49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:
Imagine being a 49er fan after watching Bosa's final pressure and still thinking our QB's should transcend pressure. Imagine being a 49er fan and watching your FO spend a gazillion dollars and resources on producing that pressure and in reverse, still expecting our QB to transcend it.

Do we wish he could have made one more throw? Duh! Is it possible? Sure. Is a win under that circumstances likely? Nope.

Imagine thinking how long the qb has to throw the football doesn't matter, it only matters if he was pressured because you can't admit you are wrong on the subject. Then you double down and compare it to O lines that are FAR FAR Worse.

Hell imagine thinking the QB doesn't matter in any context.

Originally posted by thl408:
A shotgun/pistol snap adds 2 steps to the timing. So if a QB takes a shotgun snap, and takes a 3 step dropback, that's a 5 step timing play. Most passing plays we see are 5 step timing. When the QB takes a snap under center, turns his back to execute playaction, this is a 7 step timing play. Most shot plays are 7 step timing to allow longer developing routes to unfold (deep crossers and Post routes).
TTT needs to account for this to be more accurate. There should be buckets for each type of play (TTT on 3 step, TTT on 5 step, TTT on 7 step). If it's all lumped together, it's not as informative.

Sure that's a valid criticism.

But would you rather see TTT vs looking at just the pressure rate as an aggregate? That number by itself has no context.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Here you go…

The team's pressure rate dropped from 62.1% over the first three-quarters of play to 54.5% in the final quarter, and rookie phenom Nick Bosa's pass-rush grade dropped from 91.8 in the first three quarters to 70.5 in the fourth, while his pressure count (eight, including a sack and a hit) and pass-rush win rate (33.3%) through the first three quarters also saw similar drops in the final period of play (four pressures and no sacks and hits, and a pass-rush win rate of 16.7%).

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-how-the-chiefs-got-the-better-of-the-49ers-defense-in-super-bowl-liv

Expect the goalposts to begin moving again.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Gardner Minshew has been pressured on 40.9% of his dropbacks and has an average TTT of 3.31 seconds on those dropbacks over the last 2 games. The eagles didn't just lose Hurts for those 2 games though. They have also been without their starting LT.

Super surprising they've been losing with a less mobile QB. Odd.

PS: Thanks for the entrainment you guys. OMG. Talk about being triggered!

While missing one of their starting tackles. Odd.

By the way. PFF's definition of TTT is from snap to when the QB is moved off his spot so that time has nothing to do with being mobile or not.

Like when Trent Williams was playing on one leg. Or we had Tom Compton starting? LOL

Odd how NOW you guys care about that. #Minshewexcuses

I am the one who brought up Trent Williams and Tom Compton so I do not know where you are going with that statement. Inspite of those two, no one gave up a sack in that game and the pressure was allowed on an average of 3.73 seconds after the snap.

Its quite obvious that Hurts is a better QB than Minshew but the O line was holding up better before the injury to their tackle and the pressure TTT shows it.

I am starting to wonder if you are related to Jimmy Garoppolo? Your defense of him puts my defense of Kyle Shanahan to straight shame.

I just wanted to thank you for proving my exact point. I wouldn't expect any QB to win with a 35.5% pressure rate. It doesn't mean it couldn't happen...just a low probability.

And who cares about Jimmy? I wouldn't expect Brock to transcend that reality either. LOL

The only difference is your disdain for the man and it's obvious. Minshew or Stafford? That's OK. Jimmy under the same circumstances? f**k that guy. That's all on him. LOL

What point did I prove for you exactly? You keep talking about pressure rate and ignoring the context that TTT brings to light about pressure rate. So if a QB is pressured on 50% of his dropbacks and his average TTT on those dropbacks is 6.0+ seconds, it's not on the QB for holding the ball too long but on the O line because they just weren't elite enough for you? Where is the threshold for you exactly?

Just chiming in to say that TTT depends on the timing of the pass play. A 3 step timing play is naturally going to have a shorter TTT than a 7 step timing play. I don't think that context is included in the TTT measurement. Also, if a QB is quickly pressured (bad OL), but the QB is able to evade and run around, that play will have a long TTT which might make us think the OL did a good job on that play.

This is wrong. I already posted this a page or two back. PFF says that TTT is measured from the snap to when the QB is moved off his spot. Also, what is the difference in time between a 3 step drop and a 7 step drop? Also, how many 7 step drops have you seen Kyle Shanahan call during his coaching tenure here?

Ah okay thanks for clarifying how TTT is measured.
What do you mean what is the difference? Is that a rhetorical question? The bolded should explain the difference. Kyle calls 7 step timing plays in every game.

What is the difference in the time it takes the QB to complete a 3 step drop vs a 7 step drop? 0.1 seconds? 0.2 seconds? 0.3 seconds?

I don't think it's possible to take 4 steps in less than half second. Unless you're at a full sprint….

A shotgun/pistol snap adds 2 steps to the timing. So if a QB takes a shotgun snap, and takes a 3 step dropback, that's a 5 step timing play. Most passing plays we see are 5 step timing. When the QB takes a snap under center, turns his back to execute playaction, this is a 7 step timing play. Most shot plays are 7 step timing to allow longer developing routes to unfold (deep crossers and Post routes).
TTT needs to account for this to be more accurate. There should be buckets for each type of play (TTT on 3 step, TTT on 5 step, TTT on 7 step). If it's all lumped together, it's not as informative.

I don't think that is a bad idea for judging QB's vs pass pro. They start the timer at the top of the drop. Maybe someone should contact PFF about that.

Purdy's furthest completed pass from the LOS was around 30 yards. Trey proved in the pre season that you don't need 3 seconds to throw the deep ball. If pass pro isn't holding up why would you keep dialing up 7 step drops?

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Hell imagine thinking the QB doesn't matter in any context.

minshexcuses

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by thl408:
A shotgun/pistol snap adds 2 steps to the timing. So if a QB takes a shotgun snap, and takes a 3 step dropback, that's a 5 step timing play. Most passing plays we see are 5 step timing. When the QB takes a snap under center, turns his back to execute playaction, this is a 7 step timing play. Most shot plays are 7 step timing to allow longer developing routes to unfold (deep crossers and Post routes).
TTT needs to account for this to be more accurate. There should be buckets for each type of play (TTT on 3 step, TTT on 5 step, TTT on 7 step). If it's all lumped together, it's not as informative.

Sure that's a valid criticism.

But would you rather see TTT vs looking at just the pressure rate as a aggregate? That number by itself has no context.

Admitting that I don't completely know how Pressure Rate is measured, I'd say Pressure Rate is more informative. The moment the QB is moved off his spot, that's when he's pressured? Even then, a QB that can't find an open target (or there is no open target) is more likely to hold the ball, is more likely to get pressured.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Gardner Minshew has been pressured on 40.9% of his dropbacks and has an average TTT of 3.31 seconds on those dropbacks over the last 2 games. The eagles didn't just lose Hurts for those 2 games though. They have also been without their starting LT.

Super surprising they've been losing with a less mobile QB. Odd.

PS: Thanks for the entrainment you guys. OMG. Talk about being triggered!

While missing one of their starting tackles. Odd.

By the way. PFF's definition of TTT is from snap to when the QB is moved off his spot so that time has nothing to do with being mobile or not.

Like when Trent Williams was playing on one leg. Or we had Tom Compton starting? LOL

Odd how NOW you guys care about that. #Minshewexcuses

I am the one who brought up Trent Williams and Tom Compton so I do not know where you are going with that statement. Inspite of those two, no one gave up a sack in that game and the pressure was allowed on an average of 3.73 seconds after the snap.

Its quite obvious that Hurts is a better QB than Minshew but the O line was holding up better before the injury to their tackle and the pressure TTT shows it.

I am starting to wonder if you are related to Jimmy Garoppolo? Your defense of him puts my defense of Kyle Shanahan to straight shame.

I just wanted to thank you for proving my exact point. I wouldn't expect any QB to win with a 35.5% pressure rate. It doesn't mean it couldn't happen...just a low probability.

And who cares about Jimmy? I wouldn't expect Brock to transcend that reality either. LOL

The only difference is your disdain for the man and it's obvious. Minshew or Stafford? That's OK. Jimmy under the same circumstances? f**k that guy. That's all on him. LOL

What point did I prove for you exactly? You keep talking about pressure rate and ignoring the context that TTT brings to light about pressure rate. So if a QB is pressured on 50% of his dropbacks and his average TTT on those dropbacks is 6.0+ seconds, it's not on the QB for holding the ball too long but on the O line because they just weren't elite enough for you? Where is the threshold for you exactly?

Just chiming in to say that TTT depends on the timing of the pass play. A 3 step timing play is naturally going to have a shorter TTT than a 7 step timing play. I don't think that context is included in the TTT measurement. Also, if a QB is quickly pressured (bad OL), but the QB is able to evade and run around, that play will have a long TTT which might make us think the OL did a good job on that play.

This is wrong. I already posted this a page or two back. PFF says that TTT is measured from the snap to when the QB is moved off his spot. Also, what is the difference in time between a 3 step drop and a 7 step drop? Also, how many 7 step drops have you seen Kyle Shanahan call during his coaching tenure here?

Ah okay thanks for clarifying how TTT is measured.
What do you mean what is the difference? Is that a rhetorical question? The bolded should explain the difference. Kyle calls 7 step timing plays in every game.

What is the difference in the time it takes the QB to complete a 3 step drop vs a 7 step drop? 0.1 seconds? 0.2 seconds? 0.3 seconds?

I don't think it's possible to take 4 steps in less than half second. Unless you're at a full sprint….

A shotgun/pistol snap adds 2 steps to the timing. So if a QB takes a shotgun snap, and takes a 3 step dropback, that's a 5 step timing play. Most passing plays we see are 5 step timing. When the QB takes a snap under center, turns his back to execute playaction, this is a 7 step timing play. Most shot plays are 7 step timing to allow longer developing routes to unfold (deep crossers and Post routes).
TTT needs to account for this to be more accurate. There should be buckets for each type of play (TTT on 3 step, TTT on 5 step, TTT on 7 step). If it's all lumped together, it's not as informative.

I don't think that is a bad idea for judging QB's vs pass pro. They start the timer at the top of the drop. Maybe someone should contact PFF about that.

Purdy's furthest completed pass from the LOS was around 30 yards. Trey proved in the pre season that you don't need 3 seconds to throw the deep ball. If pass pro isn't holding up why would you keep dialing up 7 step drops?

Okay that would be much better imo if it's measured from the moment the QB completes his dropback, whether it's 3, 5, or 7. From snap is not a good way to measure TTT.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Gardner Minshew has been pressured on 40.9% of his dropbacks and has an average TTT of 3.31 seconds on those dropbacks over the last 2 games. The eagles didn't just lose Hurts for those 2 games though. They have also been without their starting LT.

Super surprising they've been losing with a less mobile QB. Odd.

PS: Thanks for the entrainment you guys. OMG. Talk about being triggered!

While missing one of their starting tackles. Odd.

By the way. PFF's definition of TTT is from snap to when the QB is moved off his spot so that time has nothing to do with being mobile or not.

Like when Trent Williams was playing on one leg. Or we had Tom Compton starting? LOL

Odd how NOW you guys care about that. #Minshewexcuses

I am the one who brought up Trent Williams and Tom Compton so I do not know where you are going with that statement. Inspite of those two, no one gave up a sack in that game and the pressure was allowed on an average of 3.73 seconds after the snap.

Its quite obvious that Hurts is a better QB than Minshew but the O line was holding up better before the injury to their tackle and the pressure TTT shows it.

I am starting to wonder if you are related to Jimmy Garoppolo? Your defense of him puts my defense of Kyle Shanahan to straight shame.

I just wanted to thank you for proving my exact point. I wouldn't expect any QB to win with a 35.5% pressure rate. It doesn't mean it couldn't happen...just a low probability.

And who cares about Jimmy? I wouldn't expect Brock to transcend that reality either. LOL

The only difference is your disdain for the man and it's obvious. Minshew or Stafford? That's OK. Jimmy under the same circumstances? f**k that guy. That's all on him. LOL

What point did I prove for you exactly? You keep talking about pressure rate and ignoring the context that TTT brings to light about pressure rate. So if a QB is pressured on 50% of his dropbacks and his average TTT on those dropbacks is 6.0+ seconds, it's not on the QB for holding the ball too long but on the O line because they just weren't elite enough for you? Where is the threshold for you exactly?

Just chiming in to say that TTT depends on the timing of the pass play. A 3 step timing play is naturally going to have a shorter TTT than a 7 step timing play. I don't think that context is included in the TTT measurement. Also, if a QB is quickly pressured (bad OL), but the QB is able to evade and run around, that play will have a long TTT which might make us think the OL did a good job on that play.

This is wrong. I already posted this a page or two back. PFF says that TTT is measured from the snap to when the QB is moved off his spot. Also, what is the difference in time between a 3 step drop and a 7 step drop? Also, how many 7 step drops have you seen Kyle Shanahan call during his coaching tenure here?

Ah okay thanks for clarifying how TTT is measured.
What do you mean what is the difference? Is that a rhetorical question? The bolded should explain the difference. Kyle calls 7 step timing plays in every game.

What is the difference in the time it takes the QB to complete a 3 step drop vs a 7 step drop? 0.1 seconds? 0.2 seconds? 0.3 seconds?

I don't think it's possible to take 4 steps in less than half second. Unless you're at a full sprint….

So what you are saying is that 7 step drops are what caused a 35.5% pressure rate with a 3.73 seconds time to throw during those pressures?

Not at all. It's absolutely quantifiable if someone wanted to take the time to test while watching film with a stopwatch. I just used my stopwatch and tested and 4 steps varied from 0.6 - 0.9 seconds. Not sure what the reality is for pros, but it ain't anywhere near the tenth of a second you suggested.

Originally posted by thl408:
Admitting that I don't completely know how Pressure Rate is measured, I'd say Pressure Rate is more informative. The moment the QB is moved off his spot, that's when he's pressured? Even then, a QB that can't find an open target (or there is no open target) is more likely to hold the ball, is more likely to get pressured.

So if you have data telling you how long the ball is being held when pressured vs when non pressured measured against a simple well this percentage of the time the QB moved off his spot you'd take the latter? It gives you zero context.

Stafford was pressured at 25% while getting the ball out in an average of 2.89 seconds. Jimmy 35% and 3.73. That to me can easily explain why there is a 10% disparity. To ignore that context and just say well look that 10% difference in pressure rate was the difference is disingenuous.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Gardner Minshew has been pressured on 40.9% of his dropbacks and has an average TTT of 3.31 seconds on those dropbacks over the last 2 games. The eagles didn't just lose Hurts for those 2 games though. They have also been without their starting LT.

Super surprising they've been losing with a less mobile QB. Odd.

PS: Thanks for the entrainment you guys. OMG. Talk about being triggered!

While missing one of their starting tackles. Odd.

By the way. PFF's definition of TTT is from snap to when the QB is moved off his spot so that time has nothing to do with being mobile or not.

Like when Trent Williams was playing on one leg. Or we had Tom Compton starting? LOL

Odd how NOW you guys care about that. #Minshewexcuses

I am the one who brought up Trent Williams and Tom Compton so I do not know where you are going with that statement. Inspite of those two, no one gave up a sack in that game and the pressure was allowed on an average of 3.73 seconds after the snap.

Its quite obvious that Hurts is a better QB than Minshew but the O line was holding up better before the injury to their tackle and the pressure TTT shows it.

I am starting to wonder if you are related to Jimmy Garoppolo? Your defense of him puts my defense of Kyle Shanahan to straight shame.

I just wanted to thank you for proving my exact point. I wouldn't expect any QB to win with a 35.5% pressure rate. It doesn't mean it couldn't happen...just a low probability.

And who cares about Jimmy? I wouldn't expect Brock to transcend that reality either. LOL

The only difference is your disdain for the man and it's obvious. Minshew or Stafford? That's OK. Jimmy under the same circumstances? f**k that guy. That's all on him. LOL

What point did I prove for you exactly? You keep talking about pressure rate and ignoring the context that TTT brings to light about pressure rate. So if a QB is pressured on 50% of his dropbacks and his average TTT on those dropbacks is 6.0+ seconds, it's not on the QB for holding the ball too long but on the O line because they just weren't elite enough for you? Where is the threshold for you exactly?

Just chiming in to say that TTT depends on the timing of the pass play. A 3 step timing play is naturally going to have a shorter TTT than a 7 step timing play. I don't think that context is included in the TTT measurement. Also, if a QB is quickly pressured (bad OL), but the QB is able to evade and run around, that play will have a long TTT which might make us think the OL did a good job on that play.

This is wrong. I already posted this a page or two back. PFF says that TTT is measured from the snap to when the QB is moved off his spot. Also, what is the difference in time between a 3 step drop and a 7 step drop? Also, how many 7 step drops have you seen Kyle Shanahan call during his coaching tenure here?

Ah okay thanks for clarifying how TTT is measured.
What do you mean what is the difference? Is that a rhetorical question? The bolded should explain the difference. Kyle calls 7 step timing plays in every game.

What is the difference in the time it takes the QB to complete a 3 step drop vs a 7 step drop? 0.1 seconds? 0.2 seconds? 0.3 seconds?

Depends what speed the QB is asked to drop back, and I suppose their footspeed. A QB can, and will vary the speed of his dropback. At least the good ones will.

If you cannot come up with an accurately quantifiable number than your argument for a 7 step drop being a major difference in TTT is invalid.

You're losing me because I'm not clear what you mean. OLmen will take different pass set depths depending on the timing of the pass play. 3 step timing, their pass sets aren't as deep because they know the ball is coming out quick. 7 step, they will take a deeper set. This affects TTT, if the timer for TTT starts the moment the ball is snapped.

edit: oh you want me to provide a number (in seconds) of the difference between 3/5/7 step timing? I can't. I just know that 3 step timing plays are quicker to develop than 7 step, so naturally 7 step timing plays will result in higher TTT.

Yes. If we cannot quantify the difference in the time it takes to complete a 3 step vs a 7 step drop than we cannot argue that it has a big enough impact on how long pass pro can efficiently hold up on a given play. I will try to do some research on what the consensus is considered elite when it comes to TTT and pass protection.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by thl408:
A shotgun/pistol snap adds 2 steps to the timing. So if a QB takes a shotgun snap, and takes a 3 step dropback, that's a 5 step timing play. Most passing plays we see are 5 step timing. When the QB takes a snap under center, turns his back to execute playaction, this is a 7 step timing play. Most shot plays are 7 step timing to allow longer developing routes to unfold (deep crossers and Post routes).
TTT needs to account for this to be more accurate. There should be buckets for each type of play (TTT on 3 step, TTT on 5 step, TTT on 7 step). If it's all lumped together, it's not as informative.

Sure that's a valid criticism.

But would you rather see TTT vs looking at just the pressure rate as a aggregate? That number by itself has no context.

Admitting that I don't completely know how Pressure Rate is measured, I'd say Pressure Rate is more informative. The moment the QB is moved off his spot, that's when he's pressured? Even then, a QB that can't find an open target (or there is no open target) is more likely to hold the ball, is more likely to get pressured.

Yes. That is when he is pressured. If the QB cannot find a target than why should that pressure rate be used only to grade pass protection?

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Gardner Minshew has been pressured on 40.9% of his dropbacks and has an average TTT of 3.31 seconds on those dropbacks over the last 2 games. The eagles didn't just lose Hurts for those 2 games though. They have also been without their starting LT.

Super surprising they've been losing with a less mobile QB. Odd.

PS: Thanks for the entrainment you guys. OMG. Talk about being triggered!

While missing one of their starting tackles. Odd.

By the way. PFF's definition of TTT is from snap to when the QB is moved off his spot so that time has nothing to do with being mobile or not.

Like when Trent Williams was playing on one leg. Or we had Tom Compton starting? LOL

Odd how NOW you guys care about that. #Minshewexcuses

I am the one who brought up Trent Williams and Tom Compton so I do not know where you are going with that statement. Inspite of those two, no one gave up a sack in that game and the pressure was allowed on an average of 3.73 seconds after the snap.

Its quite obvious that Hurts is a better QB than Minshew but the O line was holding up better before the injury to their tackle and the pressure TTT shows it.

I am starting to wonder if you are related to Jimmy Garoppolo? Your defense of him puts my defense of Kyle Shanahan to straight shame.

I just wanted to thank you for proving my exact point. I wouldn't expect any QB to win with a 35.5% pressure rate. It doesn't mean it couldn't happen...just a low probability.

And who cares about Jimmy? I wouldn't expect Brock to transcend that reality either. LOL

The only difference is your disdain for the man and it's obvious. Minshew or Stafford? That's OK. Jimmy under the same circumstances? f**k that guy. That's all on him. LOL

What point did I prove for you exactly? You keep talking about pressure rate and ignoring the context that TTT brings to light about pressure rate. So if a QB is pressured on 50% of his dropbacks and his average TTT on those dropbacks is 6.0+ seconds, it's not on the QB for holding the ball too long but on the O line because they just weren't elite enough for you? Where is the threshold for you exactly?

Just chiming in to say that TTT depends on the timing of the pass play. A 3 step timing play is naturally going to have a shorter TTT than a 7 step timing play. I don't think that context is included in the TTT measurement. Also, if a QB is quickly pressured (bad OL), but the QB is able to evade and run around, that play will have a long TTT which might make us think the OL did a good job on that play.

This is wrong. I already posted this a page or two back. PFF says that TTT is measured from the snap to when the QB is moved off his spot. Also, what is the difference in time between a 3 step drop and a 7 step drop? Also, how many 7 step drops have you seen Kyle Shanahan call during his coaching tenure here?

Ah okay thanks for clarifying how TTT is measured.
What do you mean what is the difference? Is that a rhetorical question? The bolded should explain the difference. Kyle calls 7 step timing plays in every game.

What is the difference in the time it takes the QB to complete a 3 step drop vs a 7 step drop? 0.1 seconds? 0.2 seconds? 0.3 seconds?

I don't think it's possible to take 4 steps in less than half second. Unless you're at a full sprint….

A shotgun/pistol snap adds 2 steps to the timing. So if a QB takes a shotgun snap, and takes a 3 step dropback, that's a 5 step timing play. Most passing plays we see are 5 step timing. When the QB takes a snap under center, turns his back to execute playaction, this is a 7 step timing play. Most shot plays are 7 step timing to allow longer developing routes to unfold (deep crossers and Post routes).
TTT needs to account for this to be more accurate. There should be buckets for each type of play (TTT on 3 step, TTT on 5 step, TTT on 7 step). If it's all lumped together, it's not as informative.

I don't think that is a bad idea for judging QB's vs pass pro. They start the timer at the top of the drop. Maybe someone should contact PFF about that.

Purdy's furthest completed pass from the LOS was around 30 yards. Trey proved in the pre season that you don't need 3 seconds to throw the deep ball. If pass pro isn't holding up why would you keep dialing up 7 step drops?

Okay that would be much better imo if it's measured from the moment the QB completes his dropback, whether it's 3, 5, or 7. From snap is not a good way to measure TTT.

NC is friends with the PFF guy. Maybe he would be so kind as to make that suggestion to him.

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Gardner Minshew has been pressured on 40.9% of his dropbacks and has an average TTT of 3.31 seconds on those dropbacks over the last 2 games. The eagles didn't just lose Hurts for those 2 games though. They have also been without their starting LT.

Super surprising they've been losing with a less mobile QB. Odd.

PS: Thanks for the entrainment you guys. OMG. Talk about being triggered!

While missing one of their starting tackles. Odd.

By the way. PFF's definition of TTT is from snap to when the QB is moved off his spot so that time has nothing to do with being mobile or not.

Like when Trent Williams was playing on one leg. Or we had Tom Compton starting? LOL

Odd how NOW you guys care about that. #Minshewexcuses

I am the one who brought up Trent Williams and Tom Compton so I do not know where you are going with that statement. Inspite of those two, no one gave up a sack in that game and the pressure was allowed on an average of 3.73 seconds after the snap.

Its quite obvious that Hurts is a better QB than Minshew but the O line was holding up better before the injury to their tackle and the pressure TTT shows it.

I am starting to wonder if you are related to Jimmy Garoppolo? Your defense of him puts my defense of Kyle Shanahan to straight shame.

I just wanted to thank you for proving my exact point. I wouldn't expect any QB to win with a 35.5% pressure rate. It doesn't mean it couldn't happen...just a low probability.

And who cares about Jimmy? I wouldn't expect Brock to transcend that reality either. LOL

The only difference is your disdain for the man and it's obvious. Minshew or Stafford? That's OK. Jimmy under the same circumstances? f**k that guy. That's all on him. LOL

What point did I prove for you exactly? You keep talking about pressure rate and ignoring the context that TTT brings to light about pressure rate. So if a QB is pressured on 50% of his dropbacks and his average TTT on those dropbacks is 6.0+ seconds, it's not on the QB for holding the ball too long but on the O line because they just weren't elite enough for you? Where is the threshold for you exactly?

Just chiming in to say that TTT depends on the timing of the pass play. A 3 step timing play is naturally going to have a shorter TTT than a 7 step timing play. I don't think that context is included in the TTT measurement. Also, if a QB is quickly pressured (bad OL), but the QB is able to evade and run around, that play will have a long TTT which might make us think the OL did a good job on that play.

This is wrong. I already posted this a page or two back. PFF says that TTT is measured from the snap to when the QB is moved off his spot. Also, what is the difference in time between a 3 step drop and a 7 step drop? Also, how many 7 step drops have you seen Kyle Shanahan call during his coaching tenure here?

Ah okay thanks for clarifying how TTT is measured.
What do you mean what is the difference? Is that a rhetorical question? The bolded should explain the difference. Kyle calls 7 step timing plays in every game.

What is the difference in the time it takes the QB to complete a 3 step drop vs a 7 step drop? 0.1 seconds? 0.2 seconds? 0.3 seconds?

I don't think it's possible to take 4 steps in less than half second. Unless you're at a full sprint….

So what you are saying is that 7 step drops are what caused a 35.5% pressure rate with a 3.73 seconds time to throw during those pressures?

Not at all. It's absolutely quantifiable if someone wanted to take the time to test while watching film with a stopwatch. I just used my stopwatch and tested and 4 steps varied from 0.6 - 0.9 seconds. Not sure what the reality is for pros, but it ain't anywhere near the tenth of a second you suggested.

Obviously it takes more time but up until now we don't know anyone who has measured it. My point is that it is invalid to use such an argument without hard data to back up such a claim. The claim being that there is such a huge difference in time between a 3 step and 7 step drop that it impacted the TTT before pressure.

Don't be like that. I used 0.1 seconds as a starting point and also added 0.2 seconds? 0.3 seconds? To try and get some solid data.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
That's why it's a worthless stat.

Imagine being a 49er fan after watching Bosa's final pressure and still thinking our QB's should transcend pressure. Imagine being a 49er fan and watching your FO spend a gazillion dollars and resources on producing that pressure and in reverse, still expecting our QB to transcend it.

Do we wish he could have made one more throw? Duh! Is it possible? Sure. Is a win under that circumstances likely? Nope.

Who's expecting that?

Just All, Hoov, YAC and 9ers4eva.