49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
never heard of tier 1 until today in this thread.. wth is that ? new name for #1 ranked OL like years past ?

It was introduced because PHI was #1 last year and didn't win

oh, moving the goal posts..

how many teams are in these tiers ?

2. Sometimes 3. For instance, only 2 are in the OL tier 1 this year. 3 on defense (including SF). Sometimes just 1.

Last year it was 2 OL: Eagles and Chiefs in tier 1. Chiefs got no lower than 3.

whats this years, Hoov mentioned Det ?

Where are these tiers coming from?

This year to 'start.'

Tier 1:
Eagles and Lions for OL
Cowboys, 9ers and Steelers for DL

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-offensive-line-rankings/
You
https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-defensive-line-rankings/

All will be reevaluated mid season and again going into the playoffs.

do you think it's wise to post pay sites as your source of truth when you don't read the entire articles because you, admittedly, don't ever pay for pay sites?

Do you need to pay to see the free tier 1's listed every time? LOL

Also, follow Brandon. He usually reveals a ton.

The 'pay' portion is used for specific weekly matchups, FF and betting. YAC would benefit from it as he uses a similar formula.

So you also feel Lions are Tier 1 ?

It's hard to argue against their expertise and history.

Did you read their assessment of why they have them in tier 1?

Would that be enough to elevate Goff to playing at a tier 1 level as well? Highly unlikely but he did have a nice second half of the season IIRC.

so would you bet on Det ?

+ Show all quotes
Of course not. You need both. Why is this so hard to understand? LOL

Is it possible Goff gets hot at the right time and plays like a tier 1 QB through the playoffs? Sure...we've seen it before. But it's unlikely too.

Goff is good and has good heart from a good family. He will get better after McKay gave the Tray Lance experience.

NC is right.. you need both a top tier O line and a good QB to help win it all. We forgot though that a top tier D is needed as well.

A complete team usually wins Superbowl. Most average fans ignore how critical a good OLine is, just to get a good average generic offense.

Best pass protectors man the OT positions, and the worst OLineman usually is (but not always) is the right guard.

Absolutely 💯 correct...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
never heard of tier 1 until today in this thread.. wth is that ? new name for #1 ranked OL like years past ?

It was introduced because PHI was #1 last year and didn't win

oh, moving the goal posts..

how many teams are in these tiers ?

2. Sometimes 3. For instance, only 2 are in the OL tier 1 this year. 3 on defense (including SF). Sometimes just 1.

Last year it was 2 OL: Eagles and Chiefs in tier 1. Chiefs got no lower than 3.

whats this years, Hoov mentioned Det ?

Where are these tiers coming from?

This year to 'start.'

Tier 1:
Eagles and Lions for OL
Cowboys, 9ers and Steelers for DL

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-offensive-line-rankings/
You
https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-defensive-line-rankings/

All will be reevaluated mid season and again going into the playoffs.

do you think it's wise to post pay sites as your source of truth when you don't read the entire articles because you, admittedly, don't ever pay for pay sites?

Do you need to pay to see the free tier 1's listed every time? LOL

Also, follow Brandon. He usually reveals a ton.

The 'pay' portion is used for specific weekly matchups, FF and betting. YAC would benefit from it as he uses a similar formula.

So you also feel Lions are Tier 1 ?

It's hard to argue against their expertise and history.

Did you read their assessment of why they have them in tier 1?

Would that be enough to elevate Goff to playing at a tier 1 level as well? Highly unlikely but he did have a nice second half of the season IIRC.

so would you bet on Det ?

+ Show all quotes
Of course not. You need both. Why is this so hard to understand? LOL

Is it possible Goff gets hot at the right time and plays like a tier 1 QB through the playoffs? Sure...we've seen it before. But it's unlikely too.

Goff is good and has good heart from a good family. He will get better after McKay gave the Tray Lance experience.

NC is right.. you need both a top tier O line and a good QB to help win it all. We forgot though that a top tier D is needed as well.

Yup. If you have all 3, you've got dynasty potential.

I remember well.... lol the 80s 90s.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
never heard of tier 1 until today in this thread.. wth is that ? new name for #1 ranked OL like years past ?

It was introduced because PHI was #1 last year and didn't win

oh, moving the goal posts..

how many teams are in these tiers ?

2. Sometimes 3. For instance, only 2 are in the OL tier 1 this year. 3 on defense (including SF). Sometimes just 1.

Last year it was 2 OL: Eagles and Chiefs in tier 1. Chiefs got no lower than 3.

whats this years, Hoov mentioned Det ?

Where are these tiers coming from?

This year to 'start.'

Tier 1:
Eagles and Lions for OL
Cowboys, 9ers and Steelers for DL

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-offensive-line-rankings/
You
https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-defensive-line-rankings/

All will be reevaluated mid season and again going into the playoffs.

do you think it's wise to post pay sites as your source of truth when you don't read the entire articles because you, admittedly, don't ever pay for pay sites?

Do you need to pay to see the free tier 1's listed every time? LOL

Also, follow Brandon. He usually reveals a ton.

The 'pay' portion is used for specific weekly matchups, FF and betting. YAC would benefit from it as he uses a similar formula.

So you also feel Lions are Tier 1 ?

It's hard to argue against their expertise and history.

Did you read their assessment of why they have them in tier 1?

Would that be enough to elevate Goff to playing at a tier 1 level as well? Highly unlikely but he did have a nice second half of the season IIRC.

so would you bet on Det ?

Of course not. You need both. Why is this so hard to understand? LOL

Is it possible Goff gets hot at the right time and plays like a tier 1 QB through the playoffs? Sure...we've seen it before. But it's unlikely too.

+ Show all quotes
Goff is good and has good heart from a good family. He will get better after McKay gave the Tray Lance experience.

NC is right.. you need both a top tier O line and a good QB to help win it all. We forgot though that a top tier D is needed as well.

A complete team usually wins Superbowl. Most average fans ignore how critical a good OLine is, just to get a good average generic offense.

Best pass protectors man the OT positions, and the worst OLineman usually is (but not always) is the right guard.

Chris Jones agrees.

if Richburg was healthy and we had Brunskill at Right Guard, maybe Jimmy converts that 3rd down and we win. My hope is that the offensive line doesn't have those kinds of problems this year. I hope Burford flattens Jones in the playoffs.

Originally posted by Illgresi:
I just watched Purdy highlights from last season.

Do we even need an O Line?

Yeah, if you want Purdy to play longer than Andrew Luck.

Originally posted by Patton:
This is the single unit of this team that will determine this seasons success IMO.

I'm pretty confident in the interior offensive line and Trent, I have no clue how McKivitz is going do to. We'll see if they have to put a TE to help McKivitz in pass protection. I hope he'll be a better OLineman by week 17 vs week 1. Last year that line was the first time playing with each other, now with a year under their belt, hopefully they'll be a tier one offensive line and end the season strong.

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
never heard of tier 1 until today in this thread.. wth is that ? new name for #1 ranked OL like years past ?

It was introduced because PHI was #1 last year and didn't win

oh, moving the goal posts..

how many teams are in these tiers ?

2. Sometimes 3. For instance, only 2 are in the OL tier 1 this year. 3 on defense (including SF). Sometimes just 1.

Last year it was 2 OL: Eagles and Chiefs in tier 1. Chiefs got no lower than 3.

whats this years, Hoov mentioned Det ?

Where are these tiers coming from?

This year to 'start.'

Tier 1:
Eagles and Lions for OL
Cowboys, 9ers and Steelers for DL

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-offensive-line-rankings/
You
https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-defensive-line-rankings/

All will be reevaluated mid season and again going into the playoffs.

do you think it's wise to post pay sites as your source of truth when you don't read the entire articles because you, admittedly, don't ever pay for pay sites?

Do you need to pay to see the free tier 1's listed every time? LOL

Also, follow Brandon. He usually reveals a ton.

The 'pay' portion is used for specific weekly matchups, FF and betting. YAC would benefit from it as he uses a similar formula.

So you also feel Lions are Tier 1 ?

It's hard to argue against their expertise and history.

Did you read their assessment of why they have them in tier 1?

Would that be enough to elevate Goff to playing at a tier 1 level as well? Highly unlikely but he did have a nice second half of the season IIRC.

so would you bet on Det ?

Of course not. You need both. Why is this so hard to understand? LOL

Is it possible Goff gets hot at the right time and plays like a tier 1 QB through the playoffs? Sure...we've seen it before. But it's unlikely too.

+ Show all quotes
Goff is good and has good heart from a good family. He will get better after McKay gave the Tray Lance experience.

NC is right.. you need both a top tier O line and a good QB to help win it all. We forgot though that a top tier D is needed as well.

A complete team usually wins Superbowl. Most average fans ignore how critical a good OLine is, just to get a good average generic offense.

Best pass protectors man the OT positions, and the worst OLineman usually is (but not always) is the right guard.

Absolutely 💯 correct...

Danke good sir! With McCaffrey and Mitchell healthy, I look forward to all the creative blocking schemes Kyle will do this season for the run game.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
never heard of tier 1 until today in this thread.. wth is that ? new name for #1 ranked OL like years past ?

It was introduced because PHI was #1 last year and didn't win

oh, moving the goal posts..

how many teams are in these tiers ?

2. Sometimes 3. For instance, only 2 are in the OL tier 1 this year. 3 on defense (including SF). Sometimes just 1.

Last year it was 2 OL: Eagles and Chiefs in tier 1. Chiefs got no lower than 3.

whats this years, Hoov mentioned Det ?

Where are these tiers coming from?

This year to 'start.'

Tier 1:
Eagles and Lions for OL
Cowboys, 9ers and Steelers for DL

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-offensive-line-rankings/
You
https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-defensive-line-rankings/

All will be reevaluated mid season and again going into the playoffs.

do you think it's wise to post pay sites as your source of truth when you don't read the entire articles because you, admittedly, don't ever pay for pay sites?

Do you need to pay to see the free tier 1's listed every time? LOL

Also, follow Brandon. He usually reveals a ton.

The 'pay' portion is used for specific weekly matchups, FF and betting. YAC would benefit from it as he uses a similar formula.

So you also feel Lions are Tier 1 ?

It's hard to argue against their expertise and history.

Did you read their assessment of why they have them in tier 1?

Would that be enough to elevate Goff to playing at a tier 1 level as well? Highly unlikely but he did have a nice second half of the season IIRC.

so would you bet on Det ?

Of course not. You need both. Why is this so hard to understand? LOL

Is it possible Goff gets hot at the right time and plays like a tier 1 QB through the playoffs? Sure...we've seen it before. But it's unlikely too.

Goff is good and has good heart from a good family. He will get better after McKay gave the Tray Lance experience.

NC is right.. you need both a top tier O line and a good QB to help win it all. We forgot though that a top tier D is needed as well.

+ Show all quotes
A complete team usually wins Superbowl. Most average fans ignore how critical a good OLine is, just to get a good average generic offense.

Best pass protectors man the OT positions, and the worst OLineman usually is (but not always) is the right guard.

Absolutely 💯 correct...

Danke good sir! With McCaffrey and Mitchell healthy, I look forward to all the creative blocking schemes Kyle will do this season for the run game.

That's the hope I have as well, with TJ Watt licking his chops and Heyward coming in we are going to need that. I can see them putting 8 in the box with their ears back. We need to have Deebo inside slants to the middle and Ayuik going deeper. That will spread them out so we can get some peace of mind and kittle can burn them away from pass pro. If we don't protect Purdy it's gonna be a long day. I think as you said good assists from our RBs and kittle is going to help.

Originally posted by Patton:
This is the single unit of this team that will determine this seasons success IMO.

I don't think that's the case this year. Sure, they are definitely needed and definitely will help determine, but on offense Kyle can scheme to make up for some and Purdy's pocket awareness and elusiveness will mask some deficiencies. The D line is still key to our success IMO.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
We never had either. No tier 1 OL or QB. That was the real problem. We went as far as we could.

It's as far as they would've gone with a tier one OL too.

Does a tier one OL make the throw to Sanders?

It's moot. You need both. And that's a good example of why.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Gonna disagree with you on that one.

Of course you do. Because it torpedoes the whole argument. That's why now pressures aren't the same thing they were 2 years ago. You are spinning that Kcs pressures are ok because Patrick can take advantage of the space when Jimmy could not.

No, I'm saying if you're going to pivot to PFF, pressures of 35%+ are normal in that metric. You and French are using it as a negative to try and prove KC didn't have a tier 1 OL and the QB made the OL. Which is just silly.

But that is true. Not all pressures are the same.

And yes, that's in part because of the style of QB you have. A classic pocket passer (which a guy like JG, Brady, Brees, etc. would need to improve their odds of winning it all) and more mobile QB (which isn't 'as' critical).

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by Patton:
This is the single unit of this team that will determine this seasons success IMO.

I don't think that's the case this year. Sure, they are definitely needed and definitely will help determine, but on offense Kyle can scheme to make up for some and Purdy's pocket awareness and elusiveness will mask some deficiencies. The D line is still key to our success IMO.

Yeah, Kyle can certainly scheme around a lot. We'll probably see it against the Steelers and their pass rush. CMC as a security blanket has been heaven-sent for SF QB's as well. That all helps a ton. But eventually, the OL will have to stand on their own too esp. in the playoffs.

I don't know why the FO can't find 2 ER's and build a DL that closes out 10 point leads. It's really odd.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by Patton:
This is the single unit of this team that will determine this seasons success IMO.

I don't think that's the case this year. Sure, they are definitely needed and definitely will help determine, but on offense Kyle can scheme to make up for some and Purdy's pocket awareness and elusiveness will mask some deficiencies. The D line is still key to our success IMO.

Yeah, Kyle can certainly scheme around a lot. We'll probably see it against the Steelers and their pass rush. CMC as a security blanket has been heaven-sent for SF QB's as well. That all helps a ton. But eventually, the OL will have to stand on their own too esp. in the playoffs.

I don't know why the FO can't find 2 ER's and build a DL that closes out 10 point leads. It's really odd.

I'm wondering if Kyle can just get better at execution. I know Kyle can scheme around offensive and defensive weakness, but can he also work on execution? One of the things he likes to do is throw away plays to set up explosive plays down the road. I'm wondering if those *throw away* plays can be made more useful by focusing on execution and making those *throw away* plays more productive. Example: Green Bay under Vince Lombardi, that green bay sweep, everybody knew it would be coming, but not very many teams could stop Green Bay's execution of that play.

Originally posted by Patton:
This is the single unit of this team that will determine this seasons success IMO.

There are 5 players out of 11 on this unit. Saying such isint exactly a shot in the dark.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by Patton:
This is the single unit of this team that will determine this seasons success IMO.

+ Show all quotes
I don't think that's the case this year. Sure, they are definitely needed and definitely will help determine, but on offense Kyle can scheme to make up for some and Purdy's pocket awareness and elusiveness will mask some deficiencies. The D line is still key to our success IMO.

Yeah, Kyle can certainly scheme around a lot. We'll probably see it against the Steelers and their pass rush. CMC as a security blanket has been heaven-sent for SF QB's as well. That all helps a ton. But eventually, the OL will have to stand on their own too esp. in the playoffs.

I don't know why the FO can't find 2 ER's and build a DL that closes out 10 point leads. It's really odd.

I'm wondering if Kyle can just get better at execution. I know Kyle can scheme around offensive and defensive weakness, but can he also work on execution? One of the things he likes to do is throw away plays to set up explosive plays down the road. I'm wondering if those *throw away* plays can be made more useful by focusing on execution and making those *throw away* plays more productive. Example: Green Bay under Vince Lombardi, that green bay sweep, everybody knew it would be coming, but not very many teams could stop Green Bay's execution of that play.

Ironically, I think the key to this offense is Foerster and Lynn. Those 2 design the running game. Although Foerster himself said he didn't really know what his running game coordinator title actually meant. So it sounds like the design is really on Lynn and Kyle.

"Execution" is on Foerster. As we've seen, if you can stuff the run, that kills this offense. We now have 5 OL well versed in the system and a FB & TE's too.

Kyle's "genius" to me is more about how his designs help get guys wide open despite it being a pretty rudimentary passing game both in design and volume.

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I'm saying if you're going to pivot to PFF, pressures of 35%+ are normal in that metric. You and French are using it as a negative to try and prove KC didn't have a tier 1 OL and the QB made the OL. Which is just silly.

But that is true. Not all pressures are the same.

And yes, that's in part because of the style of QB you have. A classic pocket passer (which a guy like JG, Brady, Brees, etc. would need to improve their odds of winning it all) and more mobile QB (which isn't 'as' critical).

Not all pressures are the same? You mean the argument thst was made to you ad nauseum 2 years ago. Funny how it only becomes that the moment it doesn't fit your argument anymore.

You don't get to change how you analyze the productivity of a group solely on the ability of their qb to make plays. It's not bad blocking for one team and fine blocking for another because the more capable qb made a play.