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Originally posted by Giedi:
My 2 Cents. Bigger bones and ligaments can withstand bigger stress loads, all other things being equal. Smaller backs and OLinemen and DLinemen - less stress loads (all other things being equal). Hence *Generally speaking* - smaller people get injured more than big people. Kyle is moving away from smaller backs towards bigger backs like TDP and Mason who are 220+. Kocureck seems to like gap penetrator DLinemen (Kerry Hyder, for example) he's 275 when most DT's (if he's playing DT) are in the 290+ range. Smaller DLinemen - smaller ligaments and bones to withstand stress. Our offensive and defensive linemen, typically are smaller than most - IMO - in the past historically. That is why we load up on on OLinemen and DLinemen, because they are smaller and get more injured.

An RB size example: Mostert and Brieda were around sub 200, Frank Gore was 215+ and Frank worked out like hell in the offseason so his ligaments, muscles, and bones were probably bigger than any typical NFL RB - if you could compare them IMO. Stylistically - Kyle likes athletic linemen and generally they are smaller. I.e. Staley was a former TE who bulked up, vs a guy like Trent Brown (who doesn't fit Kyle's style of OLinemen) is naturally big and strong without having to bulk up. Same with McGlinchey, he has to bulk up to get to his 300+ weight.

Looks like Kyle is modifying his particular brand of offense to fit bigger players - who are still athletic. (Banks, Burford, Zakelj, Poe). Athletic enough to do what he wants to do in his offense, but much bigger naturally vs having to upsize a smaller but athletic person to be a bigger athletic person. (McGlinchey and Staley). His outside zone will still be a core philosophy, but I think he'll try to do it with bigger players. He'll mix in enough inside zone and power to keep defenses honest since those plays will also fit better with his much larger OLine players now.

This really doesn't work I don't get it. Trent Brown is any awesome player he is naturally a big man and he has missed 1 or more game 9 of his 11 seasons. The big difference is that when Mike Shanahan ran this type of offense in Denver and won. The O line was good. No other teams where drafting 290 LB linemen, so he had his pick of 290 LB linemen later in draft and they worked out. The rules for blocking where different. His teams won and other team took notice. Other teams started drafting lighter linemen and then the league started changing the rules for blocking. The average 290 Linemen is not as effective any more. Plus the really good 290LB O Linemen are drafted earlier now. Example being I do not think Tyler Linderbaum would have been a first round pick in late 90s or early 2000s . Shanahan would have drafted him in the 4th or 5th round and gotten a steal.
I may be a bit of an optimist and also a fan, but having a rookie right guard and a second year left guard may be the start of a solid and long lasting offensive line
Originally posted by Second2Nunley:
I may be a bit of an optimist and also a fan, but having a rookie right guard and a second year left guard may be the start of a solid and long lasting offensive line
Depends, I said if this unit can stay healthy and together for the majority of the season.. we can have one of the top lines going forward
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 33,368
Originally posted by dlance:
Originally posted by Giedi:
My 2 Cents. Bigger bones and ligaments can withstand bigger stress loads, all other things being equal. Smaller backs and OLinemen and DLinemen - less stress loads (all other things being equal). Hence *Generally speaking* - smaller people get injured more than big people. Kyle is moving away from smaller backs towards bigger backs like TDP and Mason who are 220+. Kocureck seems to like gap penetrator DLinemen (Kerry Hyder, for example) he's 275 when most DT's (if he's playing DT) are in the 290+ range. Smaller DLinemen - smaller ligaments and bones to withstand stress. Our offensive and defensive linemen, typically are smaller than most - IMO - in the past historically. That is why we load up on on OLinemen and DLinemen, because they are smaller and get more injured.

An RB size example: Mostert and Brieda were around sub 200, Frank Gore was 215+ and Frank worked out like hell in the offseason so his ligaments, muscles, and bones were probably bigger than any typical NFL RB - if you could compare them IMO. Stylistically - Kyle likes athletic linemen and generally they are smaller. I.e. Staley was a former TE who bulked up, vs a guy like Trent Brown (who doesn't fit Kyle's style of OLinemen) is naturally big and strong without having to bulk up. Same with McGlinchey, he has to bulk up to get to his 300+ weight.

Looks like Kyle is modifying his particular brand of offense to fit bigger players - who are still athletic. (Banks, Burford, Zakelj, Poe). Athletic enough to do what he wants to do in his offense, but much bigger naturally vs having to upsize a smaller but athletic person to be a bigger athletic person. (McGlinchey and Staley). His outside zone will still be a core philosophy, but I think he'll try to do it with bigger players. He'll mix in enough inside zone and power to keep defenses honest since those plays will also fit better with his much larger OLine players now.

This really doesn't work I don't get it. Trent Brown is any awesome player he is naturally a big man and he has missed 1 or more game 9 of his 11 seasons. The big difference is that when Mike Shanahan ran this type of offense in Denver and won. The O line was good. No other teams where drafting 290 LB linemen, so he had his pick of 290 LB linemen later in draft and they worked out. The rules for blocking where different. His teams won and other team took notice. Other teams started drafting lighter linemen and then the league started changing the rules for blocking. The average 290 Linemen is not as effective any more. Plus the really good 290LB O Linemen are drafted earlier now. Example being I do not think Tyler Linderbaum would have been a first round pick in late 90s or early 2000s . Shanahan would have drafted him in the 4th or 5th round and gotten a steal.

Coach Anthony Lynn on bigger bodies...

"We brought in some bigger guys this year," Lynn said via The Athletic. "And that was intentional. And bigger guys usually stay healthier than the smaller, speedier guys. I hope we don't have the injuries we had in the past. But I like the options we have."
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/158425-anthony-lynn-explains-how-tyrion-davis-price-help-49ers

Fatigue prevention and Conditioning are also important in injury prevention, in addition to the factor in disparity in size and strength of individuals in a contest or physical combat situation (as described by Coach Anthony Lynn above).
Muscle injury, particularly muscle strain, has been linked to fatigue. Different mechanisms may be responsible for fatigue under different conditions. The clinical value of the ongoing study of muscle fatigue is tremendous.
https://www.pmr.theclinics.com/article/S1047-9651(18)30135-9/fulltext

Muscle fatigue is a complex, multifactorial process. The causes of fatigue are classified as central, including brain and spinal cord mechanisms, and peripheral including peripheral nerve, neuromuscular junction, sarcolemma, excitation-contraction coupling, energy supply, and force generation mechanisms. Muscle injury, particularly muscle strain, has been linked to fatigue.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1047965118301359
Gonna give this unit some time. The new G's got a ton of snaps in pre season and in pre season games...saw some flashes and ups/downs on technique in both RB and PP. Brendel seemed the most steady by far. RT is a massive mystery right now and I don't know how the chemistry is with Banks and TW. Overall it doesn't feel like the starting 5 got much time together at all especially in working with Trey as the signal caller and the mobility he brings to the table and how they'll need to block for him instinctually.

Normally I have a really good feel for their RB ability which is what Kyle wants to lean on heavily. Naturally. But there's more film now on how to minimize the OZ...so Kyle plans to go more IZ, power, gap, pulling, etc.

In short, the new RB is as big of an unknown (effectiveness) as the new personnel. And then when we're in 2nd and 3rd and long, we'll all be watching the PP closely to see how it affects Trey and the timing of our offense.

It's going to take a good 6-8 weeks (with health and continuity) before we start to see the OL's ceiling/ability to get an idea what level the OL could be come playoff time.

Be patient.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Gonna give this unit some time. The new G's got a ton of snaps in pre season and in pre season games...saw some flashes and ups/downs on technique in both RB and PP. Brendel seemed the most steady by far. RT is a massive mystery right now and I don't know how the chemistry is with Banks and TW. Overall it doesn't feel like the starting 5 got much time together at all especially in working with Trey as the signal caller and the mobility he brings to the table and how they'll need to block for him instinctually.

Normally I have a really good feel for their RB ability which is what Kyle wants to lean on heavily. Naturally. But there's more film now on how to minimize the OZ...so Kyle plans to go more IZ, power, gap, pulling, etc.

In short, the new RB is as big of an unknown (effectiveness) as the new personnel. And then when we're in 2nd and 3rd and long, we'll all be watching the PP closely to see how it affects Trey and the timing of our offense.

It's going to take a good 6-8 weeks (with health and continuity) before we start to see the OL's ceiling/ability to get an idea what level the OL could be come playoff time.

Be patient.

😮 Very reasonable post, NC. I like it.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Gonna give this unit some time. The new G's got a ton of snaps in pre season and in pre season games...saw some flashes and ups/downs on technique in both RB and PP. Brendel seemed the most steady by far. RT is a massive mystery right now and I don't know how the chemistry is with Banks and TW. Overall it doesn't feel like the starting 5 got much time together at all especially in working with Trey as the signal caller and the mobility he brings to the table and how they'll need to block for him instinctually.

Normally I have a really good feel for their RB ability which is what Kyle wants to lean on heavily. Naturally. But there's more film now on how to minimize the OZ...so Kyle plans to go more IZ, power, gap, pulling, etc.

In short, the new RB is as big of an unknown (effectiveness) as the new personnel. And then when we're in 2nd and 3rd and long, we'll all be watching the PP closely to see how it affects Trey and the timing of our offense.

It's going to take a good 6-8 weeks (with health and continuity) before we start to see the OL's ceiling/ability to get an idea what level the OL could be come playoff time.

Be patient.

😮 Very reasonable post, NC. I like it.

  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 33,368
Originally posted by NCommand:
Gonna give this unit some time. The new G's got a ton of snaps in pre season and in pre season games...saw some flashes and ups/downs on technique in both RB and PP. Brendel seemed the most steady by far. RT is a massive mystery right now and I don't know how the chemistry is with Banks and TW. Overall it doesn't feel like the starting 5 got much time together at all especially in working with Trey as the signal caller and the mobility he brings to the table and how they'll need to block for him instinctually.

Normally I have a really good feel for their RB ability which is what Kyle wants to lean on heavily. Naturally. But there's more film now on how to minimize the OZ...so Kyle plans to go more IZ, power, gap, pulling, etc.

In short, the new RB is as big of an unknown (effectiveness) as the new personnel. And then when we're in 2nd and 3rd and long, we'll all be watching the PP closely to see how it affects Trey and the timing of our offense.

It's going to take a good 6-8 weeks (with health and continuity) before we start to see the OL's ceiling/ability to get an idea what level the OL could be come playoff time.

Be patient.

I think the run blocking will come faster than the pass blocking. All the RB's we have can make lemonade out of lemon blocking. In other words, if the RB is doing his job, he makes it easier for the OLine to block for him. Classic example is Barry Sanders. He got his yards despite terrible OLine play. I think this makes it easier for the OLine in run blocking - and I like Kyle's run blocking system. He puts together the OZ, the IZ, and Gap power - all in one blocking language - that I think makes his offensive run blocking have that extra dimension to it that other gap/power based OLine's simply don't have.

It has automatics - like Kittle and Juice, for example - if the DE goes outside run support, Kittle blocks him, and Juszczyk will take on the LB. If the DE goes in, Juice Takes the DE and Kittle takes the LB. I"m sure that's a principle of Zone blocking applied to the TE play. I think the athleticism for the OLine will help it run block better than last years offensive line. Last year was kind of aging and under talented - Mack was nearing retirement, Compton is average at best, and Brunskill was playing out of position. This year, they don't have experience, but I think they make up for it with superior athleticism.

I think Mcglinchey is out for game 1, just a gut feeling, and I'm hoping Brunskill can take the right tackle position. I think Brunskill at RT is way better than Brunskill at RG. The pass blocking is going to take a lot longer, and I hope our DLine can get the OLine up to speed on all the various pressure packages typical Defenses employ on the protections. How fast the OLine gells in both the run and pass blocking really, I think, rests heavily on the offensive coaches - particularly Foerster. If he does a good job, I'm prepared to elevate him in my opinion. If he doesn't -- lets get to Cregg and Graves next year and let Foerster go to Mike McDaniel's team.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Gonna give this unit some time. The new G's got a ton of snaps in pre season and in pre season games...saw some flashes and ups/downs on technique in both RB and PP. Brendel seemed the most steady by far. RT is a massive mystery right now and I don't know how the chemistry is with Banks and TW. Overall it doesn't feel like the starting 5 got much time together at all especially in working with Trey as the signal caller and the mobility he brings to the table and how they'll need to block for him instinctually.

Normally I have a really good feel for their RB ability which is what Kyle wants to lean on heavily. Naturally. But there's more film now on how to minimize the OZ...so Kyle plans to go more IZ, power, gap, pulling, etc.

In short, the new RB is as big of an unknown (effectiveness) as the new personnel. And then when we're in 2nd and 3rd and long, we'll all be watching the PP closely to see how it affects Trey and the timing of our offense.

It's going to take a good 6-8 weeks (with health and continuity) before we start to see the OL's ceiling/ability to get an idea what level the OL could be come playoff time.

Be patient.

???? Very reasonable post, NC. I like it.

I don't. It's very unsettling
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Gonna give this unit some time. The new G's got a ton of snaps in pre season and in pre season games...saw some flashes and ups/downs on technique in both RB and PP. Brendel seemed the most steady by far. RT is a massive mystery right now and I don't know how the chemistry is with Banks and TW. Overall it doesn't feel like the starting 5 got much time together at all especially in working with Trey as the signal caller and the mobility he brings to the table and how they'll need to block for him instinctually.

Normally I have a really good feel for their RB ability which is what Kyle wants to lean on heavily. Naturally. But there's more film now on how to minimize the OZ...so Kyle plans to go more IZ, power, gap, pulling, etc.

In short, the new RB is as big of an unknown (effectiveness) as the new personnel. And then when we're in 2nd and 3rd and long, we'll all be watching the PP closely to see how it affects Trey and the timing of our offense.

It's going to take a good 6-8 weeks (with health and continuity) before we start to see the OL's ceiling/ability to get an idea what level the OL could be come playoff time.

Be patient.

???? Very reasonable post, NC. I like it.

I don't. It's very unsettling

I was stating his take was reasonable, not the state of the O line.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
I was stating his take was reasonable, not the state of the O line.

Check back here in a week,...lol.
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
I was stating his take was reasonable, not the state of the O line.

Check back here in a week,...lol.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Gonna give this unit some time. The new G's got a ton of snaps in pre season and in pre season games...saw some flashes and ups/downs on technique in both RB and PP. Brendel seemed the most steady by far. RT is a massive mystery right now and I don't know how the chemistry is with Banks and TW. Overall it doesn't feel like the starting 5 got much time together at all especially in working with Trey as the signal caller and the mobility he brings to the table and how they'll need to block for him instinctually.

Normally I have a really good feel for their RB ability which is what Kyle wants to lean on heavily. Naturally. But there's more film now on how to minimize the OZ...so Kyle plans to go more IZ, power, gap, pulling, etc.

In short, the new RB is as big of an unknown (effectiveness) as the new personnel. And then when we're in 2nd and 3rd and long, we'll all be watching the PP closely to see how it affects Trey and the timing of our offense.

It's going to take a good 6-8 weeks (with health and continuity) before we start to see the OL's ceiling/ability to get an idea what level the OL could be come playoff time.

Be patient.

???? Very reasonable post, NC. I like it.

I don't. It's very unsettling

I was stating his take was reasonable, not the state of the O line.

His reasonable take is what I found unsettling 🤣
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Gonna give this unit some time. The new G's got a ton of snaps in pre season and in pre season games...saw some flashes and ups/downs on technique in both RB and PP. Brendel seemed the most steady by far. RT is a massive mystery right now and I don't know how the chemistry is with Banks and TW. Overall it doesn't feel like the starting 5 got much time together at all especially in working with Trey as the signal caller and the mobility he brings to the table and how they'll need to block for him instinctually.

Normally I have a really good feel for their RB ability which is what Kyle wants to lean on heavily. Naturally. But there's more film now on how to minimize the OZ...so Kyle plans to go more IZ, power, gap, pulling, etc.

In short, the new RB is as big of an unknown (effectiveness) as the new personnel. And then when we're in 2nd and 3rd and long, we'll all be watching the PP closely to see how it affects Trey and the timing of our offense.

It's going to take a good 6-8 weeks (with health and continuity) before we start to see the OL's ceiling/ability to get an idea what level the OL could be come playoff time.

Be patient.

???? Very reasonable post, NC. I like it.

I don't. It's very unsettling

I was stating his take was reasonable, not the state of the O line.

His reasonable take is what I found unsettling 🤣

LOL.
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
His reasonable take is what I found unsettling 🤣

Must be icy in hell today.
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