49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
You can go through and see TEs have not been churned through due to system.
As far as the OL and RB, again you would need to go through how each of these injuries occurred to prove it is scheme related. And yes using other teams schemes as a pint of reference absolutely factors into this.
Does offensive scheme also carry over to injuries to the rest of the team that are not on offensive side?
Again, you have too many theories out there presented as fact. I've seen you say on various occasions it's player training or medical staff or Kyle and soft practices or injury prone players or even the DJs fault lol.

How is a theory a fact?

Like I said, you have your own license to come to your own conclusions as well. I manage the injury thread so this theory didn't come out of nowhere. It's just something I've noticed...Kyle as well, obviously.

I did, I went in and disproved the TE piece. But as others said, the onus is on you. I'm genuinely curious how this scheme churns through players
In the injury thread you've said it's a litany of reasons depending on the day, as stated above. I think that's some of where the confusion stems from

In the amount of time you've been debating you could have just looked it up yourself. Here you go. These are the unique players on the 53 over just the past 5 years. You tell me if you think this is a large volume or not.

A. Banks OL
A. Mack OL
B. Fusco OL
B. Garland OL
C. McKivitz OL
D. Brunskill OL
D. Kilgore OL
D. Shepley OL
D. Williams OL
E. Magnuson OL
G. Gilliam OL
H. Grasu OL
I. Williams OL
J. Brendel OL
J. Garnett OL
J. Moore OL
J. Skule OL
J. Staley OL
J. Theus OL
L. Tomlinson OL
M. McGlinchey OL
M. Person OL
N. Toran OL
S. Coleman OL
S. Young OL
T. Barnes OL
T. Bergstrom OL
T. Brown OL
T. Compton OL
T. Williams OL
W. Richburg OL
Z. Beadles OL
K. Juszczyk FB
A. Morris RB
A. Walter RB
B. Hill RB
C. Hyde RB
E. Mitchell RB
J. Hasty RB
J. McKinnon RB
J. McNichols RB
J. Patrick RB
J. Wilson RB
K. Johnson RB
M. Breida RB
M. Dayes RB
R. Mostert RB
T. Cannon RB
T. Coleman RB
T. Sermon RB
C. Wick TE
C. Woerner TE
D. Helm TE
G. Celek TE
G. Kittle TE
J. Reed TE
L. Toilolo TE
R. Dwelley TE
T. Hudson TE

PS: A handful of these guys didn't play but had to be brought on d/t injuries/insurance.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Good to see MM still practicing . Fingers crossed

I know…

For sure!

practice is over now, time for IR

the system was just too much

Cost him his career. (hoping for reverse psychology here).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Its obvious we have gone through a lot of O lineman in the past 6 years. But how does it compare to other regimes around the NFL? If we don't have numbers to actually compare than it is nothing more than an assumption that we go through them at a higher rate.

The theory wasn't in comparison to other teams. It was noting this system here. There's no secret this system here eats through OL, TE's and RB's.

Even QB's. But that's another topic. Haha.

We have had the same #1 TE since the beginning of the Kyle Shanahan era. Are you really arguing about numbers 2's who don't see a lot of playing time?

As far as RB's, I would argue that no other system in the NFL has proven to get as much production from UDRFA RB's than Kyle. Who cares if they only last 1-2 seasons? They are cheap and seem to be a dime a dozen for this system.

When it comes to OL, it would be disingenuous to diminish the importance of comparing the rate of turnover with this team/system and other teams/systems.

No, I'm theorizing the volume of players used to execute and get through a season at those 3 positions over the past 6 years is incredibly large. That speaks to volume and complexity within the system. What, how and how much can = more risk of injury. You obviously see that now with OL but you can't with RB and TE and by default "the offensive system?" Or philosophy within it?

Incredibly large compared to what? What have I obviously seen now with the OL? I see players get hurt every Sunday. No team is immune. You know damn well I can be persuaded to take another stance. If you have actual numbers to compare than I would be inclined to side with you if your argument was proven by statistical analysis.

Your own quote.

Its obvious we have gone through a lot of O lineman in the past 6 years.

Compared to what though? Its relevant to know whether its excessive or in line with the rest of the league. I could say $1000.00 is a lot of money but compared to someone who makes 200k+ a year, it might just be a normal weekend with the boys.

If you feel the need to compare our system and injuries to others, you're welcomed too. The Rams run a pass centric version of Kyle's offense and they are annually the #1 healthiest team in the league. My theory was never comparing us to others.

Like injuries, it's recognizing what happens here annually in this system and protecting yourself for the inevitable. Kyle is getting it. It doesn't sound like our fans are there quite yet?

You can also look across the league to see who carries 10 OL (only need to carry 8 active on game days and that includes call ups from the PS), 4-6 RB's + FB and 3-4 TE's in volume combination.

Kyle chooses the 53 and he's telling you how he's going to play it and how much he needs to make it through the year doing it.

Pass centric started last year with stafford. Let's use 2020 as a point of reference when the niners were decimated
Niners-537 passing attempts and 430 rushing attempts
Rams-548 passing attempts and 388 rushing attempts

Sure. They were #1 in health and we were 29th.

For whatever reason, volume+complexity+reliance (my theory) = eating through those positions Kyle leans on heavily in his system.

So why do you think they consistently have less injuries to those positions than us despite running the same system?

Lol how would I know? I just gave you an example of a year they were passing/running essentially the same with a similar scheme and the rams didn't get injured, so that would seem to disprove your scheme theory

I said numerous times, the scheme/philosophy HERE.

If YOU want to figure out why our scheme eats through these positions in our scheme by using other teams as a reference, I'm all for it.

I'm simply giving you the end results...and not ignoring them.

c.mon NC.. you can't even explain those end results.. thats what we are asking

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Its obvious we have gone through a lot of O lineman in the past 6 years. But how does it compare to other regimes around the NFL? If we don't have numbers to actually compare than it is nothing more than an assumption that we go through them at a higher rate.

The theory wasn't in comparison to other teams. It was noting this system here. There's no secret this system here eats through OL, TE's and RB's.

Even QB's. But that's another topic. Haha.

We have had the same #1 TE since the beginning of the Kyle Shanahan era. Are you really arguing about numbers 2's who don't see a lot of playing time?

As far as RB's, I would argue that no other system in the NFL has proven to get as much production from UDRFA RB's than Kyle. Who cares if they only last 1-2 seasons? They are cheap and seem to be a dime a dozen for this system.

When it comes to OL, it would be disingenuous to diminish the importance of comparing the rate of turnover with this team/system and other teams/systems.

No, I'm theorizing the volume of players used to execute and get through a season at those 3 positions over the past 6 years is incredibly large. That speaks to volume and complexity within the system. What, how and how much can = more risk of injury. You obviously see that now with OL but you can't with RB and TE and by default "the offensive system?" Or philosophy within it?

Incredibly large compared to what? What have I obviously seen now with the OL? I see players get hurt every Sunday. No team is immune. You know damn well I can be persuaded to take another stance. If you have actual numbers to compare than I would be inclined to side with you if your argument was proven by statistical analysis.

Your own quote.

Its obvious we have gone through a lot of O lineman in the past 6 years.

Compared to what though? Its relevant to know whether its excessive or in line with the rest of the league. I could say $1000.00 is a lot of money but compared to someone who makes 200k+ a year, it might just be a normal weekend with the boys.

If you feel the need to compare our system and injuries to others, you're welcomed too. The Rams run a pass centric version of Kyle's offense and they are annually the #1 healthiest team in the league. My theory was never comparing us to others.

Like injuries, it's recognizing what happens here annually in this system and protecting yourself for the inevitable. Kyle is getting it. It doesn't sound like our fans are there quite yet?

You can also look across the league to see who carries 10 OL (only need to carry 8 active on game days and that includes call ups from the PS), 4-6 RB's + FB and 3-4 TE's in volume combination.

Kyle chooses the 53 and he's telling you how he's going to play it and how much he needs to make it through the year doing it.

Pass centric started last year with stafford. Let's use 2020 as a point of reference when the niners were decimated
Niners-537 passing attempts and 430 rushing attempts
Rams-548 passing attempts and 388 rushing attempts

Sure. They were #1 in health and we were 29th.

For whatever reason, volume+complexity+reliance (my theory) = eating through those positions Kyle leans on heavily in his system.

So why do you think they consistently have less injuries to those positions than us despite running the same system?

Lol how would I know? I just gave you an example of a year they were passing/running essentially the same with a similar scheme and the rams didn't get injured, so that would seem to disprove your scheme theory

I said numerous times, the scheme/philosophy HERE.

If YOU want to figure out why our scheme eats through these positions in our scheme by using other teams as a reference, I'm all for it.

I'm simply giving you the end results...and not ignoring them.

c.mon NC.. you can't even explain those end results.. thats what we are asking

--- look 2 posts back, All.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
You can go through and see TEs have not been churned through due to system.
As far as the OL and RB, again you would need to go through how each of these injuries occurred to prove it is scheme related. And yes using other teams schemes as a pint of reference absolutely factors into this.
Does offensive scheme also carry over to injuries to the rest of the team that are not on offensive side?
Again, you have too many theories out there presented as fact. I've seen you say on various occasions it's player training or medical staff or Kyle and soft practices or injury prone players or even the DJs fault lol.

How is a theory a fact?

Like I said, you have your own license to come to your own conclusions as well. I manage the injury thread so this theory didn't come out of nowhere. It's just something I've noticed...Kyle as well, obviously.

I did, I went in and disproved the TE piece. But as others said, the onus is on you. I'm genuinely curious how this scheme churns through players
In the injury thread you've said it's a litany of reasons depending on the day, as stated above. I think that's some of where the confusion stems from

In the amount of time you've been debating you could have just looked it up yourself. Here you go. These are the unique players on the 53 over just the past 5 years. You tell me if you think this is a large volume or not.

A. Banks OL
A. Mack OL
B. Fusco OL
B. Garland OL
C. McKivitz OL
D. Brunskill OL
D. Kilgore OL
D. Shepley OL
D. Williams OL
E. Magnuson OL
G. Gilliam OL
H. Grasu OL
I. Williams OL
J. Brendel OL
J. Garnett OL
J. Moore OL
J. Skule OL
J. Staley OL
J. Theus OL
L. Tomlinson OL
M. McGlinchey OL
M. Person OL
N. Toran OL
S. Coleman OL
S. Young OL
T. Barnes OL
T. Bergstrom OL
T. Brown OL
T. Compton OL
T. Williams OL
W. Richburg OL
Z. Beadles OL
K. Juszczyk FB
A. Morris RB
A. Walter RB
B. Hill RB
C. Hyde RB
E. Mitchell RB
J. Hasty RB
J. McKinnon RB
J. McNichols RB
J. Patrick RB
J. Wilson RB
K. Johnson RB
M. Breida RB
M. Dayes RB
R. Mostert RB
T. Cannon RB
T. Coleman RB
T. Sermon RB
C. Wick TE
C. Woerner TE
D. Helm TE
G. Celek TE
G. Kittle TE
J. Reed TE
L. Toilolo TE
R. Dwelley TE
T. Hudson TE

Not sure how you think this proves the scheme eats through players, but ok

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
You can go through and see TEs have not been churned through due to system.
As far as the OL and RB, again you would need to go through how each of these injuries occurred to prove it is scheme related. And yes using other teams schemes as a pint of reference absolutely factors into this.
Does offensive scheme also carry over to injuries to the rest of the team that are not on offensive side?
Again, you have too many theories out there presented as fact. I've seen you say on various occasions it's player training or medical staff or Kyle and soft practices or injury prone players or even the DJs fault lol.

How is a theory a fact?

Like I said, you have your own license to come to your own conclusions as well. I manage the injury thread so this theory didn't come out of nowhere. It's just something I've noticed...Kyle as well, obviously.

I did, I went in and disproved the TE piece. But as others said, the onus is on you. I'm genuinely curious how this scheme churns through players
In the injury thread you've said it's a litany of reasons depending on the day, as stated above. I think that's some of where the confusion stems from

In the amount of time you've been debating you could have just looked it up yourself. Here you go. These are the unique players on the 53 over just the past 5 years. You tell me if you think this is a large volume or not.

A. Banks OL
A. Mack OL
B. Fusco OL
B. Garland OL
C. McKivitz OL
D. Brunskill OL
D. Kilgore OL
D. Shepley OL
D. Williams OL
E. Magnuson OL
G. Gilliam OL
H. Grasu OL
I. Williams OL
J. Brendel OL
J. Garnett OL
J. Moore OL
J. Skule OL
J. Staley OL
J. Theus OL
L. Tomlinson OL
M. McGlinchey OL
M. Person OL
N. Toran OL
S. Coleman OL
S. Young OL
T. Barnes OL
T. Bergstrom OL
T. Brown OL
T. Compton OL
T. Williams OL
W. Richburg OL
Z. Beadles OL
K. Juszczyk FB
A. Morris RB
A. Walter RB
B. Hill RB
C. Hyde RB
E. Mitchell RB
J. Hasty RB
J. McKinnon RB
J. McNichols RB
J. Patrick RB
J. Wilson RB
K. Johnson RB
M. Breida RB
M. Dayes RB
R. Mostert RB
T. Cannon RB
T. Coleman RB
T. Sermon RB
C. Wick TE
C. Woerner TE
D. Helm TE
G. Celek TE
G. Kittle TE
J. Reed TE
L. Toilolo TE
R. Dwelley TE
T. Hudson TE

Not sure how you think this proves the scheme eats through players, but ok

Such an expected Hoov response after getting the evidence he so badly requested.

Maybe Kyle just liked to use so many players over the past 5 years to gear up for a year 6 Superbowl win...just used the last 5 years as an extended pre season.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Such an expected Hoov response after getting the evidence he so badly requested.

What evidence? What you posted proves squat. You want to go through all the DBs they've gone through?
You want to go through kittles injuries and the other TEs games played?
I'll ask you again, does the offensive scheme eating through players carry over to non offense positions?

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Such an expected Hoov response after getting the evidence he so badly requested.

What evidence? What you posted proves squat. You want to go through all the DBs they've gone through?
You want to go through kittles injuries and the other TEs games played?
I'll ask you again, does the offensive scheme eating through players carry over to non offense positions?

Having 32 different OL over 5 years on the 53 man roster doesn't prove this system here eats through OL? Wow...must be nice living in your Rainbows and Unicorns world on the Denial River.

You're on your own now. You asked. As always, I provide. You ignore. It's what we do.

So I guess the injuries aren't due to kyles soft practices, or poor player maintenance or poor medical staff. Impressive the scheme translates over to the defensive side of the ball

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
So I guess the injuries aren't due to kyles soft practices, or poor player maintenance or poor medical staff. Impressive the scheme translates over to the defensive side of the ball

All gas, no brakes. Hell yeah we've had a ton on the defensive side too. It's a full team effort!

I could put the list together for you on the defensive side if you want. Haha. You can call it scheme-related if you want.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
So I guess the injuries aren't due to kyles soft practices, or poor player maintenance or poor medical staff. Impressive the scheme translates over to the defensive side of the ball

All gas, no brakes. Hell yeah we've had a ton on the defensive side too. It's a full team effort!

I could put the list together for you on the defensive side if you want. Haha. You can call it scheme-related if you want.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Good to see MM still practicing . Fingers crossed

I know…

For sure!

if he lasts one quarter vs the Bears it will be beyond all of our expectations

I have no expectations - of him playing this year, so yeah, fingers crossed, eyes crossed, legs crossed, teeth crossed, hair crossed. Did I miss anything?

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
So I guess the injuries aren't due to kyles soft practices, or poor player maintenance or poor medical staff. Impressive the scheme translates over to the defensive side of the ball

All gas, no brakes. Hell yeah we've had a ton on the defensive side too. It's a full team effort!

I could put the list together for you on the defensive side if you want. Haha. You can call it scheme-related if you want.

Hell yeah.

I can't effing wait for this year's unit!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Such an expected Hoov response after getting the evidence he so badly requested.

What evidence? What you posted proves squat. You want to go through all the DBs they've gone through?
You want to go through kittles injuries and the other TEs games played?
I'll ask you again, does the offensive scheme eating through players carry over to non offense positions?

Having 32 different OL over 5 years on the 53 man roster doesn't prove this system here eats through OL? Wow...must be nice living in your Rainbows and Unicorns world on the Denial River.

You're on your own now. You asked. As always, I provide. You ignore. It's what we do.

What did you actually provide?

Someone can say Levi's turf eats through our OL and say it's proof. No evidence has been provided and will not stand as fact until proven

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Its obvious we have gone through a lot of O lineman in the past 6 years. But how does it compare to other regimes around the NFL? If we don't have numbers to actually compare than it is nothing more than an assumption that we go through them at a higher rate.

The theory wasn't in comparison to other teams. It was noting this system here. There's no secret this system here eats through OL, TE's and RB's.

Even QB's. But that's another topic. Haha.

We have had the same #1 TE since the beginning of the Kyle Shanahan era. Are you really arguing about numbers 2's who don't see a lot of playing time?

As far as RB's, I would argue that no other system in the NFL has proven to get as much production from UDRFA RB's than Kyle. Who cares if they only last 1-2 seasons? They are cheap and seem to be a dime a dozen for this system.

When it comes to OL, it would be disingenuous to diminish the importance of comparing the rate of turnover with this team/system and other teams/systems.

No, I'm theorizing the volume of players used to execute and get through a season at those 3 positions over the past 6 years is incredibly large. That speaks to volume and complexity within the system. What, how and how much can = more risk of injury. You obviously see that now with OL but you can't with RB and TE and by default "the offensive system?" Or philosophy within it?

Incredibly large compared to what? What have I obviously seen now with the OL? I see players get hurt every Sunday. No team is immune. You know damn well I can be persuaded to take another stance. If you have actual numbers to compare than I would be inclined to side with you if your argument was proven by statistical analysis.

Your own quote.

Its obvious we have gone through a lot of O lineman in the past 6 years.

Compared to what though? Its relevant to know whether its excessive or in line with the rest of the league. I could say $1000.00 is a lot of money but compared to someone who makes 200k+ a year, it might just be a normal weekend with the boys.

If you feel the need to compare our system and injuries to others, you're welcomed too. The Rams run a pass centric version of Kyle's offense and they are annually the #1 healthiest team in the league. My theory was never comparing us to others.

Like injuries, it's recognizing what happens here annually in this system and protecting yourself for the inevitable. Kyle is getting it. It doesn't sound like our fans are there quite yet?

You can also look across the league to see who carries 10 OL (only need to carry 8 active on game days and that includes call ups from the PS), 4-6 RB's + FB and 3-4 TE's in volume combination.

Kyle chooses the 53 and he's telling you how he's going to play it and how much he needs to make it through the year doing it.

Pass centric started last year with stafford. Let's use 2020 as a point of reference when the niners were decimated
Niners-537 passing attempts and 430 rushing attempts
Rams-548 passing attempts and 388 rushing attempts

Sure. They were #1 in health and we were 29th.

For whatever reason, volume+complexity+reliance (my theory) = eating through those positions Kyle leans on heavily in his system.

So why do you think they consistently have less injuries to those positions than us despite running the same system?

It's an interesting hypothesis, that complexity can be the factor in having more OL injuries. I don't think comparing the amount of injuries with other teams' OLs is the way to test it. There are too many variables with the main variable being the players - some guys simply get injured easier. We need a medical expert to tell us if different blocking movements contribute to a higher chance of injury. Do the different movements asked of Kyle's OL put additional stress on their bodies? Outside/inside zone, combo block get to second level, drive block, block on edges, pass block, pull, all require different movements.

What types of injuries are the 49er OLmen suffering from, and did the play on which they were injured (scheme) a factor? For example, if an OLman is hurt running outside the tackle box, that can be considered a scheme factor since Kyle asks his OL to do this often (probably towards top of the league, just a guess). Look more at the team itself, not around the league tallying up OL injuries. imo.