49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Giedi:
Things I Learned today.
One reason it takes a bit of time for Kyle's OLinemen to get up to speed is because a lot of zone blocking is combo blocking verses in gap/power schemes it's a simple one on one kind of blocking with no *reads* by the offensive linemen. Kyle's offensive linemen actually have to read the defense in the zone blocking system versus just going at his assigned guy, and blocking him. So the offensive linemen in Kyle's system have to *read* the same situation the same way, and I think that's why it takes a while for his Offensive linemen to adjust to it.
Here is Alex Gibbs coaching on the zone run. At the 30 minute mark is where Alex teaches the combo read blocks.

The legend! In addition to that, when listening to Foerster and Brendel, this is his technique and terminology too so it's even more specific hence why it took years for Brendel to be in position to where he felt he was ready to be a starter. Granted, that doesn't stop other teams like Miami, GB, Jets, Rams, etc. from drafting OL that "fit." Kyle just doesn't prioritizes it as high for some reason esp. when it comes to rookies (b/c he believes it takes a long time to develop them and they just aren't going to come in and help right away). Agree or disagree, that's not going to change anytime soon.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Things I Learned today.
One reason it takes a bit of time for Kyle's OLinemen to get up to speed is because a lot of zone blocking is combo blocking verses in gap/power schemes it's a simple one on one kind of blocking with no *reads* by the offensive linemen. Kyle's offensive linemen actually have to read the defense in the zone blocking system versus just going at his assigned guy, and blocking him. So the offensive linemen in Kyle's system have to *read* the same situation the same way, and I think that's why it takes a while for his Offensive linemen to adjust to it.
Here is Alex Gibbs coaching on the zone run. At the 30 minute mark is where Alex teaches the combo read blocks.

The legend! In addition to that, when listening to Foerster and Brendel, this is his technique and terminology too so it's even more specific hence why it took years for Brendel to be in position to where he felt he was ready to be a starter. Granted, that doesn't stop other teams like Miami, GB, Jets, Rams, etc. from drafting OL that "fit." Kyle just doesn't prioritizes it as high for some reason esp. when he comes to rookies (b/c he believes it takes a long time to develop them and they just aren't going to come in and help right away). Agree or disagree, that's not going to change anytime soon.

Alex Gibbs goes into the kinds of players he wants at around (I can't remember where) but my gut says around the 15 minute mark of this clinic. Or generally speaking before the 30 minute mark for sure. Basically he *REALLY* prioritizes speed and athleticism vs size and strength. He values high intelligence. He wants smaller scrappy, fast intelligent OLinemen, the faster the better. He wants an underdog scrappy mentality guy that is hungry to win. It seems he feels that athletes like Trent Williams, that can dominate so easy with their talent, they get mentally lazy. His system can't afford Mentally Lazy players. He wants the entire OLIne to think like one mind.

People are forgetting / sleeping on LeRoy Watson. He was a late cut from the Falcons last year and stuck around all year. 6'5" 310 with >35 inch arms and was a TE in college. I think this guy has the movement skills to challenge for the swing tackle spot and eventually replace McKivitz.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
The only real open competition for a starting job, with everyone healthy, is RT between Moore, Pryor and McKivitz. At RG, outside of the expected rookie blips here and there by Burford, he played extremely well as a rookie and I expect him to make an Aaron Banks-like jump going into year two. Jon Feliciano can backup all three interior OL spots, so we might not even keep a ton of extra OL this year unless they show way too much promise to let go of.

The way I see it:

1ST STRING
LT: Trent Williams
LG: Aaron Banks
C: Jake Brendel
RG: Spencer Burford
RT: Colton McKivitz

2ND STRING
LT: Matt Pryor
LG: Jason Poe
C: Jon Feliciano
RG: Nick Zakelj
RT: Jaylon Moore

3RD STRING
LT: Alfredo Gutierrez
LG: Ilm Manning
C: Keith Ismael
RG: Cory Luciano
RT: Joey Fisher

Originally posted by Giedi:
Alex Gibbs goes into the kinds of players he wants at around (I can't remember where) but my gut says around the 15 minute mark of this clinic. Or generally speaking before the 30 minute mark for sure. Basically he *REALLY* prioritizes speed and athleticism vs size and strength. He values high intelligence. He wants smaller scrappy, fast intelligent OLinemen, the faster the better. He wants an underdog scrappy mentality guy that is hungry to win. It seems he feels that athletes like Trent Williams, that can dominate so easy with their talent, they get mentally lazy. His system can't afford Mentally Lazy players. He wants the entire OLIne to think like one mind.

I would give anything to be in a room listening to Gibbs and Bobb McKittrick talk about OL play. They had similar thoughts and goals.

McKittrick put an undersized, underdog former guard at LT and won a Super Bowl by using his speed and agility instead of relying on strength. It worked then and it still works.

Originally posted by lp1986:
People are forgetting / sleeping on LeRoy Watson. He was a late cut from the Falcons last year and stuck around all year. 6'5" 310 with >35 inch arms and was a TE in college. I think this guy has the movement skills to challenge for the swing tackle spot and eventually replace McKivitz.

Agreed. DL and MM have both noted him numerous times for the reasons you noted. Ya never know!

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Alex Gibbs goes into the kinds of players he wants at around (I can't remember where) but my gut says around the 15 minute mark of this clinic. Or generally speaking before the 30 minute mark for sure. Basically he *REALLY* prioritizes speed and athleticism vs size and strength. He values high intelligence. He wants smaller scrappy, fast intelligent OLinemen, the faster the better. He wants an underdog scrappy mentality guy that is hungry to win. It seems he feels that athletes like Trent Williams, that can dominate so easy with their talent, they get mentally lazy. His system can't afford Mentally Lazy players. He wants the entire OLIne to think like one mind.

I would give anything to be in a room listening to Gibbs and Bobb McKittrick talk about OL play. They had similar thoughts and goals.

McKittrick put an undersized, underdog former guard at LT and won a Super Bowl by using his speed and agility instead of relying on strength. It worked then and it still works.

For sure!

It's also been interesting listening to Foerster. He's so in depth in his interviews. It seems the past couple years he's getting more and more pull and the OL seem to getting a bit bigger and more physical.

Isiah Wynn is still available.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Alex Gibbs goes into the kinds of players he wants at around (I can't remember where) but my gut says around the 15 minute mark of this clinic. Or generally speaking before the 30 minute mark for sure. Basically he *REALLY* prioritizes speed and athleticism vs size and strength. He values high intelligence. He wants smaller scrappy, fast intelligent OLinemen, the faster the better. He wants an underdog scrappy mentality guy that is hungry to win. It seems he feels that athletes like Trent Williams, that can dominate so easy with their talent, they get mentally lazy. His system can't afford Mentally Lazy players. He wants the entire OLIne to think like one mind.

I would give anything to be in a room listening to Gibbs and Bobb McKittrick talk about OL play. They had similar thoughts and goals.

McKittrick put an undersized, underdog former guard at LT and won a Super Bowl by using his speed and agility instead of relying on strength. It worked then and it still works.

AGree 💯%, once 49ers lost McKittrick - the franchise went downhill from there. Offensive line coaches are getting paid more and more. Andy Ried was a former OLine Coach and has won a ton of games recently.

Chris Foerster, Kyle Shanahan's current offensive line coach in San Francisco who was also a part of the Shanahan-Washington think tank, was once believed to be among the highest-paid non-head coaches in the league. Bill Callahan, long believed to be the best and most decorated offensive line coach in the league, often causes a bidding war to ignite whenever his contract—which is often assumed to be a league high both in terms of money and contractual length for a position coach—expires. One industry source said that the average salary for in-demand offensive line coaches has climbed from the mid-to-high six figures well into seven figures and that, in the future, you'll see more revered offensive line coaches awarded coordinator titles or force their way into offensive coordinator consideration under the threat of moving on. This would explain the recent popularization of offensive line coaches having "run game coordinator" attached to their name on the staff masthead.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/08/16/why-its-hard-to-copycat-the-shanahan-style-offense-daily-cover

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Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Isiah Wynn is still available.

So is Cameron Fleming. But most likely, IF the FO used up some of that $11M they just cleared, it'll go towards any number of the veteran ER's still available. My guess.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Isiah Wynn is still available.

So is Cameron Fleming. But most likely, IF the FO used up some of that $11M they just cleared, it'll go towards any number of the veteran ER's still available. My guess.

Thanks.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Isiah Wynn is still available.

So is Cameron Fleming. But most likely, IF the FO used up some of that $11M they just cleared, it'll go towards any number of the veteran ER's still available. My guess.

Thanks.

It's quite a list. ER's are the new #10a12 position.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/edge/available/

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Isiah Wynn is still available.

So is Cameron Fleming. But most likely, IF the FO used up some of that $11M they just cleared, it'll go towards any number of the veteran ER's still available. My guess.

Thanks.

It's quite a list. ER's are the new #10a12 position.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/edge/available/

My gut says a Free Agent OLine pick, but that's with total ignorance on all the Free Agent OLinemen out there.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Isiah Wynn is still available.

So is Cameron Fleming. But most likely, IF the FO used up some of that $11M they just cleared, it'll go towards any number of the veteran ER's still available. My guess.

Thanks.

It's quite a list. ER's are the new #10a12 position.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/edge/available/

My gut says a Free Agent OLine pick, but that's with total ignorance on all the Free Agent OLinemen out there.

You might be right. It sounds like the FO might be interested in Isaiah Wynn. I had them going after Cameron Fleming, personally.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Alex Gibbs goes into the kinds of players he wants at around (I can't remember where) but my gut says around the 15 minute mark of this clinic. Or generally speaking before the 30 minute mark for sure. Basically he *REALLY* prioritizes speed and athleticism vs size and strength. He values high intelligence. He wants smaller scrappy, fast intelligent OLinemen, the faster the better. He wants an underdog scrappy mentality guy that is hungry to win. It seems he feels that athletes like Trent Williams, that can dominate so easy with their talent, they get mentally lazy. His system can't afford Mentally Lazy players. He wants the entire OLIne to think like one mind.

I would give anything to be in a room listening to Gibbs and Bobb McKittrick talk about OL play. They had similar thoughts and goals.

McKittrick put an undersized, underdog former guard at LT and won a Super Bowl by using his speed and agility instead of relying on strength. It worked then and it still works.

AGree 💯%, once 49ers lost McKittrick - the franchise went downhill from there. Offensive line coaches are getting paid more and more. Andy Ried was a former OLine Coach and has won a ton of games recently.

Chris Foerster, Kyle Shanahan's current offensive line coach in San Francisco who was also a part of the Shanahan-Washington think tank, was once believed to be among the highest-paid non-head coaches in the league. Bill Callahan, long believed to be the best and most decorated offensive line coach in the league, often causes a bidding war to ignite whenever his contract—which is often assumed to be a league high both in terms of money and contractual length for a position coach—expires. One industry source said that the average salary for in-demand offensive line coaches has climbed from the mid-to-high six figures well into seven figures and that, in the future, you'll see more revered offensive line coaches awarded coordinator titles or force their way into offensive coordinator consideration under the threat of moving on. This would explain the recent popularization of offensive line coaches having "run game coordinator" attached to their name on the staff masthead.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/08/16/why-its-hard-to-copycat-the-shanahan-style-offense-daily-cover

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That article was a great read. Gives insight not only into the system, but also dearth of coaches, as well as the quality (lack thereof) of O-line play in the league.

Great podcast by Krueger and only comment i have for a GTD $130 K for a UDFA OT, is….is that the OT UDFAs btm of barrel signings just escalated this yr from $90 K last yr to $130 K this yr, and Joey Fisher was the beneficiary of that incr. It also means he is very highly regarded by our F.O to command a GTD salary right out of UDFA.

That was the $$ amount we , or anyone else had to pay for an OT talent they really wanted amongst UDFAs. NFL QB salaries just went vertical…and so did UDFA OTs salaries, by a factor of 1/3 more than last yr….that is for OTs you really think has a shot at making the roster.