49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm trying to understand what PM can and can not transcend.

He can't transcend the Lions defense
He can't transcend a non-tier 1 OL
He can't transcend a WR dropping a pass
He cant transcend a pick-6
He can't transcend 1 point

Man, I'm starting to think the only thing PM can transcend is turning 49er fans into closet Chiefs fans.

Some of us like great qb play. We can tell what it is even when OL play isn't great

Others would rather have average play and continually blame the OL for the average play.

You can have Mahomes-envy all you like. Every fan wants a HOF QB.

And you can still appreciate great QB while still recognizing he can't transcend everything. Clearly.

And you can still want a tier 1 OL so that that QB HERE has the best chance to play at that level for his career.

I've never seen so many fans NOT want that in here.

Dude just take a break from posting for a while. What a stupid comment. You really just don't get it.

LMAO. The dude who had to change his name to a lost bet and who's still picking fights in the Jimmy Garoppolo thread is trying to police the OL thread. Cute.

I'm sure ShanaLynch would love a tier 1 OL but nobody in their right mind believes they are actually trying to achieve that with the resources they've invested (and not).

If you stood for any of your claims here, we wouldn't be able to trace back to your original name

everyone would love to have #1 overall OL, but there is a reality to actually accomplishing that, we definitely wouldn't have nearly the team we have now if we tried

top 5 OL as of now, with a chance to be #1 by years end

Haha.

We could have had better. Think of how much we've wasted on the defense....Witherspoon, Kinlaw, Foster, Moore, etc. on and on.

I love the ranking. Is that PFF?

Let's hope either way, they move up a rank or tier.

Then our boys Brock, CMC and Kyle will be able to do whatever the hell they want.

"We're the 49ers. We can do whatever we want." ~ Jim Harbaugh

"could have had".. is not facts. but With With, kin, fost, moor and etc we still are one of the best teams

The ranking is what we finished at from last season in most of the end of season articles.. what was it #4

My observations about how this OL will be top hold true Pg 1746, post 26181 back in June 2022

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by bassmanr:
I'm wth ya brother.. if Purdy gets hurt or any QB gets hurt, everyone wants a better line, then its too late. If we do make a trade I want o line help. We also may have issues in the secondary as well, Ward will be missed.

I think 50% to 75% of what we call good line play is QB and System. At least half of it is on the QB and system.

I think the Colt's line went from near last to one of the best mostly on Manning's ability to beat the blitz.

If you remember back to the 49ers of the 90s... Shanny 1.0 came on board and won a SB, but that was one of our poorest stretches of protection in that ERA.

I think at least some of that is creating the passing lane for RBs and WRs working the hash area of the field never left the system, but cut blocks did. I also think some timing offense just hazard the QB more.

Auburn went though the same issues when Al Borges came on board to run his version of the WCO. That was a heavy run version with Cadi Williams, Ronnie Brown and Brandon Jacobs. The passing attack was pure timing, just like Walsh and Shanny some routs are more about getting RAC blockers into the right spots then being targets in the passing tree. Jason Campbell was coached to hold the ball an extra tick if it set up RAC. The whole idea being keep the pressure on the defense, but give your quick passing game a chance to get chunk yardage. Campbell got blamed a lot for holding onto the ball, probably some was him...but no doubt some was Al Borges.

To come full circle with this, I think Purdy wants to hold that ball for deeper chunk plays...so it will be interesting to see how Shanny manages that to protect his QB. It is a legit fear, and might be a legit criticism of Shanny. I say that as a total shanny 2.0 fan. Love that dude....but he has to get his QB to the playoffs in once piece.

I think that is my point about the OLine. Keeping the franchise QB healthy for the entire 20+ game season. Kyle hasn't had a great history of keeping his QBs upright. Mullens has the same injury as Purdy. Jimmy and Trey have been out significant periods of time. I think its partly because he hasn't invested in the OLine significantly.

Having said that, I don't think Kyle's draft priorities have to be drastically changed. I still like them drafting high those DEs and DTs, but let's put the OLine at a bit higher priority from here on in, specially if Purdy really is a generational talent. On top of that they have a ton of compensatory picks, there should be no excuse in *not drafting an offensive lineman* in the next two drafts where they have significant compensatory draft capital comming in due to Demeco and Ran Carthon.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by bassmanr:
I'm wth ya brother.. if Purdy gets hurt or any QB gets hurt, everyone wants a better line, then its too late. If we do make a trade I want o line help. We also may have issues in the secondary as well, Ward will be missed.

I think 50% to 75% of what we call good line play is QB and System. At least half of it is on the QB and system.

I think the Colt's line went from near last to one of the best mostly on Manning's ability to beat the blitz.

If you remember back to the 49ers of the 90s... Shanny 1.0 came on board and won a SB, but that was one of our poorest stretches of protection in that ERA.

I think at least some of that is creating the passing lane for RBs and WRs working the hash area of the field never left the system, but cut blocks did. I also think some timing offense just hazard the QB more.

Auburn went though the same issues when Al Borges came on board to run his version of the WCO. That was a heavy run version with Cadi Williams, Ronnie Brown and Brandon Jacobs. The passing attack was pure timing, just like Walsh and Shanny some routs are more about getting RAC blockers into the right spots then being targets in the passing tree. Jason Campbell was coached to hold the ball an extra tick if it set up RAC. The whole idea being keep the pressure on the defense, but give your quick passing game a chance to get chunk yardage. Campbell got blamed a lot for holding onto the ball, probably some was him...but no doubt some was Al Borges.

To come full circle with this, I think Purdy wants to hold that ball for deeper chunk plays...so it will be interesting to see how Shanny manages that to protect his QB. It is a legit fear, and might be a legit criticism of Shanny. I say that as a total shanny 2.0 fan. Love that dude....but he has to get his QB to the playoffs in once piece.

I think that is my point about the OLine. Keeping the franchise QB healthy for the entire 20+ game season. Kyle hasn't had a great history of keeping his QBs upright. Mullens has the same injury as Purdy. Jimmy and Trey have been out significant periods of time. I think its partly because he hasn't invested in the OLine significantly.

Having said that, I don't think Kyle's draft priorities have to be drastically changed. I still like them drafting high those DEs and DTs, but let's put the OLine at a bit higher priority from here on in, specially if Purdy really is a generational talent. On top of that they have a ton of compensatory picks, there should be no excuse in *not drafting an offensive lineman* in the next two drafts where they have significant compensatory draft capital comming in due to Demeco and Ran Carthon.

having a top OL with first round draft picks across the board wouldn't have prevented those injuries

Big test tomorrow

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LMAO. Over a QB in the same tier of talent?

Come on, man.

The entire POINT of wanting a tier 1 OL is FOR the QB.

I wanted it for Jimmy. I wanted it for Trey. And I want it now for Brock.

Everything is a tier now. Convenient.

Yes I absolutely think you'd pass on Caleb for an OL. Zero doubt whatsoever in my mind.

lol yes....now that his favorite non-tier-1 QB is gone. Great timing,...haha.

Originally posted by random49er:
lol yes....now that his favorite non-tier-1 QB is gone. Great timing,...haha.

Can't win sbs with tier 2 OL but tier 2 qbs are just right

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by random49er:
lol yes....now that his favorite non-tier-1 QB is gone. Great timing,...haha.

Can't win sbs with tier 2 OL but tier 2 qbs are just right

Not those either unless everything else is tier 1...like a historic defense or that tier 2 QB goes on a tier 1 run at the right time (Flacco).

Originally posted by lamontb:
Big test tomorrow

Great test. Let's see this top 5 OL (All) and see how far they've grown.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Big test tomorrow

Great test. Let's see this top 5 OL in 2022 (All) and see how far they've grown.

FTFY

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by bassmanr:
I'm wth ya brother.. if Purdy gets hurt or any QB gets hurt, everyone wants a better line, then its too late. If we do make a trade I want o line help. We also may have issues in the secondary as well, Ward will be missed.

I think 50% to 75% of what we call good line play is QB and System. At least half of it is on the QB and system.

I think the Colt's line went from near last to one of the best mostly on Manning's ability to beat the blitz.

If you remember back to the 49ers of the 90s... Shanny 1.0 came on board and won a SB, but that was one of our poorest stretches of protection in that ERA.

I think at least some of that is creating the passing lane for RBs and WRs working the hash area of the field never left the system, but cut blocks did. I also think some timing offense just hazard the QB more.

Auburn went though the same issues when Al Borges came on board to run his version of the WCO. That was a heavy run version with Cadi Williams, Ronnie Brown and Brandon Jacobs. The passing attack was pure timing, just like Walsh and Shanny some routs are more about getting RAC blockers into the right spots then being targets in the passing tree. Jason Campbell was coached to hold the ball an extra tick if it set up RAC. The whole idea being keep the pressure on the defense, but give your quick passing game a chance to get chunk yardage. Campbell got blamed a lot for holding onto the ball, probably some was him...but no doubt some was Al Borges.

To come full circle with this, I think Purdy wants to hold that ball for deeper chunk plays...so it will be interesting to see how Shanny manages that to protect his QB. It is a legit fear, and might be a legit criticism of Shanny. I say that as a total shanny 2.0 fan. Love that dude....but he has to get his QB to the playoffs in once piece.

I think that is my point about the OLine. Keeping the franchise QB healthy for the entire 20+ game season. Kyle hasn't had a great history of keeping his QBs upright. Mullens has the same injury as Purdy. Jimmy and Trey have been out significant periods of time. I think its partly because he hasn't invested in the OLine significantly.

Having said that, I don't think Kyle's draft priorities have to be drastically changed. I still like them drafting high those DEs and DTs, but let's put the OLine at a bit higher priority from here on in, specially if Purdy really is a generational talent. On top of that they have a ton of compensatory picks, there should be no excuse in *not drafting an offensive lineman* in the next two drafts where they have significant compensatory draft capital comming in due to Demeco and Ran Carthon.

Yes this is the point I was trying to make as well.... We need to keep our QBs healthy, I know all the injuries were not all o line but still need to give us more time to exercise our down field play calls. Seperates the defense and a good QB can enjoy more success. Would a Mahomes do better with a weaker o line, yes. Another Mahomes wont grow on trees so need to make sure Brock or whoever our QB is can stay up right.

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by bassmanr:
I'm wth ya brother.. if Purdy gets hurt or any QB gets hurt, everyone wants a better line, then its too late. If we do make a trade I want o line help. We also may have issues in the secondary as well, Ward will be missed.

I think 50% to 75% of what we call good line play is QB and System. At least half of it is on the QB and system.

I think the Colt's line went from near last to one of the best mostly on Manning's ability to beat the blitz.

If you remember back to the 49ers of the 90s... Shanny 1.0 came on board and won a SB, but that was one of our poorest stretches of protection in that ERA.

I think at least some of that is creating the passing lane for RBs and WRs working the hash area of the field never left the system, but cut blocks did. I also think some timing offense just hazard the QB more.

Auburn went though the same issues when Al Borges came on board to run his version of the WCO. That was a heavy run version with Cadi Williams, Ronnie Brown and Brandon Jacobs. The passing attack was pure timing, just like Walsh and Shanny some routs are more about getting RAC blockers into the right spots then being targets in the passing tree. Jason Campbell was coached to hold the ball an extra tick if it set up RAC. The whole idea being keep the pressure on the defense, but give your quick passing game a chance to get chunk yardage. Campbell got blamed a lot for holding onto the ball, probably some was him...but no doubt some was Al Borges.

To come full circle with this, I think Purdy wants to hold that ball for deeper chunk plays...so it will be interesting to see how Shanny manages that to protect his QB. It is a legit fear, and might be a legit criticism of Shanny. I say that as a total shanny 2.0 fan. Love that dude....but he has to get his QB to the playoffs in once piece.

I think that is my point about the OLine. Keeping the franchise QB healthy for the entire 20+ game season. Kyle hasn't had a great history of keeping his QBs upright. Mullens has the same injury as Purdy. Jimmy and Trey have been out significant periods of time. I think its partly because he hasn't invested in the OLine significantly.

Having said that, I don't think Kyle's draft priorities have to be drastically changed. I still like them drafting high those DEs and DTs, but let's put the OLine at a bit higher priority from here on in, specially if Purdy really is a generational talent. On top of that they have a ton of compensatory picks, there should be no excuse in *not drafting an offensive lineman* in the next two drafts where they have significant compensatory draft capital comming in due to Demeco and Ran Carthon.

Yes this is the point I was trying to make as well.... We need to keep our QBs healthy, I know all the injuries were not all o line but still need to give us more time to exercise our down field play calls. Seperates the defense and a good QB can enjoy more success. Would a Mahomes do better with a weaker o line, yes. Another Mahomes wont grow on trees so need to make sure Brock or whoever our QB is can stay up right.

we all want it. but like what i posted back in June 22 post #26181 Page 1746. it's a process and there is also cost to go with it. you have to balance it out

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm trying to understand what PM can and can not transcend.

He can't transcend the Lions defense
He can't transcend a non-tier 1 OL
He can't transcend a WR dropping a pass
He cant transcend a pick-6
He can't transcend 1 point

Man, I'm starting to think the only thing PM can transcend is turning 49er fans into closet Chiefs fans.

Some of us like great qb play. We can tell what it is even when OL play isn't great

Others would rather have average play and continually blame the OL for the average play.

You can have Mahomes-envy all you like. Every fan wants a HOF QB.

And you can still appreciate great QB while still recognizing he can't transcend everything. Clearly.

And you can still want a tier 1 OL so that that QB HERE has the best chance to play at that level for his career.

I've never seen so many fans NOT want that in here.

I'm wth ya brother.. if Purdy gets hurt or any QB gets hurt, everyone wants a better line, then its too late. If we do make a trade I want o line help. We also may have issues in the secondary as well, Ward will be missed.

Do quality O-line guys get traded mid season though? I can only remember in the offseason and even then, said lineman is due a big extension which is the opposite of what we need right now. We need guys that can outperform their contracts on rookie deals. I hope 3 of our first five picks next year our O-line. We are not only looking for a Trent Williams replacement but also depth and I don't see a longterm future for any of our backup tackles. And we can add IOL help to push Zakelj as well as give us another starting option because when this season is up, Aaron Banks is able to negotiate a new deal, with only 1 year left on his rookie contract.

I would do a trade if we have O line issues. I don't think we need an all pro just good or better than what we have on the right side.

Yes agree we need 3 of our first picks on the oline. I don't see anything with our backups who are going anywhere, basically below average backups.

Thats the thing. Why would any team trade better than what we have right now? Unless a big extension was due or there was some other problem. You won't find better than what we have during the season. We are going to have to develop these guys because they are in short supply.

Also, Burford is only a 2nd year player. McKivitz is finally going to be a long term starter. Have to let them have the chance to grow, but keep adding young talent that can push them. Its a great thing having so many picks so we can take multiple shots at it.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm trying to understand what PM can and can not transcend.

He can't transcend the Lions defense
He can't transcend a non-tier 1 OL
He can't transcend a WR dropping a pass
He cant transcend a pick-6
He can't transcend 1 point

Man, I'm starting to think the only thing PM can transcend is turning 49er fans into closet Chiefs fans.

Some of us like great qb play. We can tell what it is even when OL play isn't great

Others would rather have average play and continually blame the OL for the average play.

You can have Mahomes-envy all you like. Every fan wants a HOF QB.

And you can still appreciate great QB while still recognizing he can't transcend everything. Clearly.

And you can still want a tier 1 OL so that that QB HERE has the best chance to play at that level for his career.

I've never seen so many fans NOT want that in here.

I'm wth ya brother.. if Purdy gets hurt or any QB gets hurt, everyone wants a better line, then its too late. If we do make a trade I want o line help. We also may have issues in the secondary as well, Ward will be missed.

Do quality O-line guys get traded mid season though? I can only remember in the offseason and even then, said lineman is due a big extension which is the opposite of what we need right now. We need guys that can outperform their contracts on rookie deals. I hope 3 of our first five picks next year our O-line. We are not only looking for a Trent Williams replacement but also depth and I don't see a longterm future for any of our backup tackles. And we can add IOL help to push Zakelj as well as give us another starting option because when this season is up, Aaron Banks is able to negotiate a new deal, with only 1 year left on his rookie contract.

I would do a trade if we have O line issues. I don't think we need an all pro just good or better than what we have on the right side.

Yes agree we need 3 of our first picks on the oline. I don't see anything with our backups who are going anywhere, basically below average backups.

Thats the thing. Why would any team trade better than what we have right now? Unless a big extension was due or there was some other problem. You won't find better than what we have during the season. We are going to have to develop these guys because they are in short supply.

Also, Burford is only a 2nd year player. McKivitz is finally going to be a long term starter. Have to let them have the chance to grow, but keep adding young talent that can push them. Its a great thing having so many picks so we can take multiple shots at it.

Agree. It's a little too late if they wanted to upgrade talent now. It would have to be some odd trade like you noted.

Let's see how it goes this year and see if we need to update next year.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
we all want it. but like what i posted back in June 22 post #26181 Page 1746. it's a process and there is also cost to go with it. you have to balance it out

You've literally been fighting against it for 7 years. LOL

But glad you're on record now. And I totally agree with the balance. That's the center of the whole issue...the disproportionate resources to the DL.

As to your prediction, I already gave you props for that but there was no way you could have known. Nobody knew what we had then. But props nonetheless!

So let's "trust" the process this year and see how McKivitz and the boys do this year.

There's always next year, right?