49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Is a tier 1 a top 5, top 3 or #1?

It depends. This year, there are only 2 teams in the tier 1 OL. Eagles and Lions.

There are 3 on the DL: Cowboys, 49ers and Steelers.

It doesn't depend because that leaves it up to your opinion vs everyone elses. Be decisive and give us a parameter in which we can set the standard.

By the way, PHI is currently ranked 25th in PBLK and 13th in RBLK.

That's not my standard. It's BT's. And it's been spot on annually. That's why I keep referencing it as a starting, mid and playoff point.

And some years they have 3 in tier 1...or just 1. So it's their standard.

Seems irelevant to our discussions in general if there is no clear cut definition for what makes a tier 1 o line. It gives too much room to move goal posts. There should be clear cut tiers or else it leaves things up to your opinion (BT's) vs everyone elses. But I know you by now. You'll never comit to anything on here which is why everyone gets so frustrated with you.

Going by your (BT's) standard, the only tier 1 o line last season was PHI and perhaps DET. DET didn't even make the playoffs and KC's tier 2-3 o line beat PHI in the SB.

Huh? OL's don't play each other. LOL

No, their only two teams in tier 1 OL's from last year faced off in the Superbowl. One was going to win, one was going to lose. The fact that both their tier OL made the Superbowl is a pretty good indication they had accurate tiers.

This year it's Philly and now, Detroit. KC is no longer in tier 1. And Detroit OL > KC's OL as we just saw. So again, they were accurate. And have been for years.

You can look to PFF for your metrics. That's fine. I'll pivot to SME's on talent and ability and that's what typically shows up when it's needed most.

Really? The team with the premier tier 1 o line lossed the SB to a team with a tier 2-3 o line. Is that worded better for you?

KC didn't have a tier 1 o line last season either. Check their efficiency stats since we cannot agree on rankings. Patrick Mahomes was the 4th highest pressured QB in the playoffs, had the most scrambles (7) and their running game averaged 3.2 YPA.

about those pressures, NC said those were good pressures

This is my favorite so far : "Huh? OL's don't play each other. LOL", "Detroit OL > KC's OL as we just saw"

Did he really use the term "good pressures"? 🤣

he did as he was hit with how much PM was pressured in the SB after NC used the no Sacks as a barometer of great OL'ness (he forgot that he said the 49ers no sack game in the NFCCG was still terrible OL play)

gotta love NC

Thema goal posts justa keep on movin.

On a serious note. Brock Purdy was the 8th highest pressured QB in the playoffs, scrambled only twice and the run game averaged 4.4 YPA.

sounds like a decent OL

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Is a tier 1 a top 5, top 3 or #1?

It depends. This year, there are only 2 teams in the tier 1 OL. Eagles and Lions.

There are 3 on the DL: Cowboys, 49ers and Steelers.

It doesn't depend because that leaves it up to your opinion vs everyone elses. Be decisive and give us a parameter in which we can set the standard.

By the way, PHI is currently ranked 25th in PBLK and 13th in RBLK.

That's not my standard. It's BT's. And it's been spot on annually. That's why I keep referencing it as a starting, mid and playoff point.

And some years they have 3 in tier 1...or just 1. So it's their standard.

Seems irelevant to our discussions in general if there is no clear cut definition for what makes a tier 1 o line. It gives too much room to move goal posts. There should be clear cut tiers or else it leaves things up to your opinion (BT's) vs everyone elses. But I know you by now. You'll never comit to anything on here which is why everyone gets so frustrated with you.

Going by your (BT's) standard, the only tier 1 o line last season was PHI and perhaps DET. DET didn't even make the playoffs and KC's tier 2-3 o line beat PHI in the SB.

Huh? OL's don't play each other. LOL

No, their only two teams in tier 1 OL's from last year faced off in the Superbowl. One was going to win, one was going to lose. The fact that both their tier OL made the Superbowl is a pretty good indication they had accurate tiers.

This year it's Philly and now, Detroit. KC is no longer in tier 1. And Detroit OL > KC's OL as we just saw. So again, they were accurate. And have been for years.

You can look to PFF for your metrics. That's fine. I'll pivot to SME's on talent and ability and that's what typically shows up when it's needed most.

Really? The team with the premier tier 1 o line lossed the SB to a team with a tier 2-3 o line. Is that worded better for you?

KC didn't have a tier 1 o line last season either. Check their efficiency stats since we cannot agree on rankings. Patrick Mahomes was the 4th highest pressured QB in the playoffs, had the most scrambles (7) and their running game averaged 3.2 YPA.

about those pressures, NC said those were good pressures

This is my favorite so far : "Huh? OL's don't play each other. LOL", "Detroit OL > KC's OL as we just saw"

Did he really use the term "good pressures"? 🤣

he did as he was hit with how much PM was pressured in the SB after NC used the no Sacks as a barometer of great OL'ness (he forgot that he said the 49ers no sack game in the NFCCG was still terrible OL play)

gotta love NC

Thema goal posts justa keep on movin.

On a serious note. Brock Purdy was the 8th highest pressured QB in the playoffs, scrambled only twice and the run game averaged 4.4 YPA.

sounds like a decent OL

Especially when you add in the fact that no other o line other than the 49ers o line faced the #1 and #2 pass rush in back to back weeks or in even throughout the entire playoffs for that matter.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Ya'll still doing the QB-must-transcend thing? And the OL-makes-the-QB thing?

When is everyone going to learn they make each other. Or at least, give the other the best chance to succeed the most.

If you want the best odds, you need both to be playing at the highest level possible.

Stop fighting.

One makes the other more. All anyone has ever said. One is also more important than the other, as evidenced on Sunday.

Not nearly as much as you'd like to think and we've got a gazillion L's to prove it. Just like we have a number of top OL's who can't help a crappy QB either. Both can only do so much.

The degree is not as big as you'd like to believe; not even for your favorite outlier player in Patrick Mahomes.

As to importance? Sure. QB is the most important player in any team sport even if he hands if off for 180 yards a game.

Bingo!

As for Bubba - Chris Dolman basically ended his career by just making him a turnstyle in the '87 playoff year. We were 14-2 (or something like that) and Blubber just blows it for the whole team. <sigh>

Haha. The fact that we have a member here with his name is epic esp. given he saw your post!

Bubba always had a weight issue. Walsh did everything he could to help Bubba lose weight. When he did - he indeed was an elite left tackle. However, that was 3 years out of a 9 year career.

The OLine stacking is almost to my liking. They have a young guy in Moore right next to Pryor at the tackles spot. Then you have young Zakelj and an older Feliciano for the interior line. So old guy backing up a young guy, from the depth perspective. What I'd like to happen is for Feliciano or Pryor to be upgraded by a high round pick next year - a guy that can step into Trent's spot, sort of like Moore (they think) can fill in for Trent. In other words, love to have draft picks with a longer contract than one year rentals in Feliciano or Pryor - for developmental purposes. We lost Brunskill after his contract was over, we could have used his depth this year. Oh well.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
I'm checking this thread as often as I did the Bosa thread waiting for his contract signing. Just really hoping we sign a RT….

A trade for a high end T or CB could put this team over the top ala-Rams style. But I'm not going to get my hopes up given ShanaLynch have proven these are the two areas they believe they can work around despite it costing them repeatedly in the end.

Unfortunately your right and when philly or Dallas plays is it could costs us.

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
I'm checking this thread as often as I did the Bosa thread waiting for his contract signing. Just really hoping we sign a RT….

A trade for a high end T or CB could put this team over the top ala-Rams style. But I'm not going to get my hopes up given ShanaLynch have proven these are the two areas they believe they can work around despite it costing them repeatedly in the end.

Unfortunately your right and when philly or Dallas plays is it could costs us.

Could cost them also

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
I'm checking this thread as often as I did the Bosa thread waiting for his contract signing. Just really hoping we sign a RT….

A trade for a high end T or CB could put this team over the top ala-Rams style. But I'm not going to get my hopes up given ShanaLynch have proven these are the two areas they believe they can work around despite it costing them repeatedly in the end.

Unfortunately your right and when philly or Dallas plays is it could costs us.

I'm hoping Trent can last a whole season - that would be great if he's 💯% healthy going into the playoffs. But agree with both of you, if ShanaLynch can get a high end tackle or a top notch DB for peanuts (like the CMC trade) that would probably put the 49ers over the top.

I'm predicting that Burford and McKivitz will play better against the Rams (vs the Steeler game) simply because they have had another week of reps with each other, and finally Bosa's back. Bosa versus McKivitz in practice will go a long way to improving McKivitz as a player this year. Iron sharpens Iron.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
I'm checking this thread as often as I did the Bosa thread waiting for his contract signing. Just really hoping we sign a RT….

A trade for a high end T or CB could put this team over the top ala-Rams style. But I'm not going to get my hopes up given ShanaLynch have proven these are the two areas they believe they can work around despite it costing them repeatedly in the end.

Unfortunately your right and when philly or Dallas plays is it could costs us.

I'm hoping Trent can last a whole season - that would be great if he's 💯% healthy going into the playoffs. But agree with both of you, if ShanaLynch can get a high end tackle or a top notch DB for peanuts (like the CMC trade) that would probably put the 49ers over the top.

I'm predicting that Burford and McKivitz will play better against the Rams (vs the Steeler game) simply because they have had another week of reps with each other, and finally Bosa's back. Bosa versus McKivitz in practice will go a long way to improving McKivitz as a player this year. Iron sharpens Iron.

Doesn't both first teams practice against the scout teams/Practice squad ?

as for aquisitions, OL doesn't really pop up on the trading block. I see DE (Burns) or maybe another RB to give McCafe a break and to close out games (DHenry)

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Doesn't both first teams practice against the scout teams/Practice squad ?

as for aquisitions, OL doesn't really pop up on the trading block. I see DE (Burns) or maybe another RB to give McCafe a break and to close out games (DHenry)

The starting teams (offense and defense) do practice against the scout teams, but on one on one drills - I"m sure they can help each other out. Quotes from Foerster:

When you go out to practice for the first time on Wednesday, what are the points of emphasis for Colton McKivitz?
"Same things as always. There's no change. Nothing's changed. So, the same reason you get beat on Sundays, the same reason you get beat in August. The same reason you get beat in April. They're all the same things. There's no, oh gosh, this happened now. We'll fix this. No, it's the same points of emphasis. And during the course of a game, a guy can fall back off and fall back into bad habits. Or a guy can just, in the course of a game, lose sight of it. He needs to set a little bit deeper or set a little bit wider, or he's pulling back his outside hand too quickly. Whatever. There's a hundred different things, but it's no different than you just look at it and go – this is what's wrong. And it's that simple. It's simple, but it's not easy to do and to perform when you're in the heat of battle against a great rush or a silent count, all the things that went into the game, but no excuses, that's what we have to do. We'll be doing it this week and we'll do it every week for the next 17, however many weeks are left, and if we get to play after that, then we'll have to do it then. So, but really there's nothing like, there's no, oh, hey Colton, now we'll go out and now that will never happen again. Shoot. No, it's going to happen again. It's the same things that when Trent struggles with something, it's the same stuff. It's all the same. It's very rare that a guy stops having whatever his Achilles heel is, it's going to kind of stick around for his whole career. It's hard to finally put it to bed. You're always going to have something in you that you have to continue to address, and sometimes new things crop up."

So McKivitz, on individual drills, can be helped by Bosa to (as stated above) set a little bit deeper, get better at the hand fighting, and of course, that DLine, can do two on two, three on three, line stunt drills to get their OLine communications better. Brendel and McKivitz also has to get used to communicating with each other, since the Center sets the line protections and such. Maybe McKivitz - in the heat of battle - missed the protection calls, etc... Foerster identified some issues specifically for Colton:

How do you term it though? The mistakes that he made, were they easy fixes? Are they difficult fixes?
"Yeah, no, all the typical, when a guy runs around the corner on you, there's a lot of different reasons for it. Sometimes it's because you don't sit deep enough. Sometimes it's because you lean at the point of contact. Sometimes it's because you don't use your outside hand properly. Sometimes it's because you do something with your footwork. Sometimes it's you reach across with your inside hand too quick, I mean, I could go down a list of 15 things, 20 things that all of them could lead to a guy turning the corner and spinning at the top and getting the pressures that he got from that, which is how he rushed the passer, which is what you work on, which is really hard to replicate during the week. But as the game goes on, you would hope that it would get better. And it just didn't, we just didn't make those steps during the game that you hoped to make. But a great learning experience for him and for our team. And obviously it has to be better and we'll keep working to make it better."

This is Colton's first NFL start, and if this is (hopefully) the worst he'll ever be, then the future looks bright for him.

That "#1 o line" gave up 4 sacks last night. That O line couldn't pass protect to save its life and Jalen threw that god awful INT into double coverage. If it weren't for PHI doing a 180 and pounding the ball the rest of the night things could have gotten real ugly. That o line has given up 7 sacks in the first 2 games of the season. Can't wait to see the pressure rate for last nights game when it comes out today.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
That "#1 o line" gave up 4 sacks last night. That O line couldn't pass protect to save its life and Jalen threw that god awful INT into double coverage. If it weren't for PHI doing a 180 and pounding the ball the rest of the night things could have gotten real ugly. That o line has given up 7 sacks in the first 2 games of the season. Can't wait to see the pressure rate for last nights game when it comes out today.

Then expect them to fall out of tier 1 if they keep that up. They absolutely have tier 1 talent but aren't playing like it and that will be reflected in their retiers.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Did he really use the term "good pressures"? 🤣

No.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Is a tier 1 a top 5, top 3 or #1?

It depends. This year, there are only 2 teams in the tier 1 OL. Eagles and Lions.

There are 3 on the DL: Cowboys, 49ers and Steelers.

You are conflating the small sample of a few that you are. reading for free with what is actually in the whole article if you read the entire thing

I'm not sure if this is English or not but I think you're saying I'm only focusing on the tier 1's. That's accurate as that is what I'd like to achieve here. We've done that with the defense numerous times. Tier 1's are the topic of the subject/goal/formula...and Superbowl wins.

I'm saying you can't even definitively say how many teams are in tier 1, or any tier for that matter, because you only read the freebie s**t because you won't pay for the article. You just trot out the 1st few you see. I asked you if you really even knew how many were in tier 1 and you couldn't say. And this is the s**t you cite which is lame. You also did it again the other day when ragging on the OL after the PIT game…then acknowledging you hadn't even watched. But hey at least you watched the condensed version,later…whatever that means 😂Be better

The "free" article covers all the tier 1 teams...for free. No need to see or buy anything else unless you're a betting man. YAC should.

That's more BS from your crew (like, good pressures). Sad you continue to warp reality. I was driving and asked 9ers4eva and others how it went as it 'sounded' like from reading the WZ real quick, the right side was still a concern and McKivitz was victimized. He clarified until I could get home and watch the game.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Is a tier 1 a top 5, top 3 or #1?

It depends. This year, there are only 2 teams in the tier 1 OL. Eagles and Lions.

There are 3 on the DL: Cowboys, 49ers and Steelers.

It doesn't depend because that leaves it up to your opinion vs everyone elses. Be decisive and give us a parameter in which we can set the standard.

By the way, PHI is currently ranked 25th in PBLK and 13th in RBLK.

That's not my standard. It's BT's. And it's been spot on annually. That's why I keep referencing it as a starting, mid and playoff point.

And some years they have 3 in tier 1...or just 1. So it's their standard.

Seems irelevant to our discussions in general if there is no clear cut definition for what makes a tier 1 o line. It gives too much room to move goal posts. There should be clear cut tiers or else it leaves things up to your opinion (BT's) vs everyone elses. But I know you by now. You'll never comit to anything on here which is why everyone gets so frustrated with you.

Going by your (BT's) standard, the only tier 1 o line last season was PHI and perhaps DET. DET didn't even make the playoffs and KC's tier 2-3 o line beat PHI in the SB.

Huh? OL's don't play each other. LOL

No, their only two teams in tier 1 OL's from last year faced off in the Superbowl. One was going to win, one was going to lose. The fact that both their tier OL made the Superbowl is a pretty good indication they had accurate tiers.

This year it's Philly and now, Detroit. KC is no longer in tier 1. And Detroit OL > KC's OL as we just saw. So again, they were accurate. And have been for years.

You can look to PFF for your metrics. That's fine. I'll pivot to SME's on talent and ability and that's what typically shows up when it's needed most.

Really? The team with the premier tier 1 o line lossed the SB to a team with a tier 2-3 o line. Is that worded better for you?

KC didn't have a tier 1 o line last season either. Check their efficiency stats since we cannot agree on rankings. Patrick Mahomes was the 4th highest pressured QB in the playoffs, had the most scrambles (7) and their running game averaged 3.2 YPA.

You're making up the first part. I already showed you they were tier 1. All year.

Sure, and PFF can tell me Jerry Rice is only an average receiver too.

You're looking for that golden stat for the OL and you're never going to find it. Stick with the SME's who actually know OL and DL play.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Then expect them to fall out of tier 1 if they keep that up. They absolutely have tier 1 talent but aren't playing like it and that will be reflected in their retiers.

He doesnt even realize that this completely kills his entire narrative of how we need to "get like them" before the season begins.

Everyone here wants to the top OLine after the season begins.... But that has not been the mantra all off-season.

The mantra has been that some here can GM better at home than the guys that possibly have the #1 collection of talent in the NFL right now.

Not improving during the season (something we all want) has not been a complaint.

The funny thing about these terms u latch onto until they die out is all of the new branches u sneakily force to grow out as u have no choice but to pivot.

"Tier 1 trending" one week.... Now u are saying "well... at least they have Tier 1 talent" like its some consolation prize anyone here values.

The people u are disagreeing with a say they want a better team overall than tier 1 talent at the OLine position while sacrificing the overall talent of the team.

So sneaking this "well... at least" line in is yet another failure.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Is a tier 1 a top 5, top 3 or #1?

It depends. This year, there are only 2 teams in the tier 1 OL. Eagles and Lions.

There are 3 on the DL: Cowboys, 49ers and Steelers.

It doesn't depend because that leaves it up to your opinion vs everyone elses. Be decisive and give us a parameter in which we can set the standard.

By the way, PHI is currently ranked 25th in PBLK and 13th in RBLK.

That's not my standard. It's BT's. And it's been spot on annually. That's why I keep referencing it as a starting, mid and playoff point.

And some years they have 3 in tier 1...or just 1. So it's their standard.

Seems irelevant to our discussions in general if there is no clear cut definition for what makes a tier 1 o line. It gives too much room to move goal posts. There should be clear cut tiers or else it leaves things up to your opinion (BT's) vs everyone elses. But I know you by now. You'll never comit to anything on here which is why everyone gets so frustrated with you.

Going by your (BT's) standard, the only tier 1 o line last season was PHI and perhaps DET. DET didn't even make the playoffs and KC's tier 2-3 o line beat PHI in the SB.

Huh? OL's don't play each other. LOL

No, their only two teams in tier 1 OL's from last year faced off in the Superbowl. One was going to win, one was going to lose. The fact that both their tier OL made the Superbowl is a pretty good indication they had accurate tiers.

This year it's Philly and now, Detroit. KC is no longer in tier 1. And Detroit OL > KC's OL as we just saw. So again, they were accurate. And have been for years.

You can look to PFF for your metrics. That's fine. I'll pivot to SME's on talent and ability and that's what typically shows up when it's needed most.

Really? The team with the premier tier 1 o line lossed the SB to a team with a tier 2-3 o line. Is that worded better for you?

KC didn't have a tier 1 o line last season either. Check their efficiency stats since we cannot agree on rankings. Patrick Mahomes was the 4th highest pressured QB in the playoffs, had the most scrambles (7) and their running game averaged 3.2 YPA.

You're making up the first part. I already showed you they were tier 1. All year.

Sure, and PFF can tell me Jerry Rice is only an average receiver too.

You're looking for that golden stat for the OL and you're never going to find it. Stick with the SME's who actually know OL and DL play.

Do I really need to pull up regular season efficiency stats as well? I told you before that I take rankings with a grain of salt and as soon as you talk down on pff's rankings and boost up anothers, I start hitting you with statistical facts. Tell me in which statistical category KC's o line was tier 1 whether it was regular season or playoffs?

Golden stat? I gave you 3 that prove you and BT wrong. What other stats are there? As far as I am concerned and probably everybody else is as well, you have really nothing to back your claims up with besides some ranking that no one else even backs you up on. That is something that you accuse me of with pff. Which isn't actually true because I also use, espn, the pro football data base, pfr, my own two eyes, etc. Just admit that KC's o line didn't fit your tier 1 standard and still won the SB so that we can move onto more interesting and current topics.