49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:
Like I said a million times, for a classic pocket passer like Jimmy to win a Superbowl, you need elite PP. It was obvious we never came close to that level.

Now? I not only think they've got potential for that, but adding CMC (can't be understated security for a QB/Kyle) and health and Brock who adds Jimmy production with more mobility and a high-low mentality, we just might meet the Superbowl winning formula: elite QB and PP play through the playoffs.

Or....needed him to complete a couple more passes with wide-open guys?

If it is REQUIRED in order to win a SB(your rhetoric) ....and we never "came close" to that level,...then how did we come so damn close to winning a SB in the 2019 season?



Can someone help me out here?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
The numbers I initially gave were through the entire playoffs. When looking at just the nfc title game, Jimmy was under pressure on 35.5% of his dropbacks and had a TTT of 3.73 seconds on those dropbacks according to PFF.

3.73. What a useless OL.

You need to understand PFF's TTT are high by their definition. 3.73 is probably something to the equivalent of 2.5s on NG. They have some really high numbers that throw people off.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Just curious. Since everyone shares a piece of the blame pie. What percentage of that pie would you distribute to Jimmy in the NFCCG?

I have a silly checklist I use...more to see where we improved that game and for repeating themes that cost us.

Team Weakneses:
Defensive pass interference
Defense can't generate TO's
Defense fails late in games and in quick fashion
Defense instantly gives up a score immediately after going up double digits
3rd down pass defense
Defense piss poor tackling (and technique) at times
Offense missed a big opportunity/play
Offensive TO's lead to points the other way
Offensive TO's take points off the board
Offensive penalties at crucial times usually in the RZ or backed up (false starts, holdings, delays, etc.)
Receiver drops
Boneheaded team penalties at key moments
Kyle is bipolar with play calling
Kyle struggles with clock management at times
Kyle gets too cute or too conservative at times
Slow starts and/or poor second half adjustments
Must run 35+ times to have a chance to win
Unit pass protection collapse in predictable passing situations (includes RB's, FB and TE's)
Too many key injuries at key positions at key times
SpecialED teams

I'd have to go back and watch it again and apply it to these buckets.

Everything is intertwined within these from QB to Kyle to Ryans to ST to health.

Do you mean like a pie chart?

You didn't answer the question. LOL. I think this is where folks on here have a lot of issue with your takes. Maybe I have missed those posts. But I have never seen you critique Jimmy as an individual player. I have seen you mainly critique Kyle, the O line and the defense. You seem to avoid any criticism of Jimmy and now you are avoiding a direct question about him and his individual performance and how much the loss in the NFCCG fell on his shoulders.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
The numbers I initially gave were through the entire playoffs. When looking at just the nfc title game, Jimmy was under pressure on 35.5% of his dropbacks and had a TTT of 3.73 seconds on those dropbacks according to PFF.

3.73. What a useless OL.

You need to understand PFF's TTT are high by their definition. 3.73 is probably something to the equivalent of 2.5s on NG. They have some really high numbers that throw people off.

What NC failed to disclose is that Next Gen stats does not have pressure and non pressure splits for TTT and only have an overall average TTT based on all dropbacks. So for that reason alone Next Gen's TTT will never have numbers that high.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
The numbers I initially gave were through the entire playoffs. When looking at just the nfc title game, Jimmy was under pressure on 35.5% of his dropbacks and had a TTT of 3.73 seconds on those dropbacks according to PFF.

3.73. What a useless OL.

You need to understand PFF's TTT are high by their definition. 3.73 is probably something to the equivalent of 2.5s on NG. They have some really high numbers that throw people off.

What NC failed to disclose is that Next Gen stats does not have pressure and non pressure splits for TTT and only have an overall average TTT based on all dropbacks. So for that reason alone Next Gen's TTT will never have numbers that high.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Like I said a million times, for a classic pocket passer like Jimmy to win a Superbowl, you need elite PP. It was obvious we never came close to that level.

Now? I not only think they've got potential for that, but adding CMC (can't be understated security for a QB/Kyle) and health and Brock who adds Jimmy production with more mobility and a high-low mentality, we just might meet the Superbowl winning formula: elite QB and PP play through the playoffs.

Or....needed him to complete a couple more passes with wide-open guys?

If it is REQUIRED in order to win a SB(your rhetoric) ....and we never "came close" to that level,...then how did we come so damn close to winning a SB in the 2019 season?



Can someone help me out here?

watchout.. NC will spin it so fast

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

our OL ranks have been climbing higher now that Brock is under center. Which proves QBs can transcend OLs

Our OL began rising after the KC game. There has been steady improvement. It turned up while JG was QB and has continued with Purdy. It was a matter of Banks settling in and Brendel gaining experience in his role as well. Burford has continued to struggle but Brunskill has more than made up the difference. The central reason is the building of chemistry within the IOL. The angle has actually been quite steady and has continued upward since BP took over.

there's steady improvement.. then there's great improvement.

Teams are starting to back off the LOS ..can you believe that !

Your anti-XQB filter is so tight you don't appear to be capable of looking at things realistically/factually.

There has been steady improvement but there was no point at which things greatly improved. You keep trying to make this all about Purdy when it isn't.

As to backing off, that is not something new with BP. The Chargers took away the run game and the offense struggled...until KS started to throw the ball. As JG said in his presser, "We started throwing the ball and backed them off the line." Jimmy did that. As hard as it may be for you to admit it, he did it. Purdy has continued what began with Garoppolo, and with greater mobility.

i believe you got some filter.. you just can't admit the jump

and no JG didn't back anyone off the film is all there.. and his injury is there also as just more proof of teams not letting up. Teams still continued to crowd the line against Purdy and somehow our offense started scoring more points and the run game is back against better defenses and better teams

The 49ers offense now is better due to Purdy and not because of Jimmy

In addition to Garoppolo's comment, KS confirmed they had to go more to the passing game to open up the offense.

The entire point of the discussion is that the OL improvement began while JG was still at QB and has continued since then. And...as the OL has improved, so has the overall offensive production. Commensurate with that improvement has been improved QB play. One is a part of the other but neither can do what they do without the other...unless you think Purdy is now the Assistant OL Coach.

maybe Purdy is the OL assistant lol what kind of take is that jeez

During the time and after the KC game you were in hear harping how bad the OL were.. now you flipped the script.. it's all good. If you want believe the OL and offense is playing the same then you just aren't being honest

You certainly have a penchant for twisting words and situations to support your narrative.

I was just about to say, wait until Hoov and random show up. ^

All star cast of twisting narratives.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
What NC failed to disclose is that Next Gen stats does not have pressure and non pressure splits for TTT and only have an overall average TTT based on all dropbacks. So for that reason alone Next Gen's TTT will never have numbers that high.

Correct. It's for the full season but they provide a scale for every QB so you have a reference point to what '2.28s' means. Below, average, above average?

We don't have the 2.28s or 3.73s reference to what PFF means for their overall scale or how that relates to other QB's.

Hence, why I asked you to also list Stafford's for that game...that would at least provide us with a reference point to their operational definitions.

But ya'll are so obsessed with your Jimmy-is-everything narrative, it's pretty moot. Even in a thread that's focusing on one aspect of the game...the OL.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
What NC failed to disclose is that Next Gen stats does not have pressure and non pressure splits for TTT and only have an overall average TTT based on all dropbacks. So for that reason alone Next Gen's TTT will never have numbers that high.

Correct. It's for the full season but they provide a scale for every QB so you have a reference point to what '2.28s' means. Below, average, above average?

We don't have the 2.28s or 3.73s reference to what PFF means for their overall scale or how that relates to other QB's.

Hence, why I asked you to also list Stafford's for that game...that would at least provide us with a reference point to their operational definitions.

But ya'll are so obsessed with your Jimmy-is-everything narrative, it's pretty moot. Even in a thread that's focusing on one aspect of the game...the OL.

We went through this whole TTT thing a few months ago. Don't pretend like you are oblivious to it all and that you don't know any better. The truth is Jimmy was holding onto the ball too long and that is the reason for the high pressure rate in that game. I even went over the TTT and pressure rates of all other playoff QB's. You can try to argue that the coverage caused him to hold that ball too long but the film shows otherwise.

Most folks accept the fact that Kyle made some questionable play calls, the O line didn't have their best game and neither did the defense. You like to bring up that people blame everything on Jimmy but you are the extreme opposite of that. You blame everyone else and their mother and exempt Jimmy from all blame.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I was just about to say, wait until Hoov and random show up. ^

All star cast of twisting narratives.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
watchout.. NC will spin it so fast

Nailed it

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
What NC failed to disclose is that Next Gen stats does not have pressure and non pressure splits for TTT and only have an overall average TTT based on all dropbacks. So for that reason alone Next Gen's TTT will never have numbers that high.

Correct. It's for the full season but they provide a scale for every QB so you have a reference point to what '2.28s' means. Below, average, above average?

We don't have the 2.28s or 3.73s reference to what PFF means for their overall scale or how that relates to other QB's.

Hence, why I asked you to also list Stafford's for that game...that would at least provide us with a reference point to their operational definitions.

But ya'll are so obsessed with your Jimmy-is-everything narrative, it's pretty moot. Even in a thread that's focusing on one aspect of the game...the OL.

We went through this whole TTT thing a few months ago. Don't pretend like you are oblivious to it all and that you don't know any better. The truth is Jimmy was holding onto the ball too long and that is the reason for the high pressure rate in that game. I even went over the TTT and pressure rates of all other playoff QB's. You can try to argue that the coverage caused him to hold that ball too long but the film shows otherwise.

Most folks accept the fact that Kyle made some questionable play calls, the O line didn't have their best game and neither did the defense. You like to bring up that people blame everything on Jimmy but you are the extreme opposite of that. You blame everyone else and their mother and exempt Jimmy from all blame.

Jimmy is and has always been just a part of the reason for our losses. The only thing we're talking about is "...to which degree." It's really not a big deal at all because when this team loses, pick your favorite reason why. There's always a long grocery list.

Is there a reason you won't post Stafford's info from that game?

The only thing your stat is showing is that on schedule, he was great. When he held the ball (whatever the reason), bad things happen. That's nothing new to Jimmy or any QB per PFF. I just showed their own analysis/evaluation of that yesterday for you.

I could care less if you think Jimmy was 99.9% of the reason for the loss (All) or .1%.

The OL and PP was my issue the first 5 years because of the skill set of our QB and what was needed to get #6. In fact, the QB didn't matter to me anymore than now but Jimmy's skill set illuminated it more. I wanted Kittle and Kyle free to make any call they wanted and not be stuck pass protecting.

Now, we have that coupled with a more mobile QB and health and CMC, notice how the traffic is far less in here? That's what happens when you address the issue (or it finally comes together). But that was not the reality the previous 5 years.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
What NC failed to disclose is that Next Gen stats does not have pressure and non pressure splits for TTT and only have an overall average TTT based on all dropbacks. So for that reason alone Next Gen's TTT will never have numbers that high.

Correct. It's for the full season but they provide a scale for every QB so you have a reference point to what '2.28s' means. Below, average, above average?

We don't have the 2.28s or 3.73s reference to what PFF means for their overall scale or how that relates to other QB's.

Hence, why I asked you to also list Stafford's for that game...that would at least provide us with a reference point to their operational definitions.

But ya'll are so obsessed with your Jimmy-is-everything narrative, it's pretty moot. Even in a thread that's focusing on one aspect of the game...the OL.

We went through this whole TTT thing a few months ago. Don't pretend like you are oblivious to it all and that you don't know any better. The truth is Jimmy was holding onto the ball too long and that is the reason for the high pressure rate in that game. I even went over the TTT and pressure rates of all other playoff QB's. You can try to argue that the coverage caused him to hold that ball too long but the film shows otherwise.

Most folks accept the fact that Kyle made some questionable play calls, the O line didn't have their best game and neither did the defense. You like to bring up that people blame everything on Jimmy but you are the extreme opposite of that. You blame everyone else and their mother and exempt Jimmy from all blame.

Jimmy is and has always been just a part of the reason for our losses. The only thing we're talking about is "...to which degree." It's really not a big deal at all because when this team loses, pick your favorite reason why. There's always a long grocery list.

Is there a reason you won't post Stafford's info from that game?

The only thing your stat is showing is that on schedule, he was great. When he held the ball (whatever the reason), bad things happen. That's nothing knew to Jimmy or any QB per PFF. I just showed their own analysis/evaluation of that yesterday for you.

I could care less if you think Jimmy was 99.9% of the reason for the loss (All) or .1%.

The OL and PP was my issue the first 5 years because of the skill set of our QB and what was needed to get #6. In fact, the QB didn't matter to me. I wanted Kittle and Kyle free to make any call they wanted and not be stuck pass protecting.

Now, we have that coupled with a more mobile QB and health and CMC, notice how the traffic is far less in here? That's what happens when you address the issue.

I did post Stafford's pressure rate and TTT. I guess you must have missed it but I have no problem posting it again. Stafford was pressured on 25.0% of his dropbacks and had an average TTT of 2.89 seconds on those dropbacks.

Compared to Jimmy's 35.5% pressure rate and with an average TTT of 3.73 seconds on those dropbacks.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I did post Stafford's pressure rate and TTT. I guess you must have missed it but I have no problem posting it again. Stafford was pressured on 25.0% of his dropbacks and had an average TTT of 2.89 seconds on those dropbacks.

Compared to Jimmy's 35.5% pressure rate and with an average TTT of 3.73 seconds on those dropbacks.

Appreciate that.

Do you have his splits like you did with Jimmy? No pressure vs. pressure?.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Jimmy is and has always been just a part of the reason for our losses. The only thing we're talking about is "...to which degree." It's really not a big deal at all because when this team loses, pick your favorite reason why. There's always a long grocery list.

Is there a reason you won't post Stafford's info from that game?

The only thing your stat is showing is that on schedule, he was great. When he held the ball (whatever the reason), bad things happen. That's nothing new to Jimmy or any QB per PFF. I just showed their own analysis/evaluation of that yesterday for you.

I could care less if you think Jimmy was 99.9% of the reason for the loss (All) or .1%.

The OL and PP was my issue the first 5 years because of the skill set of our QB and what was needed to get #6. In fact, the QB didn't matter to me anymore than now. I wanted Kittle and Kyle free to make any call they wanted and not be stuck pass protecting.

Now, we have that coupled with a more mobile QB and health and CMC, notice how the traffic is far less in here? That's what happens when you address the issue.

First honest thing said in this thread by NC in a long while. The QB doesn't matter to him.

To the rest of us the qb absolutely matters. Doesn't make it an obsession. It's an acknowledgment that he's the most important position on the field.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I was just about to say, wait until Hoov and random show up. ^

All star cast of twisting narratives.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
watchout.. NC will spin it so fast

Nailed it

Haha. Now, can you pull your underwear out with your pants on too?