49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Personally, I think you win super bowls with elite OLine *coaching* Hope Foerster can be our Mckittrick 2.0 in that regard.

Elite OL coaching helps, but it doesn't help the QB in the playoffs when they need to make a play

Well agree to a point, because if you don't have a good to great OLine (and a good OLine coach) you probably won't get into the playoffs in the first place. In the playoffs, a good OLIne can dominate an average to good DLine, the way the rules are written - example: the holding calls etc... Referees are notoriously adverse to calling penalties in the playoffs.

Yup. Chief's OL dominated the same historic DL that wrecked our unit pass protection...and Brock.

the end result might have looked like that, but Jimmy gave it away with INT, Fumbles lost, safety and plays left on the field. Without those blunders it's a different story

Especially in the 4Q.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I am pretty confident Brock would have beat Mahomes.

same. Its the reason he earned the nickname BCB.. jimmy never received one.

He received an STD. I'm fairly confident in that. LOL

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Personally, I think you win super bowls with elite OLine *coaching* Hope Foerster can be our Mckittrick 2.0 in that regard.

Elite OL coaching helps, but it doesn't help the QB in the playoffs when they need to make a play

Well agree to a point, because if you don't have a good to great OLine (and a good OLine coach) you probably won't get into the playoffs in the first place. In the playoffs, a good OLIne can dominate an average to good DLine, the way the rules are written - example: the holding calls etc... Referees are notoriously adverse to calling penalties in the playoffs.

Yup. Chief's OL dominated the same historic DL that wrecked our unit pass protection...and Brock.

I am pretty confident Brock would have beat Mahomes.

Hopefully 2023 proves just that!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Personally, I think you win super bowls with elite OLine *coaching* Hope Foerster can be our Mckittrick 2.0 in that regard.

Elite OL coaching helps, but it doesn't help the QB in the playoffs when they need to make a play

Well agree to a point, because if you don't have a good to great OLine (and a good OLine coach) you probably won't get into the playoffs in the first place. In the playoffs, a good OLIne can dominate an average to good DLine, the way the rules are written - example: the holding calls etc... Referees are notoriously adverse to calling penalties in the playoffs.

Yup. Chief's OL dominated the same historic DL that wrecked our unit pass protection...and Brock.

the end result might have looked like that, but Jimmy gave it away with INT, Fumbles lost, safety and plays left on the field. Without those blunders it's a different story

Especially in the 4Q.

it's not a secret JG gets rattled.. not JJ rattled but he gets gun shy.

Thats why it was so refreshing to see brock with the ice in the veins ..if only we could have drafted him years earlier

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Personally, I think you win super bowls with elite OLine *coaching* Hope Foerster can be our Mckittrick 2.0 in that regard.

Elite OL coaching helps, but it doesn't help the QB in the playoffs when they need to make a play

Well agree to a point, because if you don't have a good to great OLine (and a good OLine coach) you probably won't get into the playoffs in the first place. In the playoffs, a good OLIne can dominate an average to good DLine, the way the rules are written - example: the holding calls etc... Referees are notoriously adverse to calling penalties in the playoffs.

Yup. Chief's OL dominated the same historic DL that wrecked our unit pass protection...and Brock.

the end result might have looked like that, but Jimmy gave it away with INT, Fumbles lost, safety and plays left on the field. Without those blunders it's a different story

Especially in the 4Q.

it's not a secret JG gets rattled.. not JJ rattled but he gets gun shy.

Thats why it was so refreshing to see brock with the ice in the veins ..if only we could have drafted him years earlier

Oh no doubt!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Have we improved this unit over the past 4 off seasons? Have we gotten younger? Cheaper? More talented?

2019 [PFF Rank] - 2023 (PFF)
Joe Staley [5th out of 57] - Trent Williams (93.0)
Laken Tomlinson [41st out of 62] - Aaron Banks (62.7)
Weston Richburg [15th out of 29] - Jake Brendel (64.9)
Mike Person [52nd out of 62] - Spencer Burford (49.6)
Mike McGlinchey [30th out of 57] - Colton McKivitz (N/A)

Let's see what we do today in the draft!

I think the current crop has more athleticism, durability and power than the preceding. I can see improvement on the right tackle side - hopefully Colton can start, and hopefully a powerful right tackle and pass protector and good run blocker can be drafted (Mcglinchy was more of a blocker than a pass blocker pass protector). Adding talented and durable depth will be key to solving the injury problem and also Trent's impending retirement.

It's insanely cheaper too (from a team building perspective). Tomlinson, McGlinchey and Richburg. Those guys cost a ton. We're younger, cheaper and the points you noted as well. If they can find a talent on par or better than MM, they'll be rolling b/c I do see upside and they had a very solid base year. Brendel might be a tad tapped out his talent ceiling but very very steady. Banks showed he CAN play at an elite level...now, needs conditioning and learn to play consistently at that level. Burford, I'm not sold on yet. As you can see by the grades, he struggled some and that was while splitting time with Brunskill. MM had his best year overall but was still MM when it mattered most. To get to that next level, we might need to get higher end play at both RG and RT and start developing a younger, more talented C.

And next year, we 'might' have to draft TW's replacement.

Zakelj and Poe look promising right now with regards to the center position. Brendel may be tapped out physically, but it was his first year as a starting center. So mentally, My hope is he can be better in that dimension - specially if he continues to play with Brock. The left side of the line is solid, and that helps boot actions to the right specially with a right handed QB. I think Burford will develop, I have confidence in Foerster now.

Still available in todays draft as Trent's possible replacement - Jaelyn Duncan, Dawand Jones, Tyler Steen, Matthew Bergeron, Wanya Morris

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Fair enough. You're a trandscending-QB-centric guy and I'm more from the school that believes the OL needs to be at an elite level so that QB can actually be that guy (or give him the best shot at it).

Either way, I don't think we're there yet on either front. But hopeful.

Let's see how it goes tonight!

Any predictions? Educated guesses?

QB being elite is not just due to an elite OL. Carson Wentz showed that with the Colts. As ATT said with 22 Brock playing like he did we win the sbs. I don't buy the reverse.

Biggest thing is get value and don't get laser focused on a particular position that you overtrade. Been their biggest problem in drafts.

Wentz sucks though. I can't remember the Colts having an elite OL either...they made a QB retire early. They did eventually add an elite G to the mix though but elite unit?

You should...there's far more evidence that shows what happens to HOF/Elite QB's when their OL isn't elite...and when it is. Superbowls are won and lost.

That said, I still think you need both (my proven formula ) b/c even the best have off days and need to be carried by the other from time to time.

I can't say that with confidence b/c our OL struggled mightily against Dallas and Philly and Brock was very much affected. Perhaps though he'd have made at least one more play though esp. in the 4Q. But none of our QB's played at an elite level during the playoffs and unit pass protection (and inability to run block) was a big part of why that was.

If we get a better RT, we should have a great case study this year with Brock though.

You were all about Ballard's OL philosophy
would also say having 2 all pros and Braden Smith and Costonzo manning your OTs on the OL as pretty elite

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Fair enough. You're a trandscending-QB-centric guy and I'm more from the school that believes the OL needs to be at an elite level so that QB can actually be that guy (or give him the best shot at it).

Either way, I don't think we're there yet on either front. But hopeful.

Let's see how it goes tonight!

Any predictions? Educated guesses?

QB being elite is not just due to an elite OL. Carson Wentz showed that with the Colts. As ATT said with 22 Brock playing like he did we win the sbs. I don't buy the reverse.

Biggest thing is get value and don't get laser focused on a particular position that you overtrade. Been their biggest problem in drafts.

Wentz sucks though. I can't remember the Colts having an elite OL either...they made a QB retire early. They did eventually add an elite G to the mix though but elite unit?

You should...there's far more evidence that shows what happens to HOF/Elite QB's when their OL isn't elite...and when it is. Superbowls are won and lost.

That said, I still think you need both (my proven formula ) b/c even the best have off days and need to be carried by the other from time to time.

I can't say that with confidence b/c our OL struggled mightily against Dallas and Philly and Brock was very much affected. Perhaps though he'd have made at least one more play though esp. in the 4Q. But none of our QB's played at an elite level during the playoffs and unit pass protection (and inability to run block) was a big part of why that was.

If we get a better RT, we should have a great case study this year with Brock though.

You were all about Ballard's OL philosophy
would also say having 2 all pros and Braden Smith and Costonzo manning your OTs on the OL as pretty elite

I loved that the first thing he did was attack the OL (Nelson) and DL (Buckner). I can't speak to the other stuff he did though.

Yeah, that would have to be one of the top OL's during that span, you'd think.

If we want to win a Superbowl, the question to ask is, can this OL beat out or hold against the following DL's:

Eagles:
LDE Brandon Graham/Nolan Smith
3T Fletcher Cox
1T Jalen Carter
RDE Josh Sweat/Derek Barnett

Dallas:
LDE Demarcus Lawrence
NT Mazi Smith
RDE Osa Odighizuwa
SAM/WILL Micah Parsons, Dorance Armstrong & Damone Clark

This is the standard. This is the way...to the Superbowl.

Originally posted by NCommand:
If we want to win a Superbowl, the question to ask is, can this OL beat out or hold against the following DL's:

Eagles:
LDE Brandon Graham/Nolan Smith
3T Fletcher Cox
1T Jalen Carter
RDE Josh Sweat/Derek Barnett

Dallas:
LDE Demarcus Lawrence
NT Mazi Smith
RDE Osa Odighizuwa
SAM/WILL Micah Parsons, Dorance Armstrong & Damone Clark

This is the standard. This is the way...to the Superbowl.

you are making my eyes water here.. sweet jeebus

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Fair enough. You're a trandscending-QB-centric guy and I'm more from the school that believes the OL needs to be at an elite level so that QB can actually be that guy (or give him the best shot at it).

Either way, I don't think we're there yet on either front. But hopeful.

Let's see how it goes tonight!

Any predictions? Educated guesses?

QB being elite is not just due to an elite OL. Carson Wentz showed that with the Colts. As ATT said with 22 Brock playing like he did we win the sbs. I don't buy the reverse.

Biggest thing is get value and don't get laser focused on a particular position that you overtrade. Been their biggest problem in drafts.

Wentz sucks though. I can't remember the Colts having an elite OL either...they made a QB retire early. They did eventually add an elite G to the mix though but elite unit?

You should...there's far more evidence that shows what happens to HOF/Elite QB's when their OL isn't elite...and when it is. Superbowls are won and lost.

That said, I still think you need both (my proven formula ) b/c even the best have off days and need to be carried by the other from time to time.

I can't say that with confidence b/c our OL struggled mightily against Dallas and Philly and Brock was very much affected. Perhaps though he'd have made at least one more play though esp. in the 4Q. But none of our QB's played at an elite level during the playoffs and unit pass protection (and inability to run block) was a big part of why that was.

If we get a better RT, we should have a great case study this year with Brock though.

You were all about Ballard's OL philosophy
would also say having 2 all pros and Braden Smith and Costonzo manning your OTs on the OL as pretty elite

I loved that the first thing he did was attack the OL (Nelson) and DL (Buckner). I can't speak to the other stuff he did though.

Yeah, that would have to be one of the top OL's during that span, you'd think.

First thing he did was attack OL with Nelson and Smith then brought in a crappy Glowinski as kind of a Compton type signing. Buck got brought in 3 years later . That OL was legit though. They weren't the reason Luck retired

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Fair enough. You're a trandscending-QB-centric guy and I'm more from the school that believes the OL needs to be at an elite level so that QB can actually be that guy (or give him the best shot at it).

Either way, I don't think we're there yet on either front. But hopeful.

Let's see how it goes tonight!

Any predictions? Educated guesses?

QB being elite is not just due to an elite OL. Carson Wentz showed that with the Colts. As ATT said with 22 Brock playing like he did we win the sbs. I don't buy the reverse.

Biggest thing is get value and don't get laser focused on a particular position that you overtrade. Been their biggest problem in drafts.

Wentz sucks though. I can't remember the Colts having an elite OL either...they made a QB retire early. They did eventually add an elite G to the mix though but elite unit?

You should...there's far more evidence that shows what happens to HOF/Elite QB's when their OL isn't elite...and when it is. Superbowls are won and lost.

That said, I still think you need both (my proven formula ) b/c even the best have off days and need to be carried by the other from time to time.

I can't say that with confidence b/c our OL struggled mightily against Dallas and Philly and Brock was very much affected. Perhaps though he'd have made at least one more play though esp. in the 4Q. But none of our QB's played at an elite level during the playoffs and unit pass protection (and inability to run block) was a big part of why that was.

If we get a better RT, we should have a great case study this year with Brock though.

You were all about Ballard's OL philosophy
would also say having 2 all pros and Braden Smith and Costonzo manning your OTs on the OL as pretty elite

I loved that the first thing he did was attack the OL (Nelson) and DL (Buckner). I can't speak to the other stuff he did though.

Yeah, that would have to be one of the top OL's during that span, you'd think.

First thing he did was attack OL with Nelson and Smith then brought in a crappy Glowinski as kind of a Compton type signing. Buck got brought in 3 years later . That OL was legit though. They weren't the reason Luck retired

LOL. Obviously I don't follow the Colts...at all.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:
If we want to win a Superbowl, the question to ask is, can this OL beat out or hold against the following DL's:

Eagles:
LDE Brandon Graham/Nolan Smith
3T Fletcher Cox
1T Jalen Carter
RDE Josh Sweat/Derek Barnett

Dallas:
LDE Demarcus Lawrence
NT Mazi Smith
RDE Osa Odighizuwa
SAM/WILL Micah Parsons, Dorance Armstrong & Damone Clark

This is the standard. This is the way...to the Superbowl.

you are making my eyes water here.. sweet jeebus

Right?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Wentz sucks though. I can't remember the Colts having an elite OL either...they made a QB retire early. They did eventually add an elite G to the mix though but elite unit?

You should...there's far more evidence that shows what happens to HOF/Elite QB's when their OL isn't elite...and when it is. Superbowls are won and lost.

That said, I still think you need both (my proven formula ) b/c even the best have off days and need to be carried by the other from time to time.

I can't say that with confidence b/c our OL struggled mightily against Dallas and Philly and Brock was very much affected. Perhaps though he'd have made at least one more play though esp. in the 4Q. But none of our QB's played at an elite level during the playoffs and unit pass protection (and inability to run block) was a big part of why that was.

If we get a better RT, we should have a great case study this year with Brock though.

SuperBowls can be lost by a bad OL but they are very rarely won by them. Mahomes carried a non elite OL to a title in 19 and his run when his elite line broke down was the difference last year. He also carried them to an AFC title game win when they weren't very elite.

And yes you were talking up the Colts as the standard that whole time. But bad QB play torpedoed them. Couldn't make the throws for Wentz. No different than the 9ers o line and the time they provided Jimmy. Couldn't make the throws for him.

Front office said "**** our oline who cares" tonight.