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Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
It's disingenuous and done intentionally . Gets old
So is your inability to grasp a simple concept.
Still spinning.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
The fact that you think giving up a pressure is somehow worse than missing a wide open receiver speaks volumes.
Every OL gives up pressures in every game. Guess it's ok.
The main difference between all of us in this thread is the majority of us hold our QB to a higher standard then the OL. Doesn't mean we are okay with the OL struggling but there is contenxt and nuance.
You hold the OL to a ridiculous high standard while giving Jimmy a pass on everything.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
What concept? The one where Mahomes PP and RB absolutely sucked in the SB and and almost got him killed and he had to bail them out? Or that Stafford's OL was not great throughout the playoffs and almost got him killed while providing him zero run game in the NFCCG until he bailed them out? Or is it the concept of your exaggerated notion that somehow the TB and LAR OL's pst SB's that were decimated with injuries and retirements are some how even remotely close to the OLs JG had? Or is it the concept that KC had to rebuild an elite OL to be…more elite? Lol this is what I'm talking about with you.
And that's the issue. He is straw manning what we say as if we believe OL doesn't matter. It absolutely does.
But as PFF showed once you get to a level of competence from the OL there isn't a big deviation in performance. Then it's really left up to the QB and the rest of the skill guys. That's what happening right now. Brock is making the OL EVEN BETTER.
To suggest the 9ers O line at any point with JG was at the level of the Chiefs in the SB or the Rams this year is so amazingly disingenuous.
You guys are still making Stafford-excuses? Jimmy's pressure rate through the playoffs was what, 54%? Yet the second ANY other QB gets to that level, whether Mahomes or Brady or your favorite player, Stafford, they fold.
The point is, I wouldn't expect high end big time plays under those circumstances. In fact, that pressure usually forces QB's to start looking down at pressure and getting happy feet and making poor decisions with tunnel vision and pressing.
Like I said a million times, for a classic pocket passer like Jimmy to win a Superbowl, you need elite PP. It was obvious we never came close to that level.
Now? I not only think they've got potential for that, but adding CMC (can't be understated security for a QB/Kyle) and health and Brock who adds Jimmy production with more mobility and a high-low mentality, we just might meet the Superbowl winning formula: elite QB and PP play through the playoffs.
It wasn't even close to 54%. LOL
Originally posted by NCommand:
You're twisted.
I simply recognized Jimmy's skill set no different than other QB's and looked at what was needed for them to win a Superbowl. There was no secret what Jimmy needed. They invested in him but not in everything he needed. I'd say the same for Stafford (Lions to LA) and Brady. Pass protection was critical to their success. No doubt.
Skill sets like Mahomes and Jackson, not as critical. Brock either.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Again, there is no comparison between the 9ers, Rams and Chiefs. IT WASNT THE SAME.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Yet if Jimmy hits the throws that are there (Like the Sanders throw) he wins it anyway. Imagine that.
Originally posted by NCommand:
True. You had elite PP vs. the second worse through the entire playoffs. Now Stafford knows what that feels like.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Nobody is absolving Jimmy (or even Brock - yesterday's 8 misses thread) from misses here. One play here or there is the difference in a tight defensive battle.
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
What concept? The one where Mahomes PP and RB absolutely sucked in the SB and and almost got him killed and he had to bail them out? Or that Stafford's OL was not great throughout the playoffs and almost got him killed while providing him zero run game in the NFCCG until he bailed them out? Or is it the concept of your exaggerated notion that somehow the TB and LAR OL's pst SB's that were decimated with injuries and retirements are some how even remotely close to the OLs JG had? Or is it the concept that KC had to rebuild an elite OL to be…more elite? Lol this is what I'm talking about with you.
And that's the issue. He is straw manning what we say as if we believe OL doesn't matter. It absolutely does.
But as PFF showed once you get to a level of competence from the OL there isn't a big deviation in performance. Then it's really left up to the QB and the rest of the skill guys. That's what happening right now. Brock is making the OL EVEN BETTER.
To suggest the 9ers O line at any point with JG was at the level of the Chiefs in the SB or the Rams this year is so amazingly disingenuous.
You guys are still making Stafford-excuses? Jimmy's pressure rate through the playoffs was what, 54%? Yet the second ANY other QB gets to that level, whether Mahomes or Brady or your favorite player, Stafford, they fold.
The point is, I wouldn't expect high end big time plays under those circumstances. In fact, that pressure usually forces QB's to start looking down at pressure and getting happy feet and making poor decisions with tunnel vision and pressing.
Like I said a million times, for a classic pocket passer like Jimmy to win a Superbowl, you need elite PP. It was obvious we never came close to that level.
Now? I not only think they've got potential for that, but adding CMC (can't be understated security for a QB/Kyle) and health and Brock who adds Jimmy production with more mobility and a high-low mentality, we just might meet the Superbowl winning formula: elite QB and PP play through the playoffs.
It wasn't even close to 54%. LOL
Classic NC 😂
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
True. You had elite PP vs. the second worse through the entire playoffs. Now Stafford knows what that feels like.
This is what we talk about. You spin instead of just admitting you are wrong.
What was the TTT in the playoffs again Yac? Something like 3.4?
"BuT tHE PreSSurE RaTe"
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Nobody is absolving Jimmy (or even Brock - yesterday's 8 misses thread) from misses here. One play here or there is the difference in a tight defensive battle.
So missing a huge gainer has a much bigger impact than a pressure or even a sack. Hence the idea he was the biggest issue. Doesn't absolve anyone else. Never did.
Originally posted by NCommand:
YAC has that stat. It was crazy high. 2nd worst. And those two were significantly higher then the rest of the playoff teams.
The point is still the same. For a classic pocket passer, you need elite PP. We never had that...or health...or an outlet or.... TBF, we never had elite QB play either so we were doomed anyhow.
Formula still holds.
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
lol here we go again with the b******t.
let's look at some tangible PP #s that someone used to love and cram down our throats from the Niner playoff games last year:
vs DAL 0 sacks/4 QB hits
vs GB 4 sacks/7 QB hits
vs LAR 0 sacks/3 QB hits
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by NCommand:
YAC has that stat. It was crazy high. 2nd worst. And those two were significantly higher then the rest of the playoff teams.
The point is still the same. For a classic pocket passer, you need elite PP. We never had that...or health...or an outlet or.... TBF, we never had elite QB play either so we were doomed anyhow.
Formula still holds.
It wasn't close to being as high as you just tried to say. He also provided the TTT that you love so much to show you context. So cut the crap
Looking at the numbers in the post season. Jimmy's numbers with a clean pocket were 47 dropbacks, 66% completion, 2 TD's, 0 int's with 108.7 passer rating and a 2.28 TTT. Jimmy's numbers while under pressure were 33 dropbacks, 44.4% completion, 0 TD's, 3 int's with a 16.8 passer rating and a 3.40 TTT.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
lol here we go again with the b******t.
let's look at some tangible PP #s that someone used to love and cram down our throats from the Niner playoff games last year:
vs DAL 0 sacks/4 QB hits
vs GB 4 sacks/7 QB hits
vs LAR 0 sacks/3 QB hits
Stafford got sacked 7 times and hit 15 times against Buffalo in the opening game ALONE