihu and Hurts to step in when/if needed as well to push the starters, add insurance and add to the meeting room and mentoring. They'd also have the equivalent of a Bobby Turner, John Lynch and Kris Kocurek on the OL side too.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Man, talking about completely missing the point!

The issue is NOT comparing your team building strategy to others but working within your own reality.

If we didn't have injuries to priority positions like RB and DL annually too, Kyle would only carry 2-3 active on game day...would only need to draft one higher end RB. Same concept with DL. There's a reason we are 12 deep with several more in the pipeline and still bringing in more and doing workouts for DL as I type this. That's OUR reality. Not another teams.

No the reason he keeps so many RB and DL is because they can actually use them all in a game. Weapons. Not just to protect against injury. Jordan Willis and Kerry Hyder would not be here if they were just going to ride the bench or be there in case of injury. Think Hyder would be cool with 5 snaps in 17 games?

No, that was never an issue until he came here. He said it's a necessity here now. And it is. I'm sure he'd love to have just the Freeman/Coleman combo again and use the 2 extra RB roster spots elsewhere.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Why have the 9ers not used draft picks on reserve linebackers like the DL? No 1sts and 2nds to push Greenlaw or Al Shaiir. No starting level depth if they are hurt. Blind spot?

1. They have an excellent eye for talent there.
2. They had Holland/Ryans to develop and coach them up over years.
3. You only need 2 starters.
4. Strategy can easily be modified to work around an injury.

As a result, they are 5 deep and probably the best LB unit in the NFL.

Honestly, if Kyle's strategy on the OL worked (3rd rounder + UDFA's and no misses on draft picks) like LB, this thread would be totally dead. They failed miserably on Kwon Alexander and Reuben Foster though. That thread was hot for a long time as a result like in here now. Once they finally fixed it, it went silent.

Can't wait for that day in here!

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, that was never an issue until he came here. He said it's a necessity here now. And it is. I'm sure he'd love to have just the Freeman/Coleman combo again and use the 2 extra RB roster spots elsewhere.

So the Redskins Browns and Falcons only carried 2 running backs on their roster?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Kyle believes or Kyle has , and he has done it at a very high level

your're posting as if it were 2017 still

Not at all. I just noted Kyle has found success with it. But like I said, it's not a formula for getting over the hump IMHO. And Kyle doesn't appear to 'see it' like he does with RB (example) or Lynch at DL. It's a blind spot.

Yet you can start the season with all all pros and finish the season with none of those guys starting

Sure. But if they prioritized OL like RB and DL we'd still be in good shape with the talent and depth and stockpiling strategy they employed over 6 off seasons. Of course they'd also have to have an eye for talent at OL and draft/develop very well too. They'd probably have a bunch of veteran players like Hyder, Willis, Key, Nkemdiche, Omenihu and Hurts to step in when/if needed as well to push the starters, add insurance and add to the meeting room and mentoring. They'd also have the equivalent of a Bobby Turner, John Lynch and Kris Kocurek on the OL side too.

It's been a priority, the last two drafts,trades and FA signings

Originally posted by NCommand:
1. They have an excellent eye for talent there
2. They had Holland/Ryans to develop and coach them up
3. You only need 2 starters. The SAM could even be a SS if need be.

As a result, they are 5 deep and probably the best LB unit in the NFL.

They are not 5 deep. Flanagan Fowler is not a starting caliber LB. Burks "might" be.

But so we are clear you are suggesting different groups can have a different process based on how the unit is used. I.E. because you don't rotate multiple linebackers snaps and only need a set amount that it stands to reason you wouldn't add a Jordan Willis or Kerry Hyder level type as a backup.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Why do people keep comparing everything to Wirfs? Seriously, who cares about Wirfs. It's not even remotely an apples to apples comparison. You can't talk about other teams and how their players if we're talking about similar systems and pro player acquisition philosophy. Wirfs is not my gold standard or something. This is beyond just the pick of one player but how a run-first team over years has dealt with one position group that has statistically struggled when it needed to win. No, not every position will have someone pushing but it's rare in camp that NO ONE in an entire position group is being pushed when the starting group is not just new to a team, but new to NFL. Wirfs joined an OL that had vets on it with a couple players away. We're not talking about that at all with this group.

We did the same in 2018. McG was the designated RT. No complaints there. We were a rebuilding team. We are not a rebuilding team in 2022. Everyone is talking/expecting playoffs.

Can someone name one team in the playoff discussion that has as little experience in the NFL as the 49ers? No other team is doing what we're doing that's in the playoffs discussion category.

Chiefs just did it last year. 2 vets 3 rookies and their Daniel Brunskill OT in Austin Wylie.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, that was never an issue until he came here. He said it's a necessity here now. And it is. I'm sure he'd love to have just the Freeman/Coleman combo again and use the 2 extra RB roster spots elsewhere.

So the Redskins Browns and Falcons only carried 2 running backs on their roster?

You tell me. And who cares about elsewhere?

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Chiefs just did it last year. 2 vets 3 rookies and their Daniel Brunskill OT in Austin Wylie.

Is this your new goal post strategy? Pivoting to every other team under the sun?

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by dlance:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So do a pie chart and have some fun.

Is it subjective if it becomes fact over multiple years? There's only 3 people on the planet who wouldn't admit the OL was a big reason for the loss. Maybe less now.

And the failure wasn't just on the players. They did the best they could. They just weren't very talented IMHO and all the playoff numbers back that up. The real failure was on the FO over many years.

But if you do want to talk about other failed units too I could just as easily talk about the FO again since once again, the defense collectively failed again in the 4Q despite a FO that spent years and years and years of resources to build up for a defense that could close out games. So did they fail because of a talent deficiency, scheme/coaching, and/or player execution?

They all failed equally so then it's an equal failure across the board right?

What people said the OL wasn't a factor for the loss? Now YOU are the one making things up. That's never happened.

Which players weren't very talented?

Equally? That's subjective but the discussion yesterday was the QB and OL should be equal on the pie chart. My issue wasn't about the weight but ensuring all the elements were included in the pie. But that's just me.

OK, what weight would you give the QB and OL?

Playoffs: Brunskill and Compton are not talented and Tomlinson reverted back to being poor in PP again. Mack was solid...average. Trent was injured. And together they couldn't run or pass block.

The O line was definitely not good enough to overcome two injured starting tackles.

Well really No team can really over come losing both tackles, The issue I have is Trent William get hurt almost every year. He is going to miss games and they did nothing for when he is out. MM is coming off serious injury what if he is not ready for the start of the year or get hurt early and is out. They will be lining up 2 back up tackles. If anyone ells get hurt at that point there in real trouble. All the OL depth is later round talent. There is no one pushing the starter for a job. Over the years they should have put a little less on the DL and a Little more on the OL in the draft.

Strong post!

This sentence jumped off the page and is one the big reasons why I also think OL isn't going to be good. There's really no competition for starters like at ALL and it's because penciled in starters are demonstrably good or stalwarts, it's just been given. If Aaron Banks isn't very good they're screwed. No one is really pushing him. No one is pushing Brunskill at 2 positions (C and RG) and he's being moved out of necessity. Buford isn't being pushed only if maybe Brendel can play OG. Poe, Zjakel, West, Moore - they're all playing for back-up spots this season.

On the DL, Jackson, Willis, Turay, Ebukam, and Omenihu all are in fierce competition for snaps AND being pushed by Hyder who can play both inside and outside well in this scheme. It's not even the rotation, the competition has to be one the best in the NFL right now.

That's been a huge concern for me too. Even after 5 off seasons, who was pushing Tomlinson, Brunskill and McGlinchey? Who was learning from Mack?

Oh well. All new crop now.

Who was pushing Whirfs last year? Why weren't they a difference maker in the playoffs when Whirfs went down? I mean, who the hell has so much talent on the O line that they have backups truly pushing the starters for jobs? It seems to be an unrealistic expectation. Injuries suck and we have been one of the unluckiest teams when it comes to health over the last 4 years.

I honestly do not know what they see in Brunskill. He is the only one that I can honestly agree with you on. Tomlinson played well last season but had 2 terrible games in the post season. Was he worth his asking price? Obviously not in the eyes of our FO but he did get paid elsewhere. McGlinchey is a former 1st round selection who was playing well before his injury last year.

They do have a bunch of young guys that we really do not know much about. Lets see what these guys look like when the pads come on and our starting tackles are actually in the lineup.

Why do people keep comparing everything to Wirfs? Seriously, who cares about Wirfs. It's not even remotely an apples to apples comparison. You can't talk about other teams and how their players if we're talking about similar systems and pro player acquisition philosophy. Wirfs is not my gold standard or something. This is beyond just the pick of one player but how a run-first team over years has dealt with one position group that has statistically struggled when it needed to win. No, not every position will have someone pushing but it's rare in camp that NO ONE in an entire position group is being pushed when the starting group is not just new to a team, but new to NFL. Wirfs joined an OL that had vets on it with a couple players away. We're not talking about that at all with this group.

We did the same in 2018. McG was the designated RT. No complaints there. We were a rebuilding team. We are not a rebuilding team in 2022. Everyone is talking/expecting playoffs.

Can someone name one team in the playoff discussion that has as little experience in the NFL as the 49ers? No other team is doing what we're doing that's in the playoffs discussion category.

He was giving an example with wirfs and how others don't prioritize OL like some here expect

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
It's been a priority, the last two drafts,trades and FA signings

K.

Packers have both tackles on pup recuperating from acl injuries. Didn't address OL until the 3rd and took a guy more suited for guard. Could be starting undrafted Yosh Njiman again with a 4th rounder depending on what happens.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Chiefs just did it last year. 2 vets 3 rookies and their Daniel Brunskill OT in Austin Wylie.

Is this your new goal post strategy? Pivoting to every other team under the sun?

He's just giving you facts which you are refusing to reciprocate

Originally posted by NCommand:
Is this your new goal post strategy? Pivoting to every other team under the sun?

He asked a direct question.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
1. They have an excellent eye for talent there
2. They had Holland/Ryans to develop and coach them up
3. You only need 2 starters. The SAM could even be a SS if need be.

As a result, they are 5 deep and probably the best LB unit in the NFL.

They are not 5 deep. Flanagan Fowler is not a starting caliber LB. Burks "might" be.

But so we are clear you are suggesting different groups can have a different process based on how the unit is used. I.E. because you don't rotate multiple linebackers snaps and only need a set amount that it stands to reason you wouldn't add a Jordan Willis or Kerry Hyder level type as a backup.

They're very high on DFF and he'll probably make the team in plans for losing either Greenlaw or Azeez. He's just a SAM but also plays ST well too. More in the pipeline.