49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's NCommands point about elite OLinemen. Does the OLine make the QB, or does the QB make the OLIne?

If Jimmy is the QB week 1 instead of Brock it's maybe a 13-7 win. Brock made plays when things weren't perfect. Thats how QBs make the O line look better.

Well, I'm not really talking about Jimmy, but if he had a good OLine, conceivably, if Yac's point is correct - Jimmy would have had no pressure - he'd have completed more passes in the super bowl instead of some of those key 3rd down passes being knocked down. AGain, Yac's point - give any *good* but not great QB time in the pocket and any generic *good* QB should be able to shred a matching *good* defense. At least, that's what I'm taking from Yac's point.

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's NCommands point about elite OLinemen. Does the OLine make the QB, or does the QB make the OLIne?

If Jimmy is the QB week 1 instead of Brock it's maybe a 13-7 win. Brock made plays when things weren't perfect. Thats how QBs make the O line look better.

But YacBro85 has a good point, give a good (but not great) QB time in the pocket, he can destroy any pass defense.

So by Yac's point, if Jimmy had a good OLine in the 2019 super bowl, he'd be the winner in that game, or so it seems if you go by Yac's logic.

We had an overall better team than the Chiefs. Difference was QB play. At one point that mfer has to step up. Can't have an all pro roster at every damn position. Eli was winning SBs with David Tyree and Brady with a converted CB to WR and a white midget. Go earn your 100+ mil contract

Well, I'm just isolating the QB and the OLine. Does the OLine make the QB or does the QB make the OLine? I think the majority here says that the QB makes the OLine, but Yac brings up a good point about giving a good (but not great) QB time in the pocket and he'd be - looking *like* a great QB. LIke Kenny picket looked terrible facing the 49er D Line, but his comments about just facing a 2nd string DLine in preseason (assuming he was playing with his first string OLinemen) he really looked unbeatable in pre-season. Or so says the disappointed Steeler fans.

If there is a position I'd want an all pro at, on the Offensive Line squad, it would be the Left and Right tackles. Definitely for sure, the Blindside Tackle, Just saying.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Dr_Bill_Walsh:
I want Wirfs or Tunsil by the trade deadline

This seems to be the play if either team is tanking. Take a half season rental

Maybe but it sure as heck won't be for Wirfs or Tunsil lol. Teams never, ever trade blockbuster OL midseason. Ever.

Originally posted by SLCNiner:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's NCommands point about elite OLinemen. Does the OLine make the QB, or does the QB make the OLIne?

If Jimmy is the QB week 1 instead of Brock it's maybe a 13-7 win. Brock made plays when things weren't perfect. Thats how QBs make the O line look better.

But YacBro85 has a good point, give a good (but not great) QB time in the pocket, he can destroy any pass defense.

So by Yac's point, if Jimmy had a good OLine in the 2019 super bowl, he'd be the winner in that game, or so it seems if you go by Yac's logic.

We had an overall better team than the Chiefs. Difference was QB play. At one point that mfer has to step up. Can't have an all pro roster at every damn position. Eli was winning SBs with David Tyree and Brady with a converted CB to WR and a white midget. Go earn your 100+ mil contract

I'd say that secondary play was arguably as responsible for the loss as QB play. The plays that cost the game IMO were Jimmy's miss to Sanders, the blown 3rd and 15 play and the dropped int.

We hear it from ShanaLYnch all the time, that's why they prioritize the DLine. They always say the DLine makes the DB's job easier. Conversely, then, if the OLine negates the DLine, then the DB's should have a tougher job. i.e. more passing success. I happen to agree with Yac, give a good (but not great) QB a consistent 3 seconds in the pocket, and that QB will shred most, if not all, pass defenses in the NFL.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Expect a heavy dose of the run game and alot of 3 step drops in the passing game week 5. We need to put a bruiser in there like Mason to try and wear those pass rushers down.

They can be run on. Need to execute.

Yup...run, minimal mistakes, force Dallas into a mistake. I don't expect them to have any inside run game and there should be lots of pressure up the middle as well.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Based on last week's performance I think KS will get McK some help this week.

His whole mindset was he wished he called different and quicker play calls and protected him more.

How about just getting a better RT?

If we only isolate for 2023, you know there was a run. Now its evident they WILL overdraft- see Cam Latu and Jake Moody. I can't advocate overdrafting for any position, especially with less O-line guys being pro ready. If any of thev4th or 5th round rookies on other teams outperform McKivitz, bad move by our FO.

I didn't like the decision to completely ignore the position in the draft and even wonder what if Dan Brunskill had been given a chance to compete for that starter job, but I put that part on Foerster.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Give Brock Purdy time to throw (say 4 seconds in the pocket) and he'll be unstoppable.

Just watching Johnny Del's breakdown and JTO's breakdown of how Purdy can see the field so well, give Purdy 4 seconds and 9 times out of ten he'll be completing mid range passes on defenses all day. Add in a good strong run game with a good OLine that doesn't even have to be average at run blocking - as long as they are above average to elite at pass blocking - and man you can see how hard this offense will be to stop with all the receiving talent they have. Brock's ability to see and read the defense is so elite.

Give any QB in the NFL 4 seconds in the pocket consistently and they should be unstoppable. If not, they don't belong in the league.

That's NCommands point about elite OLinemen. Does the OLine make the QB, or does the QB make the OLIne?

My point was that expecting an o line to hold up 4 seconds in pass pro consistently is not realistic. In most cases, a QB needs to buy time in the pocket after 3 seconds.

That's fine. I happen to think that the OLine is really a big part of the QB's success. We've seen backup QB's *win* in the super bowl, and then the next year, these backups are on another team. Possibly a big part of the success of these NON-elite backup QB's is because of the Quality of the OLine they play behind.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's NCommands point about elite OLinemen. Does the OLine make the QB, or does the QB make the OLIne?

If Jimmy is the QB week 1 instead of Brock it's maybe a 13-7 win. Brock made plays when things weren't perfect. Thats how QBs make the O line look better.

Well, I'm not really talking about Jimmy, but if he had a good OLine, conceivably, if Yac's point is correct - Jimmy would have had no pressure - he'd have completed more passes in the super bowl instead of some of those key 3rd down passes being knocked down. AGain, Yac's point - give any *good* but not great QB time in the pocket and any generic *good* QB should be able to shred a matching *good* defense. At least, that's what I'm taking from Yac's point.

there isn't an OL thats going to be even close to being perfect

if a QB can only perform when there is no pressure from the pass rush, for sure that QB is not going to last in the playoffs/SB.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Give Brock Purdy time to throw (say 4 seconds in the pocket) and he'll be unstoppable.

Just watching Johnny Del's breakdown and JTO's breakdown of how Purdy can see the field so well, give Purdy 4 seconds and 9 times out of ten he'll be completing mid range passes on defenses all day. Add in a good strong run game with a good OLine that doesn't even have to be average at run blocking - as long as they are above average to elite at pass blocking - and man you can see how hard this offense will be to stop with all the receiving talent they have. Brock's ability to see and read the defense is so elite.

Give any QB in the NFL 4 seconds in the pocket consistently and they should be unstoppable. If not, they don't belong in the league.

That's NCommands point about elite OLinemen. Does the OLine make the QB, or does the QB make the OLIne?

My point was that expecting an o line to hold up 4 seconds in pass pro consistently is not realistic. In most cases, a QB needs to buy time in the pocket after 3 seconds.

That's fine. I happen to think that the OLine is really a big part of the QB's success. We've seen backup QB's *win* in the super bowl, and then the next year, these backups are on another team. Possibly a big part of the success of these NON-elite backup QB's is because of the Quality of the OLine they play behind.

OL does help with success, but that OL doesn't need to be the best on paper

Originally posted by Fanaticofnfl:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Dr_Bill_Walsh:
I want Wirfs or Tunsil by the trade deadline

This seems to be the play if either team is tanking. Take a half season rental

Maybe but it sure as heck won't be for Wirfs or Tunsil lol. Teams never, ever trade blockbuster OL midseason. Ever.

Not sure a team has ever been as loaded as SF is with such a singular glaring weakness. I can see trying to trade a first for a one year Wirfs rental as the ultimate 'all in' move. (I'm sure the Bucs say no).

Originally posted by A-R-S:
Not sure a team has ever been as loaded as SF is with such a singular glaring weakness. I can see trying to trade a first for a one year Wirfs rental as the ultimate 'all in' move. (I'm sure the Bucs say no).

Lenoir is every bit as glaring a weakness unfortunately.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by A-R-S:
Not sure a team has ever been as loaded as SF is with such a singular glaring weakness. I can see trying to trade a first for a one year Wirfs rental as the ultimate 'all in' move. (I'm sure the Bucs say no).

Lenoir is every bit as glaring a weakness unfortunately.

All teams have weaknesses. Even KC & PHI have weaknesses.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's NCommands point about elite OLinemen. Does the OLine make the QB, or does the QB make the OLIne?

If Jimmy is the QB week 1 instead of Brock it's maybe a 13-7 win. Brock made plays when things weren't perfect. Thats how QBs make the O line look better.

Well, I'm not really talking about Jimmy, but if he had a good OLine, conceivably, if Yac's point is correct - Jimmy would have had no pressure - he'd have completed more passes in the super bowl instead of some of those key 3rd down passes being knocked down. AGain, Yac's point - give any *good* but not great QB time in the pocket and any generic *good* QB should be able to shred a matching *good* defense. At least, that's what I'm taking from Yac's point.

there isn't an OL thats going to be even close to being perfect

if a QB can only perform when there is no pressure from the pass rush, for sure that QB is not going to last in the playoffs/SB.

Well, I was watching Pat Mahomes (week 1 highlights against - I think - the Titans) with his new OT's and he really looked average in that game. So you can have Joe Montana, but take away the talent that surrounds him - and what do you have? You have 1982 all over again.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Give Brock Purdy time to throw (say 4 seconds in the pocket) and he'll be unstoppable.

Just watching Johnny Del's breakdown and JTO's breakdown of how Purdy can see the field so well, give Purdy 4 seconds and 9 times out of ten he'll be completing mid range passes on defenses all day. Add in a good strong run game with a good OLine that doesn't even have to be average at run blocking - as long as they are above average to elite at pass blocking - and man you can see how hard this offense will be to stop with all the receiving talent they have. Brock's ability to see and read the defense is so elite.

Give any QB in the NFL 4 seconds in the pocket consistently and they should be unstoppable. If not, they don't belong in the league.

That's NCommands point about elite OLinemen. Does the OLine make the QB, or does the QB make the OLIne?

My point was that expecting an o line to hold up 4 seconds in pass pro consistently is not realistic. In most cases, a QB needs to buy time in the pocket after 3 seconds.

That's fine. I happen to think that the OLine is really a big part of the QB's success. We've seen backup QB's *win* in the super bowl, and then the next year, these backups are on another team. Possibly a big part of the success of these NON-elite backup QB's is because of the Quality of the OLine they play behind.

OL does help with success, but that OL doesn't need to be the best on paper

Agree, the OLine personnel doesn't have to be the best. Where I think you want to have elite Offensive line players is at the offensive tackle positions. One reason is it's a passing league. You can have good interior linemen, hopefully an above average Center (in a Kyle Shanahan system - that's a must). Center has to be very good from a mental point of view - not necessarily physically dominant like a hall of fame Mike Webster. But where you need above average OLinemen is at left guard (Purdy's blind side guard). You need an outstanding Left tackle (thank god we got Trent Williams). Where you can have an average guy, is at right guard - the QB's peripheral vision, if he's right handed, helps to avoid the pass rush. But that Right Tackel, I think in this day and age of the NFL's pass happy rules, you can't have an average right tackle, like Kyle had - for too long of a time - in McGlinchy anymore. McKivitz either becomes all pro, or they have to get one in the draft or free agency.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by A-R-S:
Not sure a team has ever been as loaded as SF is with such a singular glaring weakness. I can see trying to trade a first for a one year Wirfs rental as the ultimate 'all in' move. (I'm sure the Bucs say no).

Lenoir is every bit as glaring a weakness unfortunately.

All teams have weaknesses. Even KC & PHI have weaknesses.

Well, I watched all five 49er super bowl winners, and none had weaknesses. I don't think the 49er OLine is a weakness, rather the right side right now is weak (Burford and McKivitz) but I can see them improving and becoming (hopefully) a strength later on in the season. My problem is will Purdy survive long enough to see that improvement happen? I just don't like the fact that Purdy got clocked on a 7 step drop pass in the 4th QTR when the score was something like 27-7. Why the hell is kyle still in (what looked like) 11 personnel when he should be in heavy one back, two tight end sets and running the ball down the Steelers throats. Yes he needs to give the rams some new offensive looks to think about, but I'd rather he do that with Sam Darnold than Purdy.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Give Brock Purdy time to throw (say 4 seconds in the pocket) and he'll be unstoppable.

Just watching Johnny Del's breakdown and JTO's breakdown of how Purdy can see the field so well, give Purdy 4 seconds and 9 times out of ten he'll be completing mid range passes on defenses all day. Add in a good strong run game with a good OLine that doesn't even have to be average at run blocking - as long as they are above average to elite at pass blocking - and man you can see how hard this offense will be to stop with all the receiving talent they have. Brock's ability to see and read the defense is so elite.

Give any QB in the NFL 4 seconds in the pocket consistently and they should be unstoppable. If not, they don't belong in the league.

That's NCommands point about elite OLinemen. Does the OLine make the QB, or does the QB make the OLIne?

My point was that expecting an o line to hold up 4 seconds in pass pro consistently is not realistic. In most cases, a QB needs to buy time in the pocket after 3 seconds.

That's fine. I happen to think that the OLine is really a big part of the QB's success. We've seen backup QB's *win* in the super bowl, and then the next year, these backups are on another team. Possibly a big part of the success of these NON-elite backup QB's is because of the Quality of the OLine they play behind.

Guys this one is easy, when do great QBs look bad… when they are under sustained duress.

Tom Brady, Peyton, Aaron have all looked and out up poor numbers.