49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
banks and burford look okay actually, hopefully they keep progressing ????

They do look pretty good and getting better. Really anxious to see how they play in the joint practices. Buford was great in PP.

Same. You can see both Banks and Burford have legit talent. This isn't a McKivitz, Skule, Grassi, Compton, Person-like situation where talent is very much lacking and they are already tapped out; they get worse with time.

These dudes have real talent and upside and just need more experience. They still have to "do it" but so far, it's very encouraging.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I agree. I think one of the problems is that the OLine has to have five guys operate as one unit. Integrating them and melding them into one unit is different from all other position groups like LB's, DLine, WR's and RB's. It takes a good coach to coach the individual and also coach the group as a whole.

Durability, i think, is a much bigger factor in this offense vs other offenses. Other offenses can plug and play (like power schemes) but in this offense that employs both zone and power, losing a guy like Richburg or McGlinchey to injury affects it more than most. I'm on board with Talent Stacking the OLine for that reason. You have to have that conveyor belt of talent to keep feeding the OLine squad.

https://www.milehighreport.com/22451001/difference-between-zone-and-gap-scheme

Every team in the league used zone blocking at least 46% of the time in 2020. Imagine it only went up in 2021. There is no gap only scheme.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
There is a shortage of quality offensive linemen coming out of college these days. It is a total crapshoot outside of the occasional "white buffalo" who is a bona-fide star offensive lineman. It's been this way for years now, there have been articles for at least a decade explaining how the college game has shifted towards spread offenses where guys aren't trained to hold their blocks for more than three seconds, so they come to the pros still needing development to get pro ready.
I thought, aside from Skule, the line was okay. Brendel, Banks, and Burford (sounds like a law firm) all looked pretty good overall.

I just want to respond and say not everyone in the NFL from a coaching stand point believes this.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2463172-lack-of-offensive-line-development-in-nfl-falls-on-league-coaches.amp.html

LOL. We've had 6 full off seasons to recognize the annual injuries and draft/trade/buy accordingly.

Sometimes you just need to stack talent and keep trying until you've reached the standard.

Hopefully they've seen the light and attack it going forward. They're usually a year or two late in position group weakness recognition (WR, ER, QB, ER, CB, ST).

Just because people keep saying "it's league wide" and "there's a shortage of talent" doesn't make it so. It's NOT a universally held opinion throughout the NFL and even our OL coach doesn't believe that stuff. Listen to that interview that was posted above. If anything Forester believes there talent galore.

True. It's not like we needed to add 10 all pro players. We always had one HOF T and a quality one in MM they took in the first. They just needed to add 3-5 talented OL over 6 years. Buy/trade/develop. These guys are acting like we need to be 15 deep like on the DL annually.

But that's in the past...let's see how it goes now.

So far so good. Hope they're all healthy so we can see them against real starters.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
There is a shortage of quality offensive linemen coming out of college these days. It is a total crapshoot outside of the occasional "white buffalo" who is a bona-fide star offensive lineman. It's been this way for years now, there have been articles for at least a decade explaining how the college game has shifted towards spread offenses where guys aren't trained to hold their blocks for more than three seconds, so they come to the pros still needing development to get pro ready.
I thought, aside from Skule, the line was okay. Brendel, Banks, and Burford (sounds like a law firm) all looked pretty good overall.

I just want to respond and say not everyone in the NFL from a coaching stand point believes this.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2463172-lack-of-offensive-line-development-in-nfl-falls-on-league-coaches.amp.html

LOL. We've had 6 full off seasons to recognize the annual injuries and draft/trade/buy accordingly.

Sometimes you just need to stack talent and keep trying until you've reached the standard.

Hopefully they've seen the light and attack it going forward. They're usually a year or two late in position group weakness recognition (WR, ER, QB, ER, CB, ST).

Just because people keep saying "it's league wide" and "there's a shortage of talent" doesn't make it so. It's NOT a universally held opinion throughout the NFL and even our OL coach doesn't believe that stuff. Listen to that interview that was posted above. If anything Forester believes there talent galore.

True. It's not like we needed to add 10 all pro players. We always had one HOF T and a quality one in MM they took in the first. They just needed to add 3-5 talented OL over 6 years. Buy/trade/develop. These guys are acting like we need to be 15 deep like on the DL annually.

But that's in the past...let's see how it goes now.

Who's acting like we need 15 deep ?

BTW, speaking of Mike McGlinchey, I might have some bad news. Via Chris Biderman's podcast today, Mike McGlinchey is doing another round of PRP injections. He's been doing this for a couple years now and this is unrelated to his quad tendon surgery. Mike said he basically is learning to play with a new knee.

That might be the real "knee irritation" thing.

I don't want to overblow this but we've seen this dance with injured players before leading up to game 1.

Fingers crossed because if he can't go, there could be quite the domino effect.

Originally posted by NCommand:
BTW, speaking of Mike McGlinchey, I might have some bad news. Via Chris Biderman's podcast today, Mike McGlinchey is doing another round of PRP injections. He's been doing this for a couple years now and this is unrelated to his quad tendon surgery. Mike said he basically is learning to play with a new knee.

That might be the real "knee irritation" thing.

I don't want to overblow this but we've seen this dance with injured players before leading up to game 1.

Fingers crossed because if he can't go, there could be quite the domino effect.

they've got three weeks to get Jordan Mills up to speed.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by NCommand:
BTW, speaking of Mike McGlinchey, I might have some bad news. Via Chris Biderman's podcast today, Mike McGlinchey is doing another round of PRP injections. He's been doing this for a couple years now and this is unrelated to his quad tendon surgery. Mike said he basically is learning to play with a new knee.

That might be the real "knee irritation" thing.

I don't want to overblow this but we've seen this dance with injured players before leading up to game 1.

Fingers crossed because if he can't go, there could be quite the domino effect.

they've got three weeks to get Jordan Mills up to speed.

He's looked really good so far. We did see Tom Compton step in for MM no problem until the playoffs. Maybe Mills would be better.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
There is a shortage of quality offensive linemen coming out of college these days. It is a total crapshoot outside of the occasional "white buffalo" who is a bona-fide star offensive lineman. It's been this way for years now, there have been articles for at least a decade explaining how the college game has shifted towards spread offenses where guys aren't trained to hold their blocks for more than three seconds, so they come to the pros still needing development to get pro ready.
I thought, aside from Skule, the line was okay. Brendel, Banks, and Burford (sounds like a law firm) all looked pretty good overall.

I just want to respond and say not everyone in the NFL from a coaching stand point believes this.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2463172-lack-of-offensive-line-development-in-nfl-falls-on-league-coaches.amp.html

LOL. We've had 6 full off seasons to recognize the annual injuries and draft/trade/buy accordingly.

Sometimes you just need to stack talent and keep trying until you've reached the standard.

Hopefully they've seen the light and attack it going forward. They're usually a year or two late in position group weakness recognition (WR, ER, QB, ER, CB, ST).

going back to 2011,,, we keep saying,,, we HOPE they address pass protection.. but we just denying the issue and say things like.. hits on the qb and sacks are over rated... oh... a better qb like ck and jimmy will make it better.. we saw that theory blow up and now some posters are saying the damn same thing with trey

Originally posted by cciowa:
going back to 2011,,, we keep saying,,, we HOPE they address pass protection.. but we just denying the issue and say things like.. hits on the qb and sacks are over rated... oh... a better qb like ck and jimmy will make it better.. we saw that theory blow up and now some posters are saying the damn same thing with trey

The qb's pocket presence on Friday made a tremendous difference. It was night and day from what we got from Jimmy/CJ/Nick. It's absolutely a factor.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I agree. I think one of the problems is that the OLine has to have five guys operate as one unit. Integrating them and melding them into one unit is different from all other position groups like LB's, DLine, WR's and RB's. It takes a good coach to coach the individual and also coach the group as a whole.

Durability, i think, is a much bigger factor in this offense vs other offenses. Other offenses can plug and play (like power schemes) but in this offense that employs both zone and power, losing a guy like Richburg or McGlinchey to injury affects it more than most. I'm on board with Talent Stacking the OLine for that reason. You have to have that conveyor belt of talent to keep feeding the OLine squad.

https://www.milehighreport.com/22451001/difference-between-zone-and-gap-scheme

Every team in the league used zone blocking at least 46% of the time in 2020. Imagine it only went up in 2021. There is no gap only scheme.

There is only *one* Shanahan- he's not in every NFL team. He employs one of the most complex OLine blocking schemes in the NFL. Other teams just can't match that complexity or the deception aspect of it. You lose a starter on the OLine, that definitely hurts any team. However on this team you lose that knowledge and experience on top of the physical talent. The option blocking between kittle and juice is a small example of what this OLine does on a daily basis with each other.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by NCommand:
BTW, speaking of Mike McGlinchey, I might have some bad news. Via Chris Biderman's podcast today, Mike McGlinchey is doing another round of PRP injections. He's been doing this for a couple years now and this is unrelated to his quad tendon surgery. Mike said he basically is learning to play with a new knee.

That might be the real "knee irritation" thing.

I don't want to overblow this but we've seen this dance with injured players before leading up to game 1.

Fingers crossed because if he can't go, there could be quite the domino effect.

they've got three weeks to get Jordan Mills up to speed.

Yep and they need to sit McG and just give Mills the reps. He'll need them!

Wow, it looks like the McG experiment is almost over. They didn't extend Mike's contract for a good reason, I think.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
There is a shortage of quality offensive linemen coming out of college these days. It is a total crapshoot outside of the occasional "white buffalo" who is a bona-fide star offensive lineman. It's been this way for years now, there have been articles for at least a decade explaining how the college game has shifted towards spread offenses where guys aren't trained to hold their blocks for more than three seconds, so they come to the pros still needing development to get pro ready.
I thought, aside from Skule, the line was okay. Brendel, Banks, and Burford (sounds like a law firm) all looked pretty good overall.

I just want to respond and say not everyone in the NFL from a coaching stand point believes this.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2463172-lack-of-offensive-line-development-in-nfl-falls-on-league-coaches.amp.html

I agree. I think one of the problems is that the OLine has to have five guys operate as one unit. Integrating them and melding them into one unit is different from all other position groups like LB's, DLine, WR's and RB's. It takes a good coach to coach the individual and also coach the group as a whole.

Durability, i think, is a much bigger factor in this offense vs other offenses. Other offenses can plug and play (like power schemes) but in this offense that employs both zone and power, losing a guy like Richburg or McGlinchey to injury affects it more than most. I'm on board with Talent Stacking the OLine for that reason. You have to have that conveyor belt of talent to keep feeding the OLine squad.

Thank you Giedi 100% agree - I know some here struggle with complex concepts as many things can be true without being mutually exclusive.

Just wanted to add Giedi, I do get the complexity of what you're saying:

Because we run O-zone, more specifically Kyle's version of OZ, more than other teams, it's a lot easier for those teams to plug and play. Kyle's version IS NOT a plug and play scheme and you're absolutely right about "integrating them and melding them into one unit."

From SI:

The difference with Shanahan's offense and its various clones is that it's extraordinarily difficult to teach, especially up front, because, for offensive linemen, most of the required movements are unique to this scheme. Blocking schemes require specific personnel that exclude a lot of standard, lumbering type linemen. Some of the most critical blocks cannot be practiced, because the backside "cutting" techniques, which ask an offensive lineman to dive at the turf, tripping a chasing defender at the hips, are too dangerous to try out on fellow teammates who could easily sustain lower body injuries.

So, having the playbook and the play-caller is one thing. Having the person, or people, to turn some chemically doctored brown swill into whiskey? That's a different issue altogether, leaving some to wonder whether there's a coaching crisis on our hands, or just a bunch of premature spirits waiting to ripen.

"It's gonna take you years, it's not going to happen overnight," Mike Shanahan told Sports Illustrated recently from his vacation spot in Cabo. "You gotta believe in it. You gotta be a product of the environment. It's gonna take time."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/08/16/why-its-hard-to-copycat-the-shanahan-style-offense-daily-cover

Great points! Love the article! It's in my website saved file! NinerGM!

Originally posted by Giedi:
Wow, it looks like the McG experiment is almost over. They didn't extend Mike's contract for a good reason, I think.

Yep the VERY early needs list for next year the way I see it are RT and safety.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I just want to respond and say not everyone in the NFL from a coaching stand point believes this.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2463172-lack-of-offensive-line-development-in-nfl-falls-on-league-coaches.amp.html

I never said everyone agrees, but it is the general consensus around the league and has been for a long time.