49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by random49er:
Haha... We went from "we never had anybody else" to "you're saying he's better than CMC" in lightning bait-and-switch" speed.

Does it all the time. Because people disagree thst we need the best oline in the league to win a SB it's any OL will do.

The better qbs win games without great OL play all the damn time. But when you won't admit it you start splitting hairs about why the pressures they gave up weren't as bad as the 9ers.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
We're in the OL thread. Have I been wrong in the end on 'this' topic?

I also never said anything negative about the 3 B's...in fact, I was one of the first fans of Brendel. I voiced concerns like everyone but reserved judgement until we knew more mid season. Same concept this year with McKivitz.

Have you been wrong? Every step of the way. Then when you get called out you dodge while simultaneously strawmanning everyone else.

Remember when the Rams were so much more committed to their o line building? That went quiet awfully fast last year.

It's always interesting looking at NC's view of reality compared to how everyone else views the actual reality

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree that making the playoffs and making the Superbowl is better than not making it. I think eventually our *luck* will turn, and the breaks should go for us rather than against us. I still cite the fact that the 49ers have 20+ years of making the playoffs but only 5 super bowls to show for it.

We have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL for sure, and I think the problem both NC and I have is with the coaches is the draft capital that's been devoted to the Offensive Line. It looks like the 49ers would rather get free agents for the OLine than spending draft capital. The good is you save draft capital for the important DLine/DE position - which is important, but when the 49ers use draft capital for the offensive line, it's more mid to late rounds, with undrafted free agents rounding out depth.

I think now that we have a franchise QB, I think that mixture has to change - not a whole lot, but just a bit to deal with Trent's inevitable retirement and developing some depth behind the starters to protect the all-important franchise QB.

I understand your concern and also wish we had someone to bookend our line that wasn't a question mark, plus better depth. But you can't have every unit on the team filled with stars. The fact we have the best offensive linemen in the league coupled with a young and up and coming interior is a recipe for success there. You can't say our FO hasn't dedicated resources here.

Clearly the interior, which has been developed through the draft, becoming a strength was not something the armchair GMs like NC could see coming. Last year at this time NC was constantly ragging on our brain trust for rolling out with Banks, Brendel, and Burford. And guess what, these dudes brought it. They weren't top tier, but they're young and will only get better this year. So the FO must be confident they can develop players, and you know what? I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are the professionals working day in day out with these guys. NC is not.

For me, I think the OLine drafting has been decent since the Trey was drafted (2021 and 2022). ShanaLynch has devoted about two picks (one mid-range one low round) to the OLine. There was a break this last year where *no offenisive lineman* was drafted in 2023. That has to change in 2024, with Trent Aging and where Brock needs to be protected.

Foerster is a good OLine coach. He was instrumental in developing that interior line last year, my simple point is give Foerster some draft picks and don't rely on UDFA's to bolster that OLIne, specially with protecting our new potential franchise QB. I was very disappointed this year in no draft capital being devoted to the OLine despite having 9 picks, and they will have around 12 picks next year because of all the compensatory picks. The trade up with Trey really hurt this year due to no first round picks, and that was where the meat of the OLine draft was this year, according to the Draft Nerds. I think McKivitz is going to be a good player, but there is no real depth behind the 5 starters - and that can be changed with a good solid draft next year. 12 picks says they *should* devote some to the OLine next year - whether they will or not, remains to be seen.

P.S. The problem I see with free agent offensive line acquisitions is they are failing to take advantage of Foerster's ability to develop OLinemen. Why not devote some low round picks (say a some 7th rounders) and have Foerster develop them, keep them for 3+ years, before letting them go. Versus, signing these free agents and letting them go the next year and be back to square one depthwise every year.

Without a doubt we'll need to get some Oline next year.

I'm personally not sold on McKivitz and have never been impressed with his play. Even the game against the Rams when he filled in for Trent and was widely regarded as a good game, I thought he looked pretty terrible and needed a lot of help on his side. But I am hopeful he has developed since then to be as good as what we've had the last few years at RT. I also wished we had drafted a T in the 3rd round, but I also know jack s**t about college players, so have no idea whether a prospect at T was worth it there, or whether those prospects were better than Jaylon Moore is right now. It could simply be that, as mediocre as Moore has looked, those guys in the third didn't seem like they would have unseat him on the depth chart. So in that regard, I give the staff the benefit of the doubt wrgt the last draft.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And when did CMC get here? And how did that affect Jimmy's play? Come on, man.

If CMC gets hurt this year the throws to the RBs won't drop like a rock. It's part of the offense that Brock can execute at a much higher level because he's better at reading defenses. Simple.

Let hope we don't have to test that theory.

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally sted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree that making the playoffs and making the Superbowl is better than not making it. I think eventually our *luck* will turn, and the breaks should go for us rather than against us. I still cite the fact that the 49ers have 20+ years of making the playoffs but only 5 super bowls to show for it.

We have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL for sure, and I think the problem both NC and I have is with the coaches is the draft capital that's been devoted to the Offensive Line. It looks like the 49ers would rather get free agents for the OLine than spending draft capital. The good is you save draft capital for the important DLine/DE position - which is important, but when the 49ers use draft capital for the offensive line, it's more mid to late rounds, with undrafted free agents rounding out depth.

I think now that we have a franchise QB, I think that mixture has to change - not a whole lot, but just a bit to deal with Trent's inevitable retirement and developing some depth behind the starters to protect the all-important franchise QB.

I understand your concern and also wish we had someone to bookend our line that wasn't a question mark, plus better depth. But you can't have every unit on the team filled with stars. The fact we have the best offensive linemen in the league coupled with a young and up and coming interior is a recipe for success there. You can't say our FO hasn't dedicated resources here.

Clearly the interior, which has been developed through the draft, becoming a strength was not something the armchair GMs like NC could see coming. Last year at this time NC was constantly ragging on our brain trust for rolling out with Banks, Brendel, and Burford. And guess what, these dudes brought it. They weren't top tier, but they're young and will only get better this year. So the FO must be confident they can develop players, and you know what? I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are the professionals working day in day out with these guys. NC is not.

Yes, because this FO never makes mistakes or has blind spots to team building. LOL.

Year 4, year 5, year 6, etc.

Have I been wrong?

Also, look through the board. There's just as much "complaining" about the QB, wasted draft picks, cap space, ER2, secondary, health, practice style, etc.

These are just discussions on how fans believe we can win #6.

And many times, fans are right in the end. Many times they're wrong.

Let's see what happens in year 7 and hope the FO got it right this time because we all want the same thing.

+ Show all quotes
I never claimed they were infallible. Retrospectively, we can easily point to each mistake this FO, and every FO for that matter, has made. There's no FO that is without mistakes. The problem lies in where their mistakes are given more weight than their successes. Obviously, we have one of the strongest teams in the league, therefore the sum total of the mistakes and successes would heavily favor the successes. It's really simple accounting. So when I see fans wax woetic about every single mistake, it's just rings hollow when we're a championship caliber roster.

And yes, you've been wrong plenty. Are you kidding? Everyone is wrong to some degree in their prognostications.

This board doesn't just exist to serve people whining about things. There's plenty of ways we can both be critical and supportive without being armchair GMs who whine about things in retrospect when we do win it all every year. I just don't get why folks can't have patience when things are clearly going well. Like, prematurely crying about our offensive line didn't look so hot last year, did it? So maybe we should also wait and see this year. This doesn't mean that I am stoked about who we are running out there with regarding our RT and general depth, but s**t man, there's so much context here. Maybe our brain trust didn't like the guys in the third that were armchair GM favorites. Maybe our FO liked guys that they feel they can develop and have an inside track in improving. After seeing Banks excel last year after this board, almost unilaterally, panned the pick and the player, I think we should take a step back and reserve judgement on our failure as an organization.

We're in the OL thread. Have I been wrong in the end on 'this' topic?

I also never said anything negative about the 3 B's...in fact, I was one of the first fans of Brendel. I voiced concerns like everyone but reserved judgement until we knew more mid season. Same concept this year with McKivitz.

No one has ever accused me of having a good memory, but I seem to recall you being really critical that we did not address the interior of our Oline the entire offseason last year. So, unless my memory is failing me (and it's certainly possible), then yes, you've been wrong.

All good.

Do you think this OL in year 7 is strong enough for Brock, Kyle, etc. to get us 6, finally?

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree that making the playoffs and making the Superbowl is better than not making it. I think eventually our *luck* will turn, and the breaks should go for us rather than against us. I still cite the fact that the 49ers have 20+ years of making the playoffs but only 5 super bowls to show for it.

We have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL for sure, and I think the problem both NC and I have is with the coaches is the draft capital that's been devoted to the Offensive Line. It looks like the 49ers would rather get free agents for the OLine than spending draft capital. The good is you save draft capital for the important DLine/DE position - which is important, but when the 49ers use draft capital for the offensive line, it's more mid to late rounds, with undrafted free agents rounding out depth.

I think now that we have a franchise QB, I think that mixture has to change - not a whole lot, but just a bit to deal with Trent's inevitable retirement and developing some depth behind the starters to protect the all-important franchise QB.

+ Show all quotes
I understand your concern and also wish we had someone to bookend our line that wasn't a question mark, plus better depth. But you can't have every unit on the team filled with stars. The fact we have the best offensive linemen in the league coupled with a young and up and coming interior is a recipe for success there. You can't say our FO hasn't dedicated resources here.

Clearly the interior, which has been developed through the draft, becoming a strength was not something the armchair GMs like NC could see coming. Last year at this time NC was constantly ragging on our brain trust for rolling out with Banks, Brendel, and Burford. And guess what, these dudes brought it. They weren't top tier, but they're young and will only get better this year. So the FO must be confident they can develop players, and you know what? I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are the professionals working day in day out with these guys. NC is not.

For me, I think the OLine drafting has been decent since the Trey was drafted (2021 and 2022). ShanaLynch has devoted about two picks (one mid-range one low round) to the OLine. There was a break this last year where *no offenisive lineman* was drafted in 2023. That has to change in 2024, with Trent Aging and where Brock needs to be protected.

Foerster is a good OLine coach. He was instrumental in developing that interior line last year, my simple point is give Foerster some draft picks and don't rely on UDFA's to bolster that OLIne, specially with protecting our new potential franchise QB. I was very disappointed this year in no draft capital being devoted to the OLine despite having 9 picks, and they will have around 12 picks next year because of all the compensatory picks. The trade up with Trey really hurt this year due to no first round picks, and that was where the meat of the OLine draft was this year, according to the Draft Nerds. I think McKivitz is going to be a good player, but there is no real depth behind the 5 starters - and that can be changed with a good solid draft next year. 12 picks says they *should* devote some to the OLine next year - whether they will or not, remains to be seen.

P.S. The problem I see with free agent offensive line acquisitions is they are failing to take advantage of Foerster's ability to develop OLinemen. Why not devote some low round picks (say a some 7th rounders) and have Foerster develop them, keep them for 3+ years, before letting them go. Versus, signing these free agents and letting them go the next year and be back to square one depthwise every year.

Without a doubt we'll need to get some Oline next year.

I'm personally not sold on McKivitz and have never been impressed with his play. Even the game against the Rams when he filled in for Trent and was widely regarded as a good game, I thought he looked pretty terrible and needed a lot of help on his side. But I am hopeful he has developed since then to be as good as what we've had the last few years at RT. I also wished we had drafted a T in the 3rd round, but I also know jack s**t about college players, so have no idea whether a prospect at T was worth it there, or whether those prospects were better than Jaylon Moore is right now. It could simply be that, as mediocre as Moore has looked, those guys in the third didn't seem like they would have unseat him on the depth chart. So in that regard, I give the staff the benefit of the doubt wrgt the last draft.

So you have concerns he/it might not be good enough?

See, we're not so different.

Welcome to the OL thread circa 1995.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally sted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree that making the playoffs and making the Superbowl is better than not making it. I think eventually our *luck* will turn, and the breaks should go for us rather than against us. I still cite the fact that the 49ers have 20+ years of making the playoffs but only 5 super bowls to show for it.

We have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL for sure, and I think the problem both NC and I have is with the coaches is the draft capital that's been devoted to the Offensive Line. It looks like the 49ers would rather get free agents for the OLine than spending draft capital. The good is you save draft capital for the important DLine/DE position - which is important, but when the 49ers use draft capital for the offensive line, it's more mid to late rounds, with undrafted free agents rounding out depth.

I think now that we have a franchise QB, I think that mixture has to change - not a whole lot, but just a bit to deal with Trent's inevitable retirement and developing some depth behind the starters to protect the all-important franchise QB.

I understand your concern and also wish we had someone to bookend our line that wasn't a question mark, plus better depth. But you can't have every unit on the team filled with stars. The fact we have the best offensive linemen in the league coupled with a young and up and coming interior is a recipe for success there. You can't say our FO hasn't dedicated resources here.

Clearly the interior, which has been developed through the draft, becoming a strength was not something the armchair GMs like NC could see coming. Last year at this time NC was constantly ragging on our brain trust for rolling out with Banks, Brendel, and Burford. And guess what, these dudes brought it. They weren't top tier, but they're young and will only get better this year. So the FO must be confident they can develop players, and you know what? I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are the professionals working day in day out with these guys. NC is not.

Yes, because this FO never makes mistakes or has blind spots to team building. LOL.

Year 4, year 5, year 6, etc.

Have I been wrong?

Also, look through the board. There's just as much "complaining" about the QB, wasted draft picks, cap space, ER2, secondary, health, practice style, etc.

These are just discussions on how fans believe we can win #6.

And many times, fans are right in the end. Many times they're wrong.

Let's see what happens in year 7 and hope the FO got it right this time because we all want the same thing.

I never claimed they were infallible. Retrospectively, we can easily point to each mistake this FO, and every FO for that matter, has made. There's no FO that is without mistakes. The problem lies in where their mistakes are given more weight than their successes. Obviously, we have one of the strongest teams in the league, therefore the sum total of the mistakes and successes would heavily favor the successes. It's really simple accounting. So when I see fans wax woetic about every single mistake, it's just rings hollow when we're a championship caliber roster.

And yes, you've been wrong plenty. Are you kidding? Everyone is wrong to some degree in their prognostications.

This board doesn't just exist to serve people whining about things. There's plenty of ways we can both be critical and supportive without being armchair GMs who whine about things in retrospect when we do win it all every year. I just don't get why folks can't have patience when things are clearly going well. Like, prematurely crying about our offensive line didn't look so hot last year, did it? So maybe we should also wait and see this year. This doesn't mean that I am stoked about who we are running out there with regarding our RT and general depth, but s**t man, there's so much context here. Maybe our brain trust didn't like the guys in the third that were armchair GM favorites. Maybe our FO liked guys that they feel they can develop and have an inside track in improving. After seeing Banks excel last year after this board, almost unilaterally, panned the pick and the player, I think we should take a step back and reserve judgement on our failure as an organization.

+ Show all quotes
We're in the OL thread. Have I been wrong in the end on 'this' topic?

I also never said anything negative about the 3 B's...in fact, I was one of the first fans of Brendel. I voiced concerns like everyone but reserved judgement until we knew more mid season. Same concept this year with McKivitz.

No one has ever accused me of having a good memory, but I seem to recall you being really critical that we did not address the interior of our Oline the entire offseason last year. So, unless my memory is failing me (and it's certainly possible), then yes, you've been wrong.

All good.

Do you think this OL in year 7 is strong enough for Brock, Kyle, etc. to get us 6, finally?

If our team is healthy, I think we're good enough to win this year, for sure.

I think our Oline is good enough, but there are some question marks for sure. Does Burford make the next step in his improvement. Is McKivitz serviceable.

Then there's Brock, can he continue to play like a top 5 QB, or is there regression.

Don't you think we're championship caliber should we remain relatively healthy and Brock plays as good as he did last season, even if our oline is a tier 2 or whatever you define as less than the best?

Originally posted by NCommand:
So you have concerns he/it might not be good enough?

See, we're not so different.

Welcome to the OL thread circa 1995.

Don't confuse my disdain for armchair GMing with a blind spot for areas of concern. I just tend to give the FO the benefit of the doubt since we have a championship caliber roster. But every roster, even the best teams have positions of concern. It's impossible in the salary cap era not to.

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally sted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree that making the playoffs and making the Superbowl is better than not making it. I think eventually our *luck* will turn, and the breaks should go for us rather than against us. I still cite the fact that the 49ers have 20+ years of making the playoffs but only 5 super bowls to show for it.

We have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL for sure, and I think the problem both NC and I have is with the coaches is the draft capital that's been devoted to the Offensive Line. It looks like the 49ers would rather get free agents for the OLine than spending draft capital. The good is you save draft capital for the important DLine/DE position - which is important, but when the 49ers use draft capital for the offensive line, it's more mid to late rounds, with undrafted free agents rounding out depth.

I think now that we have a franchise QB, I think that mixture has to change - not a whole lot, but just a bit to deal with Trent's inevitable retirement and developing some depth behind the starters to protect the all-important franchise QB.

I understand your concern and also wish we had someone to bookend our line that wasn't a question mark, plus better depth. But you can't have every unit on the team filled with stars. The fact we have the best offensive linemen in the league coupled with a young and up and coming interior is a recipe for success there. You can't say our FO hasn't dedicated resources here.

Clearly the interior, which has been developed through the draft, becoming a strength was not something the armchair GMs like NC could see coming. Last year at this time NC was constantly ragging on our brain trust for rolling out with Banks, Brendel, and Burford. And guess what, these dudes brought it. They weren't top tier, but they're young and will only get better this year. So the FO must be confident they can develop players, and you know what? I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are the professionals working day in day out with these guys. NC is not.

Yes, because this FO never makes mistakes or has blind spots to team building. LOL.

Year 4, year 5, year 6, etc.

Have I been wrong?

Also, look through the board. There's just as much "complaining" about the QB, wasted draft picks, cap space, ER2, secondary, health, practice style, etc.

These are just discussions on how fans believe we can win #6.

And many times, fans are right in the end. Many times they're wrong.

Let's see what happens in year 7 and hope the FO got it right this time because we all want the same thing.

I never claimed they were infallible. Retrospectively, we can easily point to each mistake this FO, and every FO for that matter, has made. There's no FO that is without mistakes. The problem lies in where their mistakes are given more weight than their successes. Obviously, we have one of the strongest teams in the league, therefore the sum total of the mistakes and successes would heavily favor the successes. It's really simple accounting. So when I see fans wax woetic about every single mistake, it's just rings hollow when we're a championship caliber roster.

And yes, you've been wrong plenty. Are you kidding? Everyone is wrong to some degree in their prognostications.

This board doesn't just exist to serve people whining about things. There's plenty of ways we can both be critical and supportive without being armchair GMs who whine about things in retrospect when we do win it all every year. I just don't get why folks can't have patience when things are clearly going well. Like, prematurely crying about our offensive line didn't look so hot last year, did it? So maybe we should also wait and see this year. This doesn't mean that I am stoked about who we are running out there with regarding our RT and general depth, but s**t man, there's so much context here. Maybe our brain trust didn't like the guys in the third that were armchair GM favorites. Maybe our FO liked guys that they feel they can develop and have an inside track in improving. After seeing Banks excel last year after this board, almost unilaterally, panned the pick and the player, I think we should take a step back and reserve judgement on our failure as an organization.

We're in the OL thread. Have I been wrong in the end on 'this' topic?

I also never said anything negative about the 3 B's...in fact, I was one of the first fans of Brendel. I voiced concerns like everyone but reserved judgement until we knew more mid season. Same concept this year with McKivitz.

+ Show all quotes
No one has ever accused me of having a good memory, but I seem to recall you being really critical that we did not address the interior of our Oline the entire offseason last year. So, unless my memory is failing me (and it's certainly possible), then yes, you've been wrong.

All good.

Do you think this OL in year 7 is strong enough for Brock, Kyle, etc. to get us 6, finally?

If our team is healthy, I think we're good enough to win this year, for sure.

I think our Oline is good enough, but there are some question marks for sure. Does Burford make the next step in his improvement. Is McKivitz serviceable.

Then there's Brock, can he continue to play like a top 5 QB, or is there regression.

Don't you think we're championship caliber should we remain relatively healthy and Brock plays as good as he did last season, even if our oline is a tier 2 or whatever you define as less than the best?

That's fair. And the OL could become a tier 1 unit too. Let's see.

The issue with the boys above is that when it clearly wasn't good enough, when they thought it was too, they couldn't come back in here and admit it.

Hopefully that'll be moot for you or if that proves true, you'll be man enough to admit it.

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So you have concerns he/it might not be good enough?

See, we're not so different.

Welcome to the OL thread circa 1995.

Don't confuse my disdain for armchair GMing with a blind spot for areas of concern. I just tend to give the FO the benefit of the doubt since we have a championship caliber roster. But every roster, even the best teams have positions of concern. It's impossible in the salary cap era not to.

Exactly. It took quite a few years but most fans, even yourself, can see the OL is and has been one of those concern areas.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So you have concerns he/it might not be good enough?

See, we're not so different.

Welcome to the OL thread circa 1995.

Don't confuse my disdain for armchair GMing with a blind spot for areas of concern. I just tend to give the FO the benefit of the doubt since we have a championship caliber roster. But every roster, even the best teams have positions of concern. It's impossible in the salary cap era not to.

Exactly. It took quite a few years but most fans, even yourself, can see the OL is and has been one of those concern areas.

Offensive line isn't a position. RT is a position of concern since it's an unknown. Last year LG, C, RG were positions of concern because each projected starter was an unknown (to the fans), but it turned out the staff had a better view of those players than the fans. I don't know why this feels like you're trying to have a "gotcha" moment, but if admitting that we're not a perfect team at ever position is what you're arguing against, then count me out of that argument because I've never, nor would I have ever, made it.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally sted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree that making the playoffs and making the Superbowl is better than not making it. I think eventually our *luck* will turn, and the breaks should go for us rather than against us. I still cite the fact that the 49ers have 20+ years of making the playoffs but only 5 super bowls to show for it.

We have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL for sure, and I think the problem both NC and I have is with the coaches is the draft capital that's been devoted to the Offensive Line. It looks like the 49ers would rather get free agents for the OLine than spending draft capital. The good is you save draft capital for the important DLine/DE position - which is important, but when the 49ers use draft capital for the offensive line, it's more mid to late rounds, with undrafted free agents rounding out depth.

I think now that we have a franchise QB, I think that mixture has to change - not a whole lot, but just a bit to deal with Trent's inevitable retirement and developing some depth behind the starters to protect the all-important franchise QB.

I understand your concern and also wish we had someone to bookend our line that wasn't a question mark, plus better depth. But you can't have every unit on the team filled with stars. The fact we have the best offensive linemen in the league coupled with a young and up and coming interior is a recipe for success there. You can't say our FO hasn't dedicated resources here.

Clearly the interior, which has been developed through the draft, becoming a strength was not something the armchair GMs like NC could see coming. Last year at this time NC was constantly ragging on our brain trust for rolling out with Banks, Brendel, and Burford. And guess what, these dudes brought it. They weren't top tier, but they're young and will only get better this year. So the FO must be confident they can develop players, and you know what? I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are the professionals working day in day out with these guys. NC is not.

Yes, because this FO never makes mistakes or has blind spots to team building. LOL.

Year 4, year 5, year 6, etc.

Have I been wrong?

Also, look through the board. There's just as much "complaining" about the QB, wasted draft picks, cap space, ER2, secondary, health, practice style, etc.

These are just discussions on how fans believe we can win #6.

And many times, fans are right in the end. Many times they're wrong.

Let's see what happens in year 7 and hope the FO got it right this time because we all want the same thing.

I never claimed they were infallible. Retrospectively, we can easily point to each mistake this FO, and every FO for that matter, has made. There's no FO that is without mistakes. The problem lies in where their mistakes are given more weight than their successes. Obviously, we have one of the strongest teams in the league, therefore the sum total of the mistakes and successes would heavily favor the successes. It's really simple accounting. So when I see fans wax woetic about every single mistake, it's just rings hollow when we're a championship caliber roster.

And yes, you've been wrong plenty. Are you kidding? Everyone is wrong to some degree in their prognostications.

This board doesn't just exist to serve people whining about things. There's plenty of ways we can both be critical and supportive without being armchair GMs who whine about things in retrospect when we do win it all every year. I just don't get why folks can't have patience when things are clearly going well. Like, prematurely crying about our offensive line didn't look so hot last year, did it? So maybe we should also wait and see this year. This doesn't mean that I am stoked about who we are running out there with regarding our RT and general depth, but s**t man, there's so much context here. Maybe our brain trust didn't like the guys in the third that were armchair GM favorites. Maybe our FO liked guys that they feel they can develop and have an inside track in improving. After seeing Banks excel last year after this board, almost unilaterally, panned the pick and the player, I think we should take a step back and reserve judgement on our failure as an organization.

We're in the OL thread. Have I been wrong in the end on 'this' topic?

I also never said anything negative about the 3 B's...in fact, I was one of the first fans of Brendel. I voiced concerns like everyone but reserved judgement until we knew more mid season. Same concept this year with McKivitz.

No one has ever accused me of having a good memory, but I seem to recall you being really critical that we did not address the interior of our Oline the entire offseason last year. So, unless my memory is failing me (and it's certainly possible), then yes, you've been wrong.

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All good.

Do you think this OL in year 7 is strong enough for Brock, Kyle, etc. to get us 6, finally?

If our team is healthy, I think we're good enough to win this year, for sure.

I think our Oline is good enough, but there are some question marks for sure. Does Burford make the next step in his improvement. Is McKivitz serviceable.

Then there's Brock, can he continue to play like a top 5 QB, or is there regression.

Don't you think we're championship caliber should we remain relatively healthy and Brock plays as good as he did last season, even if our oline is a tier 2 or whatever you define as less than the best?

That's fair. And the OL could become a tier 1 unit too. Let's see.

The issue with the boys above is that when it clearly wasn't good enough, when they thought it was too, they couldn't come back in here and admit it.

Hopefully that'll be moot for you or if that proves true, you'll be man enough to admit it.

Lol keep making stuff up. You know damn well what the discussion was and you are being disingenuous per usual

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So you have concerns he/it might not be good enough?

See, we're not so different.

Welcome to the OL thread circa 1995.

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Don't confuse my disdain for armchair GMing with a blind spot for areas of concern. I just tend to give the FO the benefit of the doubt since we have a championship caliber roster. But every roster, even the best teams have positions of concern. It's impossible in the salary cap era not to.

Exactly. It took quite a few years but most fans, even yourself, can see the OL is and has been one of those concern areas.

Offensive line isn't a position. RT is a position of concern since it's an unknown. Last year LG, C, RG were positions of concern because each projected starter was an unknown (to the fans), but it turned out the staff had a better view of those players than the fans. I don't know why this feels like you're trying to have a "gotcha" moment, but if admitting that we're not a perfect team at ever position is what you're arguing against, then count me out of that argument because I've never, nor would I have ever, made it.

It was never about being a perfect team. It was treating the OL with similar vigor they use on the DL so that a 49er QB could have the best shot at winning us a Championship (and life would be made easier on Kyle too). Some coaches clearly try to achieve that with their QB and others feel they can go skinnier there and scheme around it and overcome it in other aspects. Our approach at best, has gotten us the bridesmaid treatment. The ones who have gone the former route have won Superbowls.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So you have concerns he/it might not be good enough?

See, we're not so different.

Welcome to the OL thread circa 1995.

Don't confuse my disdain for armchair GMing with a blind spot for areas of concern. I just tend to give the FO the benefit of the doubt since we have a championship caliber roster. But every roster, even the best teams have positions of concern. It's impossible in the salary cap era not to.

+ Show all quotes
Exactly. It took quite a few years but most fans, even yourself, can see the OL is and has been one of those concern areas.

Offensive line isn't a position. RT is a position of concern since it's an unknown. Last year LG, C, RG were positions of concern because each projected starter was an unknown (to the fans), but it turned out the staff had a better view of those players than the fans. I don't know why this feels like you're trying to have a "gotcha" moment, but if admitting that we're not a perfect team at ever position is what you're arguing against, then count me out of that argument because I've never, nor would I have ever, made it.

It was never about being a perfect team. It was treating the OL with similar vigor they use on the DL so that a 49er QB could have the best shot at winning us a Championship (and life would be made easier on Kyle too). Some coaches clearly try to achieve that with their QB and others feel they can go skinnier there and scheme around it and overcome it in other aspects. Our approach at best, has gotten us the bridesmaid treatment. The ones who have gone the former route have won Superbowls.

Maybe there are just a lot fewer players who fit what Kyle needs/wants out of his O linemen, so rather than bringing in guys who can't do what he wants he's forced to make due with what he can get? There's an obvious shortage of quality O linemen leaguewide and the vast majority are of the big, road grading type with less athleticism than what Kyle typically looks for, so it makes sense that there just aren't enough. Add to that all of the other teams running Kyle's system, and the pool becomes even shallower.

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So you have concerns he/it might not be good enough?

See, we're not so different.

Welcome to the OL thread circa 1995.

Don't confuse my disdain for armchair GMing with a blind spot for areas of concern. I just tend to give the FO the benefit of the doubt since we have a championship caliber roster. But every roster, even the best teams have positions of concern. It's impossible in the salary cap era not to.

Exactly. It took quite a few years but most fans, even yourself, can see the OL is and has been one of those concern areas.

+ Show all quotes
Offensive line isn't a position. RT is a position of concern since it's an unknown. Last year LG, C, RG were positions of concern because each projected starter was an unknown (to the fans), but it turned out the staff had a better view of those players than the fans. I don't know why this feels like you're trying to have a "gotcha" moment, but if admitting that we're not a perfect team at ever position is what you're arguing against, then count me out of that argument because I've never, nor would I have ever, made it.

It was never about being a perfect team. It was treating the OL with similar vigor they use on the DL so that a 49er QB could have the best shot at winning us a Championship (and life would be made easier on Kyle too). Some coaches clearly try to achieve that with their QB and others feel they can go skinnier there and scheme around it and overcome it in other aspects. Our approach at best, has gotten us the bridesmaid treatment. The ones who have gone the former route have won Superbowls.

Maybe there are just a lot fewer players who fit what Kyle needs/wants out of his O linemen, so rather than bringing in guys who can't do what he wants he's forced to make due with what he can get? There's an obvious shortage of quality O linemen leaguewide and the vast majority are of the big, road grading type with less athleticism than what Kyle typically looks for, so it makes sense that there just aren't enough. Add to that all of the other teams running Kyle's system, and the pool becomes even shallower.

Those are really good points. I got some insight into that in a recent Foerster interview where he was talking about how intricate the system is. His system. Hence why he felt Brendel was ready after following him for so many years. Also, MM talking about how the G position is the 2nd most demanding on the team next to the QB. We already know how much is on the C in this offense. And what's asked of the T's esp. in the run blocking game. Yeah, branching out dumbs down the pool as well. Good stuff.