49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
More time does not always equate to more open options. This team was NOT good off schedule.

Team sure looks pretty good off schedule now. Wonder what the difference is.

More time does however equate to better pass blocking. Definitionally

They definitely are improving in this area from the eye test.

Agreed. But it could also be unit PP too. If Kittle and Juice stay in like they did a ton in that Superbowl, now you've got better PP (in theory) but need longer for those limited 2 receivers to get open.

Originally posted by NCommand:
More time does not always equate to more open options. This team was NOT good off schedule.

That has more to do with the previous QB. This team IS good off schedule now.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
For those who missed it.

TTT before pressure is measured from snap to when the QB is moved off his spot. Has absolutely nothing to do with a QB being mobile or a pure pocket passer.

What's NextGen? From snap to throw (pressure or not).

Yes. Next Gen doesn't have pressure vs non pressure splits. So there TTT is an average of all dropbacks. PFF definitions change for TTT depending on whether the QB was pressured or not. The PFF TTT for clean pocket is really just a snap to throw time and is meaningless when judging pass protection.

You should really stop doing all the legwork for him. No matter what level of detail and stats you provide, if he doesn't agree with it you will get snarky push back and always asked for more and if he does agree with it you will be praised and he will use you as a point of reference. As evidenced by you being labeled a jimmy hater today 😂

Sticks and stones. LOL

I love debating. It is one of the main reasons I am hooked on this site. I use NC to use me. I have 0 personal issue with him and he makes a great dance partner.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
For those who missed it.

TTT before pressure is measured from snap to when the QB is moved off his spot. Has absolutely nothing to do with a QB being mobile or a pure pocket passer.

What's NextGen? From snap to throw (pressure or not).

Yes. Next Gen doesn't have pressure vs non pressure splits. So there TTT is an average of all dropbacks. PFF definitions change for TTT depending on whether the QB was pressured or not. The PFF TTT for clean pocket is really just a snap to throw time and is meaningless when judging pass protection.

I like both. But I was speaking about NG's year-end results.

You could tell me their cumulative TTT and I could tell you exactly what kind of QB they are. I only used it as it related to team building and the OL in PP when the defense was getting home despite the quick release preventing further damage.

NG's general TTT is useless in a pass pro debate for reasons I have just got done explaining.

This is why I look at overall QB pressure rate. There's a strong correlation to wins/losses.

In fact, we as fans lust over this stat FAR more than sacks because it's far more consistent YOY.

You should see the splits between our QB's pressures in some of these games. It's nuts.

If Bosa doesn't get any sacks, the first thing we go to is, what was his pressure rate?

You get a guy with high teens/low 20's in pressure rates, you've got yourself a stud pass rusher.

If you've got a classic drop back QB, you better protect him if you want to win it all. With a 35.5% for the playoffs, you're done. Style probably wouldn't matter when it's this high.

Brock is the perfect QB for us right now IMHO. We have stellar pass protection and when there is a blown assignment, he's just quick enough to erase it.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
More time does not always equate to more open options. This team was NOT good off schedule.

Team sure looks pretty good off schedule now. Wonder what the difference is.

More time does however equate to better pass blocking. Definitionally

They definitely are improving in this area from the eye test.

Agreed. But it could also be unit PP too. If Kittle and Juice stay in like they did a ton in that Superbowl, now you've got better PP (in theory) but need longer for those limited 2 receivers to get open.

Kittle has pass protected on 6.7% of his pass snaps this season.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
For those who missed it.

TTT before pressure is measured from snap to when the QB is moved off his spot. Has absolutely nothing to do with a QB being mobile or a pure pocket passer.

What's NextGen? From snap to throw (pressure or not).

Yes. Next Gen doesn't have pressure vs non pressure splits. So there TTT is an average of all dropbacks. PFF definitions change for TTT depending on whether the QB was pressured or not. The PFF TTT for clean pocket is really just a snap to throw time and is meaningless when judging pass protection.

You should really stop doing all the legwork for him. No matter what level of detail and stats you provide, if he doesn't agree with it you will get snarky push back and always asked for more and if he does agree with it you will be praised and he will use you as a point of reference. As evidenced by you being labeled a jimmy hater today 😂

Sticks and stones. LOL

I love debating. It is one of the main reasons I am hooked on this site. I use NC to use me. I have 0 personal issue with him and he makes a great dance partner.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
For those who missed it.

TTT before pressure is measured from snap to when the QB is moved off his spot. Has absolutely nothing to do with a QB being mobile or a pure pocket passer.

What's NextGen? From snap to throw (pressure or not).

Yes. Next Gen doesn't have pressure vs non pressure splits. So there TTT is an average of all dropbacks. PFF definitions change for TTT depending on whether the QB was pressured or not. The PFF TTT for clean pocket is really just a snap to throw time and is meaningless when judging pass protection.

You should really stop doing all the legwork for him. No matter what level of detail and stats you provide, if he doesn't agree with it you will get snarky push back and always asked for more and if he does agree with it you will be praised and he will use you as a point of reference. As evidenced by you being labeled a jimmy hater today 😂

Sticks and stones. LOL

I love debating. It is one of the main reasons I am hooked on this site. I use NC to use me. I have 0 personal issue with him and he makes a great dance partner.

LMAO. What?.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
More time does not always equate to more open options. This team was NOT good off schedule.

Team sure looks pretty good off schedule now. Wonder what the difference is.

More time does however equate to better pass blocking. Definitionally

They definitely are improving in this area from the eye test.

Agreed. But it could also be unit PP too. If Kittle and Juice stay in like they did a ton in that Superbowl, now you've got better PP (in theory) but need longer for those limited 2 receivers to get open.

Kittle has pass protected on 6.7% of his pass snaps this season.

This year? No doubt. I've noticed that all season. In fact, IIRC, you also brought this up in a conversation too.

air yards > pressure rate

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is why I look at overall QB pressure rate. There's a strong correlation to wins/losses.

In fact, we as fans lust over this stat FAR more than sacks because it's far more consistent YOY.

You should see the splits between our QB's pressures in some in these games. It's nuts.

If Bosa doesn't get any sacks, the first thing we go to is, what was his pressure rate?

You get a guy with high teens/low 20's in pressure rates, you've got yourself a stud pass rusher.

If you've got a classic drop back QB, you better protect him if you want to win it all. With a 35.5% for the playoffs, you're done.

Brock is the perfect QB for us right now IMHO. We have stellar pass protection and when there is a blown assignment, he's just quick enough to erase it.

But pressure rate is useless when not considering how much time the QB had in the pocket before he was pressured. Is it the O lines inability to pass protect if it doesn't hold up for 6.0+ seconds? Is it the route combinations inability to beat coverage? Is it the QB's inability to read the defense? What is the threshold? How long should an O line pass protect before the blame is placed elsewhere? I have always heard that QB's need to have a 3.0 second internal clock. After 3 seconds they should be looking to get rid of the ball or extend the play.

The elite pocket passers are able to survive in the NFL because of their ability to process at a high rate and throw an accurate pass. Sometimes extend the play by moving around or climbing the pocket.

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is why I look at overall QB pressure rate. There's a strong correlation to wins/losses.

In fact, we as fans lust over this stat FAR more than sacks because it's far more consistent YOY.

You should see the splits between our QB's pressures in some of these games. It's nuts.

If Bosa doesn't get any sacks, the first thing we go to is, what was his pressure rate?

You get a guy with high teens/low 20's in pressure rates, you've got yourself a stud pass rusher.

If you've got a classic drop back QB, you better protect him if you want to win it all. With a 35.5% for the playoffs, you're done. Style probably wouldn't matter when it's this high.

Brock is the perfect QB for us right now IMHO. We have stellar pass protection and when there is a blown assignment, he's just quick enough to erase it.

The bomb cyclone must be in your area. What is with all those different names for rain/storms that people have nowadays anyway?

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
For those who missed it.

TTT before pressure is measured from snap to when the QB is moved off his spot. Has absolutely nothing to do with a QB being mobile or a pure pocket passer.

What's NextGen? From snap to throw (pressure or not).

Yes. Next Gen doesn't have pressure vs non pressure splits. So there TTT is an average of all dropbacks. PFF definitions change for TTT depending on whether the QB was pressured or not. The PFF TTT for clean pocket is really just a snap to throw time and is meaningless when judging pass protection.

I like both. But I was speaking about NG's year-end results.

You could tell me their cumulative TTT and I could tell you exactly what kind of QB they are. I only used it as it related to team building and the OL in PP when the defense was getting home despite the quick release preventing further damage.

NG's general TTT is useless in a pass pro debate for reasons I have just got done explaining.

I know. I was stating when and why I referenced it in past years. His quick release back then helped the PP as much as a mobile QB but he was getting pounded still. That's on the OL to me. An OL that was RB >>>> PP.

You are talking about a single game with splits in production that as he got more time, his production went down. When he was on schedule, he was producing well. Unfortunately, according to PFF, this is a normal trend. So maybe we should look at those handful of snaps where he averaged 3.73s to see why. Kudos to the unit PP to hold though.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
I know he won't rest until we've spent 5 1st round picks at every spot on the offensive line. And at least 3 backups drafted 4th or higher.

Nah, I'm stoked with the PP this year.

Just need a high priced center amiright

Yes. I wanted Ryan Jensen in FA.

Jensen was on all of my offseason mocks too. I was pissed when he went to Tampa.

I wonder if we can trade for Quinn Meinerz and train him to be a center. Williams, Banks, Meinerz, Poe, Burford?

This makes my PP happy

LMAO. I knew that was coming. What's Poe's PFF off season grade? LOL

I think he scored a I don't give a s**t in the preseason

But you love PFF. LOL

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
For those who missed it.

TTT before pressure is measured from snap to when the QB is moved off his spot. Has absolutely nothing to do with a QB being mobile or a pure pocket passer.

What's NextGen? From snap to throw (pressure or not).

Yes. Next Gen doesn't have pressure vs non pressure splits. So there TTT is an average of all dropbacks. PFF definitions change for TTT depending on whether the QB was pressured or not. The PFF TTT for clean pocket is really just a snap to throw time and is meaningless when judging pass protection.

I like both. But I was speaking about NG's year-end results.

You could tell me their cumulative TTT and I could tell you exactly what kind of QB they are. I only used it as it related to team building and the OL in PP when the defense was getting home despite the quick release preventing further damage.

NG's general TTT is useless in a pass pro debate for reasons I have just got done explaining.

I know. I was stating when and why I referenced it in past years. His quick release back then helped the PP as much as a mobile QB but he was getting pounded still. That's on the OL to me. An OL that was RB >>>> PP.

You are talking about a single game with splits in production that as he got more time, his production went down. When he was on schedule, he was producing well. Unfortunately, according to PFF, this is a normal trend. So maybe we should look at those handful of snaps where he averaged 3.73s to see why. Kudos to the unit PP to hold though.

Back when? so I can see some numbers. But pressure TTT takes the mobile vs pure pocket passer argument out of the equation due to the definition of pressure TTT given by PFF.

This is the O line thread and we are talking pass pro. Anything dealing with coverage or a QB not reading the defense quickly enough is for another conversation in another thread. Although a discussion of who is responsible for a free rusher is an interesting one and is tied to this topic of pass pro as well.

The 3.73 seconds should relieve the O line from being the major issue in that game imo. You can blame it on playcalling, the receivers failing to get open or the QB not processing the field fast enough but not the O line.