49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by frenchmov:
I think we're just going to disagree on a lot related to OL vs QB so I'll leave it at that BUT I will say jimmy missed several easy opportunities when we had a 10 point lead. One play would have been a walk in TD as Bourne (or Coleman?) motioned and just uncovered on the right sideline, hand up. He probably wouldn't have been touched before the endzone

However, jimmy decided to throw to a contested kittle over the middle and the ball was knocked down anyways.

These are the realities he ignores because of his narrative.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I've posted this before. That ankle injury was on him. He had plenty of time and space to hit his wide open check down and stay healthy. The 'pressure' even forced him to the check down side. He chose for the bigger play and got hurt.

=zORFXoSNsh-Hiqnc

So there was time for Mahomes to make a decision and he made the wrong one and you don't blame the OL for it? 2021 you would be apoplectic.

There was 1) A lane to step up in 2) A wide open check down and 3) Time to go to read 2

The pressure only matters because he held the ball too long trying to find a bigger play.

In PFF, that's still marked as a pressure. And rightfully so. But it also doesn't tell you the context.

So like the niners last few drives in SB and NFCCG. Thanks for confirming

LMAO. We haven't had a check down here until CMC.

Love CMC, he' can operate the gap scheme and the zone scheme. Dude is a first round first pick level talent. Hall of fame potential this year if he can do what Marshal Faulk and Ricky Waters did for their respective offenses. I noticed that Trent and Banks are 320+ Lbs, while Brendel, Burford, and McKivitz are hovering around 300 Lbs. So gap runs to the left, and zone run to the right. Really great for those naked boots to the right for Purdy. If defenses ignore the gap scheme runs to the left, and just Tee off on Purdy, Kyle will make them pay. Zone runs to the right, and if the defenses tee off on those zone runs, then Kyle will just counter with the Counter Trey. I want to see Big Trent Williams clock a pittsburg DE/DT and road grade him in the BlitzBurg game.

Once the site is updated, you should look up Football Outsiders Directional Offensive Line stats. That'd be cool to see which side of the OL (and where) we ran with the most/least success.

Just checked Football Outsiders, seems the site is down today (possibly for labor day maintenance). Looks like they have some interesting stats, for sure.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LMAO.

Now Jeff Wilson Jr. >>>>> CMC

You love pivoting to Jimmy. So funny.

You love to take arguments to extremes to make ridiculous points because you are so wrong on everything.

Jeff Wilson is not better than CMC. But to say our backs couldn't catch previous to CMC is also patently false. They just weren't used properly because the QB was not good ant doing progressions. Objective fact.

Again why does Brock have no issue finding Elijah?

Haha... We went from "we never had anybody else" to "you're saying he's better than CMC" in lightning bait-and-switch" speed.

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree that making the playoffs and making the Superbowl is better than not making it. I think eventually our *luck* will turn, and the breaks should go for us rather than against us. I still cite the fact that the 49ers have 20+ years of making the playoffs but only 5 super bowls to show for it.

We have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL for sure, and I think the problem both NC and I have is with the coaches is the draft capital that's been devoted to the Offensive Line. It looks like the 49ers would rather get free agents for the OLine than spending draft capital. The good is you save draft capital for the important DLine/DE position - which is important, but when the 49ers use draft capital for the offensive line, it's more mid to late rounds, with undrafted free agents rounding out depth.

I think now that we have a franchise QB, I think that mixture has to change - not a whole lot, but just a bit to deal with Trent's inevitable retirement and developing some depth behind the starters to protect the all-important franchise QB.

I understand your concern and also wish we had someone to bookend our line that wasn't a question mark, plus better depth. But you can't have every unit on the team filled with stars. The fact we have the best offensive linemen in the league coupled with a young and up and coming interior is a recipe for success there. You can't say our FO hasn't dedicated resources here.

Clearly the interior, which has been developed through the draft, becoming a strength was not something the armchair GMs like NC could see coming. Last year at this time NC was constantly ragging on our brain trust for rolling out with Banks, Brendel, and Burford. And guess what, these dudes brought it. They weren't top tier, but they're young and will only get better this year. So the FO must be confident they can develop players, and you know what? I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are the professionals working day in day out with these guys. NC is not.

Yes, because this FO never makes mistakes or has blind spots to team building. LOL.

Year 4, year 5, year 6, etc.

Have I been wrong?

Also, look through the board. There's just as much "complaining" about the QB, wasted draft picks, cap space, ER2, secondary, health, practice style, etc.

These are just discussions on how fans believe we can win #6.

And many times, fans are right in the end. Many times they're wrong.

Let's see what happens in year 7 and hope the FO got it right this time because we all want the same thing.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I've posted this before. That ankle injury was on him. He had plenty of time and space to hit his wide open check down and stay healthy. The 'pressure' even forced him to the check down side. He chose for the bigger play and got hurt.

=zORFXoSNsh-Hiqnc

So there was time for Mahomes to make a decision and he made the wrong one and you don't blame the OL for it? 2021 you would be apoplectic.

There was 1) A lane to step up in 2) A wide open check down and 3) Time to go to read 2

The pressure only matters because he held the ball too long trying to find a bigger play.

In PFF, that's still marked as a pressure. And rightfully so. But it also doesn't tell you the context.

So like the niners last few drives in SB and NFCCG. Thanks for confirming

LMAO. We haven't had a check down here until CMC.

Love CMC, he' can operate the gap scheme and the zone scheme. Dude is a first round first pick level talent. Hall of fame potential this year if he can do what Marshal Faulk and Ricky Waters did for their respective offenses. I noticed that Trent and Banks are 320+ Lbs, while Brendel, Burford, and McKivitz are hovering around 300 Lbs. So gap runs to the left, and zone run to the right. Really great for those naked boots to the right for Purdy. If defenses ignore the gap scheme runs to the left, and just Tee off on Purdy, Kyle will make them pay. Zone runs to the right, and if the defenses tee off on those zone runs, then Kyle will just counter with the Counter Trey. I want to see Big Trent Williams clock a pittsburg DE/DT and road grade him in the BlitzBurg game.

Once the site is updated, you should look up Football Outsiders Directional Offensive Line stats. That'd be cool to see which side of the OL (and where) we ran with the most/least success.

Just checked Football Outsiders, seems the site is down today (possibly for labor day maintenance). Looks like they have some interesting stats, for sure.

Yeah, they're probably doing some maintenance. It's good stuff for sure. Let me know what you find.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LMAO.

Now Jeff Wilson Jr. >>>>> CMC

You love pivoting to Jimmy. So funny.

You love to take arguments to extremes to make ridiculous points because you are so wrong on everything.

Jeff Wilson is not better than CMC. But to say our backs couldn't catch previous to CMC is also patently false. They just weren't used properly because the QB was not good ant doing progressions. Objective fact.

Again why does Brock have no issue finding Elijah?

And when did CMC get here? And how did that affect Jimmy's play? Come on, man.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by frenchmov:
I think we're just going to disagree on a lot related to OL vs QB so I'll leave it at that BUT I will say jimmy missed several easy opportunities when we had a 10 point lead. One play would have been a walk in TD as Bourne (or Coleman?) motioned and just uncovered on the right sideline, hand up. He probably wouldn't have been touched before the endzone

However, jimmy decided to throw to a contested kittle over the middle and the ball was knocked down anyways.

These are the realities he ignores because of his narrative.

The reality is Jimmy was never a tier 1 QB. For us to have a realistic shot, he needed a tier 1 OL and a lot of other key factors to hold and do their part...from the defense closing, ST not pinning us down, coaching, top health, etc. There was little room for error.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree that making the playoffs and making the Superbowl is better than not making it. I think eventually our *luck* will turn, and the breaks should go for us rather than against us. I still cite the fact that the 49ers have 20+ years of making the playoffs but only 5 super bowls to show for it.

We have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL for sure, and I think the problem both NC and I have is with the coaches is the draft capital that's been devoted to the Offensive Line. It looks like the 49ers would rather get free agents for the OLine than spending draft capital. The good is you save draft capital for the important DLine/DE position - which is important, but when the 49ers use draft capital for the offensive line, it's more mid to late rounds, with undrafted free agents rounding out depth.

I think now that we have a franchise QB, I think that mixture has to change - not a whole lot, but just a bit to deal with Trent's inevitable retirement and developing some depth behind the starters to protect the all-important franchise QB.

I understand your concern and also wish we had someone to bookend our line that wasn't a question mark, plus better depth. But you can't have every unit on the team filled with stars. The fact we have the best offensive linemen in the league coupled with a young and up and coming interior is a recipe for success there. You can't say our FO hasn't dedicated resources here.

Clearly the interior, which has been developed through the draft, becoming a strength was not something the armchair GMs like NC could see coming. Last year at this time NC was constantly ragging on our brain trust for rolling out with Banks, Brendel, and Burford. And guess what, these dudes brought it. They weren't top tier, but they're young and will only get better this year. So the FO must be confident they can develop players, and you know what? I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are the professionals working day in day out with these guys. NC is not.

Yes, because this FO never makes mistakes or has blind spots to team building. LOL.

Year 4, year 5, year 6, etc.

Have I been wrong?

Also, look through the board. There's just as much "complaining" about the QB, wasted draft picks, cap space, ER2, secondary, health, practice style, etc.

These are just discussions on how fans believe we can win #6.

And many times, fans are right in the end. Many times they're wrong.

Let's see what happens in year 7 and hope the FO got it right this time because we all want the same thing.

Originally sted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree that making the playoffs and making the Superbowl is better than not making it. I think eventually our *luck* will turn, and the breaks should go for us rather than against us. I still cite the fact that the 49ers have 20+ years of making the playoffs but only 5 super bowls to show for it.

We have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL for sure, and I think the problem both NC and I have is with the coaches is the draft capital that's been devoted to the Offensive Line. It looks like the 49ers would rather get free agents for the OLine than spending draft capital. The good is you save draft capital for the important DLine/DE position - which is important, but when the 49ers use draft capital for the offensive line, it's more mid to late rounds, with undrafted free agents rounding out depth.

I think now that we have a franchise QB, I think that mixture has to change - not a whole lot, but just a bit to deal with Trent's inevitable retirement and developing some depth behind the starters to protect the all-important franchise QB.

I understand your concern and also wish we had someone to bookend our line that wasn't a question mark, plus better depth. But you can't have every unit on the team filled with stars. The fact we have the best offensive linemen in the league coupled with a young and up and coming interior is a recipe for success there. You can't say our FO hasn't dedicated resources here.

Clearly the interior, which has been developed through the draft, becoming a strength was not something the armchair GMs like NC could see coming. Last year at this time NC was constantly ragging on our brain trust for rolling out with Banks, Brendel, and Burford. And guess what, these dudes brought it. They weren't top tier, but they're young and will only get better this year. So the FO must be confident they can develop players, and you know what? I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are the professionals working day in day out with these guys. NC is not.

Yes, because this FO never makes mistakes or has blind spots to team building. LOL.

Year 4, year 5, year 6, etc.

Have I been wrong?

Also, look through the board. There's just as much "complaining" about the QB, wasted draft picks, cap space, ER2, secondary, health, practice style, etc.

These are just discussions on how fans believe we can win #6.

And many times, fans are right in the end. Many times they're wrong.

Let's see what happens in year 7 and hope the FO got it right this time because we all want the same thing.

I never claimed they were infallible. Retrospectively, we can easily point to each mistake this FO, and every FO for that matter, has made. There's no FO that is without mistakes. The problem lies in where their mistakes are given more weight than their successes. Obviously, we have one of the strongest teams in the league, therefore the sum total of the mistakes and successes would heavily favor the successes. It's really simple accounting. So when I see fans wax woetic about every single mistake, it's just rings hollow when we're a championship caliber roster.

And yes, you've been wrong plenty. Are you kidding? Everyone is wrong to some degree in their prognostications.

This board doesn't just exist to serve people whining about things. There's plenty of ways we can both be critical and supportive without being armchair GMs who whine about things in retrospect when we do win it all every year. I just don't get why folks can't have patience when things are clearly going well. Like, prematurely crying about our offensive line didn't look so hot last year, did it? So maybe we should also wait and see this year. This doesn't mean that I am stoked about who we are running out there with regarding our RT and general depth, but s**t man, there's so much context here. Maybe our brain trust didn't like the guys in the third that were armchair GM favorites. Maybe our FO liked guys that they feel they can develop and have an inside track in improving. After seeing Banks excel last year after this board, almost unilaterally, panned the pick and the player, I think we should take a step back and reserve judgement on our failure as an organization.

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally sted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree that making the playoffs and making the Superbowl is better than not making it. I think eventually our *luck* will turn, and the breaks should go for us rather than against us. I still cite the fact that the 49ers have 20+ years of making the playoffs but only 5 super bowls to show for it.

We have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL for sure, and I think the problem both NC and I have is with the coaches is the draft capital that's been devoted to the Offensive Line. It looks like the 49ers would rather get free agents for the OLine than spending draft capital. The good is you save draft capital for the important DLine/DE position - which is important, but when the 49ers use draft capital for the offensive line, it's more mid to late rounds, with undrafted free agents rounding out depth.

I think now that we have a franchise QB, I think that mixture has to change - not a whole lot, but just a bit to deal with Trent's inevitable retirement and developing some depth behind the starters to protect the all-important franchise QB.

I understand your concern and also wish we had someone to bookend our line that wasn't a question mark, plus better depth. But you can't have every unit on the team filled with stars. The fact we have the best offensive linemen in the league coupled with a young and up and coming interior is a recipe for success there. You can't say our FO hasn't dedicated resources here.

Clearly the interior, which has been developed through the draft, becoming a strength was not something the armchair GMs like NC could see coming. Last year at this time NC was constantly ragging on our brain trust for rolling out with Banks, Brendel, and Burford. And guess what, these dudes brought it. They weren't top tier, but they're young and will only get better this year. So the FO must be confident they can develop players, and you know what? I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are the professionals working day in day out with these guys. NC is not.

Yes, because this FO never makes mistakes or has blind spots to team building. LOL.

Year 4, year 5, year 6, etc.

Have I been wrong?

Also, look through the board. There's just as much "complaining" about the QB, wasted draft picks, cap space, ER2, secondary, health, practice style, etc.

These are just discussions on how fans believe we can win #6.

And many times, fans are right in the end. Many times they're wrong.

Let's see what happens in year 7 and hope the FO got it right this time because we all want the same thing.

I never claimed they were infallible. Retrospectively, we can easily point to each mistake this FO, and every FO for that matter, has made. There's no FO that is without mistakes. The problem lies in where their mistakes are given more weight than their successes. Obviously, we have one of the strongest teams in the league, therefore the sum total of the mistakes and successes would heavily favor the successes. It's really simple accounting. So when I see fans wax woetic about every single mistake, it's just rings hollow when we're a championship caliber roster.

And yes, you've been wrong plenty. Are you kidding? Everyone is wrong to some degree in their prognostications.

This board doesn't just exist to serve people whining about things. There's plenty of ways we can both be critical and supportive without being armchair GMs who whine about things in retrospect when we do win it all every year. I just don't get why folks can't have patience when things are clearly going well. Like, prematurely crying about our offensive line didn't look so hot last year, did it? So maybe we should also wait and see this year. This doesn't mean that I am stoked about who we are running out there with regarding our RT and general depth, but s**t man, there's so much context here. Maybe our brain trust didn't like the guys in the third that were armchair GM favorites. Maybe our FO liked guys that they feel they can develop and have an inside track in improving. After seeing Banks excel last year after this board, almost unilaterally, panned the pick and the player, I think we should take a step back and reserve judgement on our failure as an organization.

We're in the OL thread. Have I been wrong in the end on 'this' topic?

I also never said anything negative about the 3 B's...in fact, I was one of the first fans of Brendel. I voiced concerns like everyone but reserved judgement until we knew more mid season. Same concept this year with McKivitz.

Originally posted by NCommand:
And when did CMC get here? And how did that affect Jimmy's play? Come on, man.

If CMC gets hurt this year the throws to the RBs won't drop like a rock. It's part of the offense that Brock can execute at a much higher level because he's better at reading defenses. Simple.

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree that making the playoffs and making the Superbowl is better than not making it. I think eventually our *luck* will turn, and the breaks should go for us rather than against us. I still cite the fact that the 49ers have 20+ years of making the playoffs but only 5 super bowls to show for it.

We have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL for sure, and I think the problem both NC and I have is with the coaches is the draft capital that's been devoted to the Offensive Line. It looks like the 49ers would rather get free agents for the OLine than spending draft capital. The good is you save draft capital for the important DLine/DE position - which is important, but when the 49ers use draft capital for the offensive line, it's more mid to late rounds, with undrafted free agents rounding out depth.

I think now that we have a franchise QB, I think that mixture has to change - not a whole lot, but just a bit to deal with Trent's inevitable retirement and developing some depth behind the starters to protect the all-important franchise QB.

I understand your concern and also wish we had someone to bookend our line that wasn't a question mark, plus better depth. But you can't have every unit on the team filled with stars. The fact we have the best offensive linemen in the league coupled with a young and up and coming interior is a recipe for success there. You can't say our FO hasn't dedicated resources here.

Clearly the interior, which has been developed through the draft, becoming a strength was not something the armchair GMs like NC could see coming. Last year at this time NC was constantly ragging on our brain trust for rolling out with Banks, Brendel, and Burford. And guess what, these dudes brought it. They weren't top tier, but they're young and will only get better this year. So the FO must be confident they can develop players, and you know what? I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are the professionals working day in day out with these guys. NC is not.

For me, I think the OLine drafting has been decent since the Trey was drafted (2021 and 2022). ShanaLynch has devoted about two picks (one mid-range one low round) to the OLine. There was a break this last year where *no offenisive lineman* was drafted in 2023. That has to change in 2024, with Trent Aging and where Brock needs to be protected.

Foerster is a good OLine coach. He was instrumental in developing that interior line last year, my simple point is give Foerster some draft picks and don't rely on UDFA's to bolster that OLIne, specially with protecting our new potential franchise QB. I was very disappointed this year in no draft capital being devoted to the OLine despite having 9 picks, and they will have around 12 picks next year because of all the compensatory picks. The trade up with Trey really hurt this year due to no first round picks, and that was where the meat of the OLine draft was this year, according to the Draft Nerds. I think McKivitz is going to be a good player, but there is no real depth behind the 5 starters - and that can be changed with a good solid draft next year. 12 picks says they *should* devote some to the OLine next year - whether they will or not, remains to be seen.

P.S. The problem I see with free agent offensive line acquisitions is they are failing to take advantage of Foerster's ability to develop OLinemen. Why not devote some low round picks (say a some 7th rounders) and have Foerster develop them, keep them for 3+ years, before letting them go. Versus, signing these free agents and letting them go the next year and be back to square one depthwise every year.

Originally posted by NCommand:
We're in the OL thread. Have I been wrong in the end on 'this' topic?

I also never said anything negative about the 3 B's...in fact, I was one of the first fans of Brendel. I voiced concerns like everyone but reserved judgement until we knew more mid season. Same concept this year with McKivitz.

Have you been wrong? Every step of the way. Then when you get called out you dodge while simultaneously strawmanning everyone else.

Remember when the Rams were so much more committed to their o line building? That went quiet awfully fast last year.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally sted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree that making the playoffs and making the Superbowl is better than not making it. I think eventually our *luck* will turn, and the breaks should go for us rather than against us. I still cite the fact that the 49ers have 20+ years of making the playoffs but only 5 super bowls to show for it.

We have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL for sure, and I think the problem both NC and I have is with the coaches is the draft capital that's been devoted to the Offensive Line. It looks like the 49ers would rather get free agents for the OLine than spending draft capital. The good is you save draft capital for the important DLine/DE position - which is important, but when the 49ers use draft capital for the offensive line, it's more mid to late rounds, with undrafted free agents rounding out depth.

I think now that we have a franchise QB, I think that mixture has to change - not a whole lot, but just a bit to deal with Trent's inevitable retirement and developing some depth behind the starters to protect the all-important franchise QB.

I understand your concern and also wish we had someone to bookend our line that wasn't a question mark, plus better depth. But you can't have every unit on the team filled with stars. The fact we have the best offensive linemen in the league coupled with a young and up and coming interior is a recipe for success there. You can't say our FO hasn't dedicated resources here.

Clearly the interior, which has been developed through the draft, becoming a strength was not something the armchair GMs like NC could see coming. Last year at this time NC was constantly ragging on our brain trust for rolling out with Banks, Brendel, and Burford. And guess what, these dudes brought it. They weren't top tier, but they're young and will only get better this year. So the FO must be confident they can develop players, and you know what? I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are the professionals working day in day out with these guys. NC is not.

Yes, because this FO never makes mistakes or has blind spots to team building. LOL.

Year 4, year 5, year 6, etc.

Have I been wrong?

Also, look through the board. There's just as much "complaining" about the QB, wasted draft picks, cap space, ER2, secondary, health, practice style, etc.

These are just discussions on how fans believe we can win #6.

And many times, fans are right in the end. Many times they're wrong.

Let's see what happens in year 7 and hope the FO got it right this time because we all want the same thing.

I never claimed they were infallible. Retrospectively, we can easily point to each mistake this FO, and every FO for that matter, has made. There's no FO that is without mistakes. The problem lies in where their mistakes are given more weight than their successes. Obviously, we have one of the strongest teams in the league, therefore the sum total of the mistakes and successes would heavily favor the successes. It's really simple accounting. So when I see fans wax woetic about every single mistake, it's just rings hollow when we're a championship caliber roster.

And yes, you've been wrong plenty. Are you kidding? Everyone is wrong to some degree in their prognostications.

This board doesn't just exist to serve people whining about things. There's plenty of ways we can both be critical and supportive without being armchair GMs who whine about things in retrospect when we do win it all every year. I just don't get why folks can't have patience when things are clearly going well. Like, prematurely crying about our offensive line didn't look so hot last year, did it? So maybe we should also wait and see this year. This doesn't mean that I am stoked about who we are running out there with regarding our RT and general depth, but s**t man, there's so much context here. Maybe our brain trust didn't like the guys in the third that were armchair GM favorites. Maybe our FO liked guys that they feel they can develop and have an inside track in improving. After seeing Banks excel last year after this board, almost unilaterally, panned the pick and the player, I think we should take a step back and reserve judgement on our failure as an organization.

We're in the OL thread. Have I been wrong in the end on 'this' topic?

I also never said anything negative about the 3 B's...in fact, I was one of the first fans of Brendel. I voiced concerns like everyone but reserved judgement until we knew more mid season. Same concept this year with McKivitz.

No one has ever accused me of having a good memory, but I seem to recall you being really critical that we did not address the interior of our Oline the entire offseason last year. So, unless my memory is failing me (and it's certainly possible), then yes, you've been wrong.

Originally posted by Chance:
No one has ever accused me of having a good memory, but I seem to recall you being really critical that we did not address the interior of our Oline the entire offseason last year. So, unless my memory is failing me (and it's certainly possible), then yes, you've been wrong.

Hes critical every year when every pick isn't devoted to the o line whether it's warranted or not. Hell be critical next year unless every pick is an o lineman. It's the shtick.