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Originally posted by NCommand:
Preach on. And as to the OL we're about to learn a lot about player development and coaching to make this ZBS work. Could be some guys you didn't expect.

Yup. In the past we were better suited for power-blocking, and that was the scheme Gore felt most comfortable in. Now we're adapting to fit the current personnel. I think this is a change that we've been planning for a few years now.

We got young guys like Looney, Martin, Thomas, Kilgore who are best suited for ZBS. Staley is an excellent athlete and perfect for it. Pears played his best ball under Chan Gailey in BUF playing in a ZBS. Hyde and Hunter are dynamic, one-cut runners.

All that combined with Kap's running ability, we could lead the league in rushing by a landslide. Hopefully the new scheme also translates into better pass-blocking as well.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Jun 20, 2015 at 8:33 PM ]
Not to mention that baalke has a stable of RBs ready to go or to go in for certain plays, or to give Hyde a blow. So not only do we have a stable of OLs we have the same at the RB position. And that just makes an injury that much easier to recover from. Some teams don't have 5 starting OLs, and we do...plus at least 4 likely starters elsewhere, who can come in to take over if a man goes down. Now that should make somebody feel good about our OL/running game.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Not to mention that baalke has a stable of RBs ready to go or to go in for certain plays, or to give Hyde a blow. So not only do we have a stable of OLs we have the same at the RB position. And that just makes an injury that much easier to recover from. Some teams don't have 5 starting OLs, and we do...plus at least 4 likely starters elsewhere, who can come in to take over if a man goes down. Now that should make somebody feel good about our OL/running game.

Agree.

Especially after last year's injury-riddled season.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Preach on. And as to the OL we're about to learn a lot about player development and coaching to make this ZBS work. Could be some guys you didn't expect.

Yup. In the past we were better suited for power-blocking, and that was the scheme Gore felt most comfortable in. Now we're adapting to fit the current personnel. I think this is a change that we've been planning for a few years now.

We got young guys like Looney, Martin, Thomas, Kilgore who are best suited for ZBS. Staley is an excellent athlete and perfect for it. Pears played his best ball under Chan Gailey in BUF playing in a ZBS. Hyde and Hunter are dynamic, one-cut runners.

All that combined with Kap's running ability, we could lead the league in rushing by a landslide. Hopefully the new scheme also translates into better pass-blocking as well.

With the Redskins, Ravens last year, Hawks every year, etc. it sure seems like the ZBS is the way to go for a number of reasons, one being that it seems like teams could just plug-n-play along the OL and still find success in it (some lines were devastated like Seattle and were still able to effectively run). I'm very curious to see this OL battle, the scheme, the RB's in it (along with CK), etc. To me, it's the bottom line for our season but I'd take that now with Foerster/Wolford over Solari and the predictable power scheme now any day!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Preach on. And as to the OL we're about to learn a lot about player development and coaching to make this ZBS work. Could be some guys you didn't expect.

Yup. In the past we were better suited for power-blocking, and that was the scheme Gore felt most comfortable in. Now we're adapting to fit the current personnel. I think this is a change that we've been planning for a few years now.

We got young guys like Looney, Martin, Thomas, Kilgore who are best suited for ZBS. Staley is an excellent athlete and perfect for it. Pears played his best ball under Chan Gailey in BUF playing in a ZBS. Hyde and Hunter are dynamic, one-cut runners.

All that combined with Kap's running ability, we could lead the league in rushing by a landslide. Hopefully the new scheme also translates into better pass-blocking as well.

With the Redskins, Ravens last year, Hawks every year, etc. it sure seems like the ZBS is the way to go for a number of reasons, one being that it seems like teams could just plug-n-play along the OL and still find success in it (some lines were devastated like Seattle and were still able to effectively run). I'm very curious to see this OL battle, the scheme, the RB's in it (along with CK), etc. To me, it's the bottom line for our season but I'd take that now with Foerster/Wolford over Solari and the predictable power scheme now any day!

To me, ZBS is intellect over power, so the team doesn't have to find five guys who can overpower the defense. Iupati is a powerful guy, perhaps the most powerful OG in the NFL, but did he open holes regularly againt the best defenses? No. The further you go in the playoffs the better the defenses tend to be. ZBS depends on guys knowing their assignments and being able to move nimbly...much easier to find these guys but it takes longer to have them all in sync. Once they all know the offensive blocking schemes then they can be more versatile. Take a power guy out of the line and you usually have a hole that can't be filled easily.

The only power lines I can think of that were capable of winning big games consistently were the hogs of Washington and Dallas during Allen's time.

My prejudice toward quick thinking and moving guys is deeply ingrained. They tend to adjust better and see ways to defeat the D rather than just powering through. Plus...they tend to be rated lower and are cheaper to maintain. If the niners wanted to keep their OL intact it would eventually be unsustainable with Davis, Iupati and others getting top OL salaries.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jun 22, 2015 at 7:41 AM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Preach on. And as to the OL we're about to learn a lot about player development and coaching to make this ZBS work. Could be some guys you didn't expect.

Yup. In the past we were better suited for power-blocking, and that was the scheme Gore felt most comfortable in. Now we're adapting to fit the current personnel. I think this is a change that we've been planning for a few years now.

We got young guys like Looney, Martin, Thomas, Kilgore who are best suited for ZBS. Staley is an excellent athlete and perfect for it. Pears played his best ball under Chan Gailey in BUF playing in a ZBS. Hyde and Hunter are dynamic, one-cut runners.

All that combined with Kap's running ability, we could lead the league in rushing by a landslide. Hopefully the new scheme also translates into better pass-blocking as well.

With the Redskins, Ravens last year, Hawks every year, etc. it sure seems like the ZBS is the way to go for a number of reasons, one being that it seems like teams could just plug-n-play along the OL and still find success in it (some lines were devastated like Seattle and were still able to effectively run). I'm very curious to see this OL battle, the scheme, the RB's in it (along with CK), etc. To me, it's the bottom line for our season but I'd take that now with Foerster/Wolford over Solari and the predictable power scheme now any day!

To me, ZBS is intellect over power, so the team doesn't have to find five guys who can overpower the defense. Iupati is a powerful guy, perhaps the most powerful OG in the NFL, but did he open holes regularly againt the best defenses? No. The further you go in the playoffs the better the defenses tend to be. ZBS depends on guys knowing their assignments and being able to move nimbly...much easier to find these guys but it takes longer to have them all in sync. Once they all know the offensive blocking schemes then they can be more versatile. Take a power guy out of the line and you usually have a hole that can't be filled easily.

The only power lines I can think of that were capable of winning big games consistently were the hogs of Washington and Dallas during Allen's time.

My prejudice toward quick thinking and moving guys is deeply ingrained. They tend to adjust better and see ways to defeat the D rather than just powering through. Plus...they tend to be rated lower and are cheaper to maintain. If the niners wanted to keep their OL intact it would eventually be unsustainable with Davis, Iupati and others getting top OL salaries.

Finally, someone brought up the salary cap piece. It's like someone mentioned the other day. ILB is the easiest position to plug-n-play in the 3-4 and get terrific production from...we had a ton of money tied up in two all-pro ILB's. That's rare...but also hurts the cap too. We don't want a dominant 2-gap NT like Wilfork b/c you have to pay him top dollars? Instead, we have average-paid 1-gap NT's in Dorsey/Williams but younger, cheaper DE's in Dial, Carradine and AA.

Is OL becoming that as well? Cheaper, younger, smarter, more talented and well-rounded OL that can be coached up by the best in the biz in the Foerster/Wolford tandem? Spend a bit more on coaching and scheme to ensure we're cap friendly, yet very productive and don't have to worry as much about a crippling loss of Iupati, Boone and Davis in a power-scheme-only offense? Kilgore goes down, Looney/Farrell step in.

Great point!
[ Edited by NCommand on Jun 22, 2015 at 8:06 AM ]
Nice comments regarding Thomas on the home page article about possible new starters. This is what many of us have hoped is true!

Thomas is not an Iupati clone. Despite his massive size, he is considered to be very athletic, has quick feet, and uses those attributes to win positioning against defenders rather than simply using brute strength to shove them around. This could be a huge asset to anyone running behind him - like Carlos Hyde. The other key advantage that Thomas has over Iupati is his ability to pass block. Playing some tackle in college gave him the experience needed to learn to move with defenders and keep them from the quarterback. His long arm reach, a trait that has become popular with Baalke selections, will be an additional asset when he attempts to shift defenders' directions and recover if needed.

Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/news/1455-four-49ers-youngsters-could-thrive-new-starting-roles/#o8UdExz9fKCZCdVU.99
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jun 25, 2015 at 11:23 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Finally, someone brought up the salary cap piece. It's like someone mentioned the other day. ILB is the easiest position to plug-n-play in the 3-4 and get terrific production from...we had a ton of money tied up in two all-pro ILB's. That's rare...but also hurts the cap too. We don't want a dominant 2-gap NT like Wilfork b/c you have to pay him top dollars? Instead, we have average-paid 1-gap NT's in Dorsey/Williams but younger, cheaper DE's in Dial, Carradine and AA.

Is OL becoming that as well? Cheaper, younger, smarter, more talented and well-rounded OL that can be coached up by the best in the biz in the Foerster/Wolford tandem? Spend a bit more on coaching and scheme to ensure we're cap friendly, yet very productive and don't have to worry as much about a crippling loss of Iupati, Boone and Davis in a power-scheme-only offense? Kilgore goes down, Looney/Farrell step in.

Great point!

Agree

AND it seems they are being cross trained for multiple OLine positions
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Staley..Martin..Kilgore..Thomas..Boone

Looney backs up C and OG, Pears and Brown back up OT positions.

I don't think that's a bad starting o-line.
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Staley..Martin..Kilgore..Thomas..Boone

Looney backs up C and OG, Pears and Brown back up OT positions.

I don't think that's a bad starting o-line.

Personally, I like that a lot.

IMO, they'd be much faster than last season and Much better at pass protection.

Although the jury is still out as far as Thomas and martin go. I'm very confident they'll succeed.
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Staley..Martin..Kilgore..Thomas..Boone

Looney backs up C and OG, Pears and Brown back up OT positions.

I don't think that's a bad starting o-line.

Personally, I like that a lot.

IMO, they'd be much faster than last season and Much better at pass protection.

Although the jury is still out as far as Thomas and martin go. I'm very confident they'll succeed.

I'd be happy if this was their plan, and perhaps playing Boone at RG during the minicamps was just to acquaint him with the position before the actual TC starts. Right now, he can play any OL position except center. Is Thomas ready? If not they still have some options with Looney and Farrell.

Interesting that they picked up Gottschalk...another guy who can play center and is versatile. Likely just kicking his tires.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Staley..Martin..Kilgore..Thomas..Boone

Looney backs up C and OG, Pears and Brown back up OT positions.

I don't think that's a bad starting o-line.

Personally, I like that a lot.

IMO, they'd be much faster than last season and Much better at pass protection.

Although the jury is still out as far as Thomas and martin go. I'm very confident they'll succeed.

I'd be happy if this was their plan, and perhaps playing Boone at RG during the minicamps was just to acquaint him with the position before the actual TC starts. Right now, he can play any OL position except center. Is Thomas ready? If not they still have some options with Looney and Farrell.

Interesting that they picked up Gottschalk...another guy who can play center and is versatile. Likely just kicking his tires.

Hope you're right on Gottschalk and Kilgore's rehab is working out!
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Staley..Martin..Kilgore..Thomas..Boone

Looney backs up C and OG, Pears and Brown back up OT positions.

I don't think that's a bad starting o-line.

Yeah, although I think Farrell definitely can and probably will beat out Looney.

As for your projected starters I'm guessing it will probably come down to if the team thinks they're better off with Martin at G and Boone at T or Boone at G and Pears at T.
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Staley..Martin..Kilgore..Thomas..Boone

Looney backs up C and OG, Pears and Brown back up OT positions.

I don't think that's a bad starting o-line.

Like the players and almost all the positions. Think you can still run some power with Martin (or Thomas) being the pull-guard as well as being agile and athletic enough to run ZBS's as well.
Absolutely love this mentality shift:

As second-year lineman Marcus Martin told the San Francisco Chronicle this offseason, new head coach Jim Tomsula and Foerster have asked the linemen to lose a little weight and be more fit.

Plenty of Talent Still Remains on 49ers Roster
"Oh man, it's a whole different mentality, a whole different level of fitness," Martin told the Chronicle's Eric Branch.

Martin, expected to compete at both center and guard, is making the effort to increase his stamina and quickness.

"You have a coach (Foerster) that emphasizes being in shape, being able to run and being physical at the same time," Martin said. "And being able to replicate that every single time. You've got to be in shape or you won't have a job."



http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/Changes-Coming-to-49ers-Offensive-Line-309829771.html
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