49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I did post Stafford's pressure rate and TTT. I guess you must have missed it but I have no problem posting it again. Stafford was pressured on 25.0% of his dropbacks and had an average TTT of 2.89 seconds on those dropbacks.

Compared to Jimmy's 35.5% pressure rate and with an average TTT of 3.73 seconds on those dropbacks.

Appreciate that.

Do you have his splits like you did with Jimmy? No pressure vs. pressure?.

Stay on topic, How does stafford TTT help your claim that it was the 49ers OLs fault?

i also find it funny that it's incumbent on YAC to prove whether 3.73 seconds to throw is good or not.

The ball was being held too long. Film can be broken down to see why all day but that doesn't change that fact. So to use pressure rate to put blame on the OL without that context is completely disingenuous. The OL did their job on the plays he was pressured. Bottom line.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
First honest thing said in this thread by NC in a long while. The QB doesn't matter to him.

To the rest of us the qb absolutely matters. Doesn't make it an obsession. It's an acknowledgment that he's the most important position on the field.

It doesn't matter because the goal should always be to garner an elite unit. I said the same for Hoyer, BeatHard, Mullens, Jimmy and esp. Trey this last off season. And you're seeing why it's so important for Brock and this TEAM now. The goal is to win the Superbowl. This is a critical element to that winnings formula. We see what happens to elite QB's when they don't have this element. So we know. We know what consistent pressure does to our own...to theirs. We've invested heavily in the latter.

Rhe QB playing at an elite level through the playoffs is another huge part of that formula.

Jimmy was never elite overall. He could play at elite efficiencies for long stretches but then struggle without ideal circumstances. It was always a good move to try to upgrade...same concept with the OL...secondary.

Originally posted by NCommand:
It doesn't matter because the goal should always be to garner an elite unit. I said the same for Hoyer, BeatHard, Mullens, Jimmy and esp. Trey this last off season. And you're seeing why it's so important for Brock and this TEAM now. The goal is to win the Superbowl. This is a critical element to that winjing formula. We see what happens to elite QB's when they don't have this element.

As is the QB playing at an elite level through the playoffs.

Jimmy was never elite overall. He could play at elite efficiencies for long stretches but then struggle without ideal circumstances. It was always a good move to try to upgrade...same concept with the OL...secondary.

If the Rams were forced to pass block for an average of 3.73 seconds they wouldn't be an elite unit either. Neither would Tampa, Neither would KC. Neither would Philly.

Only elite games I can think of in Jimmys career are Saints Cards in 2019 and this years Cards game. That isn't a stretch. Jimmy can play solid football for stretches sure. Not elite.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I did post Stafford's pressure rate and TTT. I guess you must have missed it but I have no problem posting it again. Stafford was pressured on 25.0% of his dropbacks and had an average TTT of 2.89 seconds on those dropbacks.

Compared to Jimmy's 35.5% pressure rate and with an average TTT of 3.73 seconds on those dropbacks.

Appreciate that.

Do you have his splits like you did with Jimmy? No pressure vs. pressure?.

Stay on topic, How does stafford TTT help your claim that it was the 49ers OLs fault?

Stafford was getting that ball out quick in the 2nd half. They were dinking and dunking and running screens on our defense. Our pass rush didn't have much of a chance and we already knew our secondary was suspect all last season but still only gave up 20 points to an offense that was averaging 30+. Our O line gave up 0 sacks with a one legged Trent Williams at LT and Tom Compton at RT and Jimmy still had plenty of time and opportunity to put the game away before the last 2 drives when things finally fell apart.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
i also find it funny that it's incumbent on YAC to prove whether 3.73 seconds to throw is good or not.

The ball was being held too long. Film can be broken down to see why all day but that doesn't change that fact. So to use pressure rate to put blame on the OL without that context is completely disingenuous. The OL did their job on the plays he was pressured. Bottom line.

This is your issue. You are assuming holding the ball longer is 100% a QB issue. That's disingenuous. There could be a variety of issues for that. Holding protection longer actually is a negative thing according to PFF past a QB's first read.

Also, funny you ignore this: 35.5% > 25%. THAT is far more significant overall than the splits. The more pressure, the higher odds of negative plays. The more duress, the higher the odds of negative plays.

The pass protection overall was an issue all through the playoffs and this game was no different.

And to me, the PP was just a part of the overall reason for the loss. Just like Jimmy, Tartt, the defense, Kyle getting outschemed (1.5 gap), ST blunders at the end, secondary, 10 point lead curse, health, poor S play, their bestcplay makers making plays while ours not so much etc.

Pick your preference.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Stafford was getting that ball out quick in the 2nd half. They were dinking and dunking and running screens on our defense. Our pass rush didn't have much of a chance and we already knew our secondary was suspect all last season but still only gave up 20 points to an offense that was averaging 30+. Our O line gave up 0 sacks with a one legged Trent Williams at LT and Tom Compton at RT and Jimmy still had plenty of time and opportunity to put the game away before the last 2 drives when things finally fell apart.

Right, Ryan played off and they dinked and dunked to a Championship. Uncontested. First read. No pressure. And I bet his TTT was around 2.28s in doing so.

That was not the case on the other side. They stuffed our run game and flooded the first reads while bringing a 35% pressure rate.

Was there still a chance to win? Absolutely. But Jimmy isn't the transcendent type. He played safe.

Like Brock last game, he chose to take the shorter safer underneath routes despite the deeper routes wide open. In a tight game, this is common.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
i also find it funny that it's incumbent on YAC to prove whether 3.73 seconds to throw is good or not.

The ball was being held too long. Film can be broken down to see why all day but that doesn't change that fact. So to use pressure rate to put blame on the OL without that context is completely disingenuous. The OL did their job on the plays he was pressured. Bottom line.

This is your issue. You are assuming holding the ball longer is 100% a QB issue. That's disingenuous. There could be a variety of issues for that. Holding protection longer actually is a negative thing according to PFF past a QB's first read.

Also, funny you ignore this: 35.5% > 25%. THAT is far more significant overall than the splits. The more pressure, the higher odds of negative plays. The more duress, the higher the odds of negative plays.

The pass protection overall was an issue all through the playoffs and this game was no different.

And to me, the PP was just a part of the overall reason for the loss. Just like Jimmy, Tartt, the defense, Kyle getting outschemed (1.5 gap), ST blunders at the end, secondary, 10 point lead curse, health, etc.

Pick your preference.

There are only 2 reasons for a QB to hold the ball too long. Either the QB is not seeing the field well and is indecisive or the coverage was blanketing the receivers.

If both Stafford and Garoppolo both had a pressure TTT of 2.89 seconds than your argument for pressure rate being higher for Jimmy would hold more weight. But Jimmy was holding the ball almost a full second longer than Stafford before pressure got to him.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
i also find it funny that it's incumbent on YAC to prove whether 3.73 seconds to throw is good or not.

The ball was being held too long. Film can be broken down to see why all day but that doesn't change that fact. So to use pressure rate to put blame on the OL without that context is completely disingenuous. The OL did their job on the plays he was pressured. Bottom line.

This is your issue. You are assuming holding the ball longer is 100% a QB issue. That's disingenuous. There could be a variety of issues for that. Holding protection longer actually is a negative thing according to PFF past a QB's first read.

Also, funny you ignore this: 35.5% > 25%. THAT is far more significant overall than the splits. The more pressure, the higher odds of negative plays. The more duress, the higher the odds of negative plays.

The pass protection overall was an issue all through the playoffs and this game was no different.

And to me, the PP was just a part of the overall reason for the loss. Just like Jimmy, Tartt, the defense, Kyle getting outschemed (1.5 gap), ST blunders at the end, secondary, 10 point lead curse, health, etc.

Pick your preference.

There are only 2 reasons for a QB to hold the ball too long. Either the QB is not seeing the field well and is indecisive or the coverage was blanketing the receivers.

If both Stafford and Garoppolo both had a pressure TTT of 2.89 seconds than your argument for pressure rate being higher for Jimmy would hold more weight. But Jimmy was holding the ball almost a full second longer than Stafford before pressure got to him.

Show me how long Stafford held the ball without pressure? The production splits.

As to the second sentence, IMHO, it was absolutely a combination of both.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
i also find it funny that it's incumbent on YAC to prove whether 3.73 seconds to throw is good or not.

The ball was being held too long. Film can be broken down to see why all day but that doesn't change that fact. So to use pressure rate to put blame on the OL without that context is completely disingenuous. The OL did their job on the plays he was pressured. Bottom line.

This is your issue. You are assuming holding the ball longer is 100% a QB issue. That's disingenuous. There could be a variety of issues for that. Holding protection longer actually is a negative thing according to PFF past a QB's first read.

Also, funny you ignore this: 35.5% > 25%. THAT is far more significant overall than the splits. The more pressure, the higher odds of negative plays. The more duress, the higher the odds of negative plays.

The pass protection overall was an issue all through the playoffs and this game was no different.

And to me, the PP was just a part of the overall reason for the loss. Just like Jimmy, Tartt, the defense, Kyle getting outschemed (1.5 gap), ST blunders at the end, secondary, 10 point lead curse, health, etc.

Pick your preference.

There are only 2 reasons for a QB to hold the ball too long. Either the QB is not seeing the field well and is indecisive or the coverage was blanketing the receivers.

If both Stafford and Garoppolo both had a pressure TTT of 2.89 seconds than your argument for pressure rate being higher for Jimmy would hold more weight. But Jimmy was holding the ball almost a full second longer than Stafford before pressure got to him.

Show me how long Stafford held the ball without pressure? The splits.

As to the first sentence, IMHO, it was absolutely a combination of both.

Without pressure is pointless since if the first read was open, the ball would be coming out well before pass pro ever had a chance to break down. But if you must know. Stafford had a TTT of 2.42 on passes with a clean pocket and Jimmy had a 2.21. But we all know Jimmy has one of if not the fastest releases in the NFL.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
i also find it funny that it's incumbent on YAC to prove whether 3.73 seconds to throw is good or not.

The ball was being held too long. Film can be broken down to see why all day but that doesn't change that fact. So to use pressure rate to put blame on the OL without that context is completely disingenuous. The OL did their job on the plays he was pressured. Bottom line.

This is your issue. You are assuming holding the ball longer is 100% a QB issue. That's disingenuous. There could be a variety of issues for that. Holding protection longer actually is a negative thing according to PFF past a QB's first read.

Also, funny you ignore this: 35.5% > 25%. THAT is far more significant overall than the splits. The more pressure, the higher odds of negative plays. The more duress, the higher the odds of negative plays.

The pass protection overall was an issue all through the playoffs and this game was no different.

And to me, the PP was just a part of the overall reason for the loss. Just like Jimmy, Tartt, the defense, Kyle getting outschemed (1.5 gap), ST blunders at the end, secondary, 10 point lead curse, health, etc.

Pick your preference.

There are only 2 reasons for a QB to hold the ball too long. Either the QB is not seeing the field well and is indecisive or the coverage was blanketing the receivers.

If both Stafford and Garoppolo both had a pressure TTT of 2.89 seconds than your argument for pressure rate being higher for Jimmy would hold more weight. But Jimmy was holding the ball almost a full second longer than Stafford before pressure got to him.

Show me how long Stafford held the ball without pressure? The splits.

As to the first sentence, IMHO, it was absolutely a combination of both.

Without pressure is pointless since if the first read was open, the ball would be coming out well before pass pro ever had a chance to break down. But if you must know. Stafford had a TTT of 2.42 on passes with a clean pocket and Jimmy had a 2.21. But we all know Jimmy has one of if not the fastest releases in the NFL.

What this tells me is both QB's were getting the ball out to their first reads as quickly as possible. This makes sense given the pressure ability of both defenses.

In the end, they got home at a much higher rate (35.5%) than we did (25%). Therefore QB pressure was a factor in our loss by 3. Should we move this topic to the DL thread?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
i also find it funny that it's incumbent on YAC to prove whether 3.73 seconds to throw is good or not.

The ball was being held too long. Film can be broken down to see why all day but that doesn't change that fact. So to use pressure rate to put blame on the OL without that context is completely disingenuous. The OL did their job on the plays he was pressured. Bottom line.

This is your issue. You are assuming holding the ball longer is 100% a QB issue. That's disingenuous. There could be a variety of issues for that. Holding protection longer actually is a negative thing according to PFF past a QB's first read.

Also, funny you ignore this: 35.5% > 25%. THAT is far more significant overall than the splits. The more pressure, the higher odds of negative plays. The more duress, the higher the odds of negative plays.

The pass protection overall was an issue all through the playoffs and this game was no different.

And to me, the PP was just a part of the overall reason for the loss. Just like Jimmy, Tartt, the defense, Kyle getting outschemed (1.5 gap), ST blunders at the end, secondary, 10 point lead curse, health, etc.

Pick your preference.

There are only 2 reasons for a QB to hold the ball too long. Either the QB is not seeing the field well and is indecisive or the coverage was blanketing the receivers.

If both Stafford and Garoppolo both had a pressure TTT of 2.89 seconds than your argument for pressure rate being higher for Jimmy would hold more weight. But Jimmy was holding the ball almost a full second longer than Stafford before pressure got to him.

Show me how long Stafford held the ball without pressure? The splits.

As to the first sentence, IMHO, it was absolutely a combination of both.

Without pressure is pointless since if the first read was open, the ball would be coming out well before pass pro ever had a chance to break down. But if you must know. Stafford had a TTT of 2.42 on passes with a clean pocket and Jimmy had a 2.21. But we all know Jimmy has one of if not the fastest releases in the NFL.

What this tells me is both QB's were getting the ball out to their first reads as quickly as possible. This makes sense given the pressure ability of both defenses.

In the end, they got home at a much higher rate (35.5%) than we did (25%). Therefore QB pressure was a factor in our loss by 3. Should we move this topic to the DL thread?

Only a factor because Jimmy was holding the ball for almost a full second longer. Go back and checkout those film tweets NY85 posted back in the off season. You will see that there were a half dozen or more plays where receivers were coming free after Jimmy's dropback, well before pressure got to him, and he wasn't seeing them.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
i also find it funny that it's incumbent on YAC to prove whether 3.73 seconds to throw is good or not.

The ball was being held too long. Film can be broken down to see why all day but that doesn't change that fact. So to use pressure rate to put blame on the OL without that context is completely disingenuous. The OL did their job on the plays he was pressured. Bottom line.

This is your issue. You are assuming holding the ball longer is 100% a QB issue. That's disingenuous. There could be a variety of issues for that. Holding protection longer actually is a negative thing according to PFF past a QB's first read.

Also, funny you ignore this: 35.5% > 25%. THAT is far more significant overall than the splits. The more pressure, the higher odds of negative plays. The more duress, the higher the odds of negative plays.

The pass protection overall was an issue all through the playoffs and this game was no different.

And to me, the PP was just a part of the overall reason for the loss. Just like Jimmy, Tartt, the defense, Kyle getting outschemed (1.5 gap), ST blunders at the end, secondary, 10 point lead curse, health, etc.

Pick your preference.

There are only 2 reasons for a QB to hold the ball too long. Either the QB is not seeing the field well and is indecisive or the coverage was blanketing the receivers.

If both Stafford and Garoppolo both had a pressure TTT of 2.89 seconds than your argument for pressure rate being higher for Jimmy would hold more weight. But Jimmy was holding the ball almost a full second longer than Stafford before pressure got to him.

Show me how long Stafford held the ball without pressure? The splits.

As to the first sentence, IMHO, it was absolutely a combination of both.

Without pressure is pointless since if the first read was open, the ball would be coming out well before pass pro ever had a chance to break down. But if you must know. Stafford had a TTT of 2.42 on passes with a clean pocket and Jimmy had a 2.21. But we all know Jimmy has one of if not the fastest releases in the NFL.

What this tells me is both QB's were getting the ball out to their first reads as quickly as possible. This makes sense given the pressure ability of both defenses.

In the end, they got home at a much higher rate (35.5%) than we did (25%). Therefore QB pressure was a factor in our loss by 3. Should we move this topic to the DL thread?

Only a factor because Jimmy was holding the ball for almost a full second longer. Go back and checkout those film tweets NY85 posted back in the off season. You will see that there were a half dozen or more plays where receivers were coming free after Jimmy's dropback, well before pressure got to him, and he wasn't seeing them.

Jimmy is not an ad lib QB. He's a classic drop back timing QB.

Hence why I petitioned he needed gor more help there if the goal was to win a Superbowl. Every year.

I said the same for Trey this off season as well even though he has the opposite skill set of Jimmy. It's JUST as important if not more. Pressure just affects them in different ways.

I simply recognized the type of QB Jimmy was and what he needed to help get us over the hump.

Either way, I'd never expect a QB to win with a 35.5% pressure rate. And I definitely wouldn't expect one to win a Superbowl with the 2nd worst pressure rate of the entire playoffs. It ended how one would expect. Not quite enough.

But that's just me...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
i also find it funny that it's incumbent on YAC to prove whether 3.73 seconds to throw is good or not.

The ball was being held too long. Film can be broken down to see why all day but that doesn't change that fact. So to use pressure rate to put blame on the OL without that context is completely disingenuous. The OL did their job on the plays he was pressured. Bottom line.

This is your issue. You are assuming holding the ball longer is 100% a QB issue. That's disingenuous. There could be a variety of issues for that. Holding protection longer actually is a negative thing according to PFF past a QB's first read.

Also, funny you ignore this: 35.5% > 25%. THAT is far more significant overall than the splits. The more pressure, the higher odds of negative plays. The more duress, the higher the odds of negative plays.

The pass protection overall was an issue all through the playoffs and this game was no different.

And to me, the PP was just a part of the overall reason for the loss. Just like Jimmy, Tartt, the defense, Kyle getting outschemed (1.5 gap), ST blunders at the end, secondary, 10 point lead curse, health, etc.

Pick your preference.

There are only 2 reasons for a QB to hold the ball too long. Either the QB is not seeing the field well and is indecisive or the coverage was blanketing the receivers.

If both Stafford and Garoppolo both had a pressure TTT of 2.89 seconds than your argument for pressure rate being higher for Jimmy would hold more weight. But Jimmy was holding the ball almost a full second longer than Stafford before pressure got to him.

Show me how long Stafford held the ball without pressure? The splits.

As to the first sentence, IMHO, it was absolutely a combination of both.

Without pressure is pointless since if the first read was open, the ball would be coming out well before pass pro ever had a chance to break down. But if you must know. Stafford had a TTT of 2.42 on passes with a clean pocket and Jimmy had a 2.21. But we all know Jimmy has one of if not the fastest releases in the NFL.

What this tells me is both QB's were getting the ball out to their first reads as quickly as possible. This makes sense given the pressure ability of both defenses.

In the end, they got home at a much higher rate (35.5%) than we did (25%). Therefore QB pressure was a factor in our loss by 3. Should we move this topic to the DL thread?

Only a factor because Jimmy was holding the ball for almost a full second longer. Go back and checkout those film tweets NY85 posted back in the off season. You will see that there were a half dozen or more plays where receivers were coming free after Jimmy's dropback, well before pressure got to him, and he wasn't seeing them.

Jimmy is not an ad lib QB. He's a classic drop back timing QB.

Hence why I petitioned he needed gor more help there if the goal was to win a Superbowl. Every year.

I said the same for Trey this off season as well even though he has the opposite skill set of Jimmy. It's JUST as important if not more. Pressure just affects them in different ways.

I simply recognized the type of QB Jimmy was and what he needed to help get us over the hump.

Either way, I'd never expect a QB to win with a 35.5% pressure rate. And I definitely wouldn't expect one to win a Superbowl with the 2nd worst pressure rate of the entire playoffs. It ended how one would expect. Not quite enough.

But that's just me...

What Jimmy needed was to find and throw to the open receiver. 3.73 seconds before pressure gets to the QB is a long time in the NFL, even for an elite O line.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I did post Stafford's pressure rate and TTT. I guess you must have missed it but I have no problem posting it again. Stafford was pressured on 25.0% of his dropbacks and had an average TTT of 2.89 seconds on those dropbacks.

Compared to Jimmy's 35.5% pressure rate and with an average TTT of 3.73 seconds on those dropbacks.

Appreciate that.

Do you have his splits like you did with Jimmy? No pressure vs. pressure?.

Stay on topic, How does stafford TTT help your claim that it was the 49ers OLs fault?

Stafford was getting that ball out quick in the 2nd half. They were dinking and dunking and running screens on our defense. Our pass rush didn't have much of a chance and we already knew our secondary was suspect all last season but still only gave up 20 points to an offense that was averaging 30+. Our O line gave up 0 sacks with a one legged Trent Williams at LT and Tom Compton at RT and Jimmy still had plenty of time and opportunity to put the game away before the last 2 drives when things finally fell apart.

i'm just saying he's trying to spin away from his it's OLs fault..