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Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Rams are definitely not #1 anymore.

Josh Allen was pressured quite a bit. Didn't matter. That's what people have meant about a qb that can move.

Both teams were pressured in the pocket. You think the Bills should just give up on the season? Maybe they can trade Allen to address their OLine immediately.

Allen lost 2.5 yards per sack last night. Stafford lost 7.0 yards per sack last night. Those lost yards can be the difference between facing a 3rd & 5 and facing a 3rd and 10+.

Excellent point. You found a real difference between the mobile and immobile QB who steps up that can make a real difference in us continuing our strength on 3rd downs.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Rams are definitely not #1 anymore.

Josh Allen was pressured quite a bit. Didn't matter. That's what people have meant about a qb that can move.

Both teams were pressured in the pocket. You think the Bills should just give up on the season? Maybe they can trade Allen to address their OLine immediately.

Allen lost 2.5 yards per sack last night. Stafford lost 7.0 yards per sack last night. Those lost yards can be the difference between facing a 3rd & 5 and facing a 3rd and 10+.

There were also plays where Josh Allen was pressured and either trucked guys or made something out of nothing. But yes he didn't sit back there all day with little resistance or anything.

And again,...why are we going with "elite" or "average" and avoiding everything else on this topic? I didn't see an elite performance by the Bills OL,...or at least until the 2nd half by the time Allen had snatched their souls away.

Elite QB Specimen and we'll work from there is the Bills' makeup this season.
[ Edited by random49er on Sep 9, 2022 at 4:27 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Rams are definitely not #1 anymore.

Josh Allen was pressured quite a bit. Didn't matter. That's what people have meant about a qb that can move.

Both teams were pressured in the pocket. You think the Bills should just give up on the season? Maybe they can trade Allen to address their OLine immediately.

Allen lost 2.5 yards per sack last night. Stafford lost 7.0 yards per sack last night. Those lost yards can be the difference between facing a 3rd & 5 and facing a 3rd and 10+.

Excellent point. You found a real difference between the mobile and immobile QB who steps up that can make a real difference in us continuing our strength on 3rd downs.

I wouldn't neccessarily say the difference is mobile and immobile QB's. Kyler Murray lost an average of 9.0 yards per sack last season and Russell Wilson's average was high as well. I posted a list of the five best and five worst QB's in that category a few pages back.
[ Edited by YACBros85 on Sep 9, 2022 at 4:31 AM ]
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Five Best YDS Per Sack

Dak Prescott- 4.8
Lamar Jackson- 5.0
Patrick Mahomes- 5.2
Jalen Hurts- 5.8
Sam Darnold- 5.8

Five Worst Yds Per Sack

Kyler Murray- 9.2
Mac Jones- 8.6
Zach Wilson- 8.4
Matt Stafford- 8.1
Jared Goff- 8.0

Bump
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Rams are definitely not #1 anymore.

Josh Allen was pressured quite a bit. Didn't matter. That's what people have meant about a qb that can move.

Both teams were pressured in the pocket. You think the Bills should just give up on the season? Maybe they can trade Allen to address their OLine immediately.

Allen lost 2.5 yards per sack last night. Stafford lost 7.0 yards per sack last night. Those lost yards can be the difference between facing a 3rd & 5 and facing a 3rd and 10+.

There were also plays where Josh Allen was pressured and either trucked guys or made something out of nothing. But yes he didn't sit back there all day with little resistance or anything.

And again,...why are we going with "elite" or "average" and avoiding everything else on this topic? I didn't see an elite performance by the Bills OL,...or at least until the 2nd half by the time Allen had snatched their souls away.

Elite QB Specimen and we'll work from there is the Bills' makeup this season.

I don't see anyone using the word elite in this quote chain but you. I was merely making a point that QB's also play role in pass pro and how some QB's lose less yards on sacks than others. Some QB's are also better at avoiding pressure than others. There are a few folks in this thread (not saying you) that think that pass pro is solely on the shoulders of the O line when it is not.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Rams are definitely not #1 anymore.

Josh Allen was pressured quite a bit. Didn't matter. That's what people have meant about a qb that can move.

Both teams were pressured in the pocket. You think the Bills should just give up on the season? Maybe they can trade Allen to address their OLine immediately.

Allen lost 2.5 yards per sack last night. Stafford lost 7.0 yards per sack last night. Those lost yards can be the difference between facing a 3rd & 5 and facing a 3rd and 10+.

Excellent point. You found a real difference between the mobile and immobile QB who steps up that can make a real difference in us continuing our strength on 3rd downs.

I wouldn't neccessarily say the difference is mobile and immobile QB's. Kyler Murray lost an average of 9.0 yards per sack last season and Russell Wilson's average was high as well. I posted a list of the five best and five worst QB's in that category a few pages back.

True...forgot that one. Even within "mobile" you can have styles that lend to even more lost yards vs. what we're seeing from Allen and Trey where their natural instincts are to move up and out of trouble.

Teams like the Rams DL inside would give Trey the most fits vs. teams who have excellent ER's. My guess.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Five Best YDS Per Sack

Dak Prescott- 4.8
Lamar Jackson- 5.0
Patrick Mahomes- 5.2
Jalen Hurts- 5.8
Sam Darnold- 5.8

Five Worst Yds Per Sack

Kyler Murray- 9.2
Mac Jones- 8.6
Zach Wilson- 8.4
Matt Stafford- 8.1
Jared Goff- 8.0

Bump

Using AY and TTT, you can quickly spot the differences between the mobile and immobile QB's and everything in between. What you're finding here are buckets within those mobile QB's too. That's pretty cool.
[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 9, 2022 at 5:25 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Rams are definitely not #1 anymore.

Josh Allen was pressured quite a bit. Didn't matter. That's what people have meant about a qb that can move.

Both teams were pressured in the pocket. You think the Bills should just give up on the season? Maybe they can trade Allen to address their OLine immediately.

Allen lost 2.5 yards per sack last night. Stafford lost 7.0 yards per sack last night. Those lost yards can be the difference between facing a 3rd & 5 and facing a 3rd and 10+.

Excellent point. You found a real difference between the mobile and immobile QB who steps up that can make a real difference in us continuing our strength on 3rd downs.

I wouldn't neccessarily say the difference is mobile and immobile QB's. Kyler Murray lost an average of 9.0 yards per sack last season and Russell Wilson's average was high as well. I posted a list of the five best and five worst QB's in that category a few pages back.

True...forgot that one. Even within "mobile" you can have styles that lend to even more lost yards vs. what we're seeing from Allen and Trey where their natural instincts are to move up and out of trouble.

Teams like the Rams DL inside would give Trey the most fits vs. teams who have excellent ER's. My guess.

That is something to consider as well as look out for this year for sure.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Rams are definitely not #1 anymore.

Josh Allen was pressured quite a bit. Didn't matter. That's what people have meant about a qb that can move.

Both teams were pressured in the pocket. You think the Bills should just give up on the season? Maybe they can trade Allen to address their OLine immediately.

Allen lost 2.5 yards per sack last night. Stafford lost 7.0 yards per sack last night. Those lost yards can be the difference between facing a 3rd & 5 and facing a 3rd and 10+.

Excellent point. You found a real difference between the mobile and immobile QB who steps up that can make a real difference in us continuing our strength on 3rd downs.

I wouldn't neccessarily say the difference is mobile and immobile QB's. Kyler Murray lost an average of 9.0 yards per sack last season and Russell Wilson's average was high as well. I posted a list of the five best and five worst QB's in that category a few pages back.

True...forgot that one. Even within "mobile" you can have styles that lend to even more lost yards vs. what we're seeing from Allen and Trey where their natural instincts are to move up and out of trouble.

Teams like the Rams DL inside would give Trey the most fits vs. teams who have excellent ER's. My guess.

That is something to consider as well as look out for this year for sure.

For sure. Another thing to test out and watch for.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Brandon Thorn's top OL units this year.

9ers4eva...Chiefs #2 Rams not #1 anymore!

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2022-offensive-line-rankings/

The completely remade in one off-season o line starting 3 rook and a guy that never played LT? Imagine that.

elite OL + elite QB is the only to win it all.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
But here's the thing with Allen and all mobile QB play; they look good when they're able to truck players, etc. The instant they become injured that narrative changes like immediately. I'm all for mobile QBs but the conversation hasn't changed since the Steve Young days. As long as the 49ers won, no one really cared that he was sometimes the rushing leader in games. When he started to take on more of those hits being mobile after the ball was thrown, there were more conversations around getting him protected.

I love Allen and he played awesome, but you won't find one coach in the NFL who prefers his QB to be physical because as you all know availability trumps every stat, look, feel, etc. If Allen gets dinged and can't play next week - which we've seen happen to Lance - this is no longer a conversation about elite QB specimen.

I want Trey to play smart and learn how to maximize this offense. Mobility and toughness don't always pair well. It's a long, long season. I want Trey at least 90% and not like Jimmy playing QB with a f**ked up shoulder and a torn thumb ligament in games that decide the season.

I'll take a double helping of that, please. Hoov posted that Elite QB + elite OL = SB win…to that equation one should add, + good health.

Last yr's SB winning QB got sacked 7 (SEVEN) times last nite plus there were more bruising hits. Interesting article in yesterday's (Thurs) WSJ was how the Rams have been healthiest team since arrival of McVay but credit goes to the head of S & C, who uses ultra modern tech in monitoring their players BEFORE injury occurs. Highly recommend reading this article and wonder if we are even dipping our toe in it.

All that monitoring that athletes have been doing, all neatly computerized, has paid dividends. I hope we have at least looked into it and are planning to use it just as the Rams have. Last nite tho…. They ran into a buzz saw aka Buffalo's Bills. Allen's 83.9 % completion rate….unh…what can one say about that? Sure glad we didn't open up with Buff.

Lastly, the few times when Buff Offense got stymied their D came on and put their foot down. That is kinda like i envision our D to do. Just hope Kyle has our guys a bit more prepped than the Rams were last nite. Ok, a LOT more prepped. Watching Allen, makes we wish Trey had had some more experience. I think we'd be happy if Trey had 65% completion rate. No way we would have beaten the Bills last nite. They were just scary good.

Trey needs several things on Sunday, but the most important would be if the OL protects him. If he ends up having to run for his life…then our OL didn't come thru. As of right now, virtually no one has any idea what OL is going to show up on Sunday. We all have expected our OL to play well….but nobody really knows what the OL is going to do.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Sep 9, 2022 at 8:37 AM ]
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Brandon Thorn's top OL units this year.

9ers4eva...Chiefs #2 Rams not #1 anymore!

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2022-offensive-line-rankings/

The completely remade in one off-season o line starting 3 rook and a guy that never played LT? Imagine that.

elite OL + elite QB is the only to win it all.

Tried, true and tested. That's it. This is the way...

PS: It's really not but it's a B/W world for some.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Rams are definitely not #1 anymore.

Josh Allen was pressured quite a bit. Didn't matter. That's what people have meant about a qb that can move.

Both teams were pressured in the pocket. You think the Bills should just give up on the season? Maybe they can trade Allen to address their OLine immediately.

Allen lost 2.5 yards per sack last night. Stafford lost 7.0 yards per sack last night. Those lost yards can be the difference between facing a 3rd & 5 and facing a 3rd and 10+.

Excellent point. You found a real difference between the mobile and immobile QB who steps up that can make a real difference in us continuing our strength on 3rd downs.

I wouldn't neccessarily say the difference is mobile and immobile QB's. Kyler Murray lost an average of 9.0 yards per sack last season and Russell Wilson's average was high as well. I posted a list of the five best and five worst QB's in that category a few pages back.

True...forgot that one. Even within "mobile" you can have styles that lend to even more lost yards vs. what we're seeing from Allen and Trey where their natural instincts are to move up and out of trouble.

Teams like the Rams DL inside would give Trey the most fits vs. teams who have excellent ER's. My guess.

But here's the thing with Allen and all mobile QB play; they look good when they're able to truck players, etc. The instant they become injured that narrative changes like immediately. I'm all for mobile QBs but the conversation hasn't changed since the Steve Young days. As long as the 49ers won, no one really cared that he was sometimes the rushing leader in games. When he started to take on more of those hits being mobile after the ball was thrown, there were more conversations around getting him protected.

I love Allen and he played awesome, but you won't find one coach in the NFL who prefers his QB to be physical because as you all know availability trumps every stat, look, feel, etc. If Allen gets dinged and can't play next week - which we've seen happen to Lance - this is no longer a conversation about elite QB specimen.

I want Trey to play smart and learn how to maximize this offense. Mobility and toughness don't always pair well. It's a long, long season. I want Trey at least 90% and not like Jimmy playing QB with a f**ked up shoulder and a torn thumb ligament in games that decide the season.

Fair points and concerns. Allen did take some shots and defenders were picking him up or a leg and driving him back. There's a fine balance here for sure esp. during a long season. Maybe Kyle learned a lot about that balance from last year.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Brandon Thorn's top OL units this year.

9ers4eva...Chiefs #2 Rams not #1 anymore!

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2022-offensive-line-rankings/

The completely remade in one off-season o line starting 3 rook and a guy that never played LT? Imagine that.

elite OL + elite QB is the only to win it all.

Tried, true and tested. That's it. This is the way...

PS: It's really not but it's a B/W world for some.

I was taught that O-line is everything. After that, a franchise QB, after that, a franchise pass rusher etc etc.

I don't care how good your QB is, if he has no protection it doesn't matter. If the o line is great the RB has holes to run through and QB has time and lanes to fine the open target. (sadly many QB cant do this even when they are given the time which is why a franchise/competent QB is second) Also that means you are converting first downs, which means the defense is on the sideline resting. O-line is the foundation for sure.

Lets pray to whatever you believe or don't believe in that these youngins' step up and FAST
Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Brandon Thorn's top OL units this year.

9ers4eva...Chiefs #2 Rams not #1 anymore!

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2022-offensive-line-rankings/

The completely remade in one off-season o line starting 3 rook and a guy that never played LT? Imagine that.

elite OL + elite QB is the only to win it all.

Tried, true and tested. That's it. This is the way...

PS: It's really not but it's a B/W world for some.

I was taught that O-line is everything. After that, a franchise QB, after that, a franchise pass rusher etc etc.

I don't care how good your QB is, if he has no protection it doesn't matter. If the o line is great the RB has holes to run through and QB has time and lanes to fine the open target. (sadly many QB cant do this even when they are given the time which is why a franchise/competent QB is second) Also that means you are converting first downs, which means the defense is on the sideline resting. O-line is the foundation for sure.

Lets pray to whatever you believe or don't believe in that these youngins' step up and FAST

I certainly lean this way too. Lynch does with the DL so you'd think he'd get it from the OL importance as well. As much as we love focusing on skill positions, they all crumble if things aren't good in front of them.
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