49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
you need to pay for the full list

but tier one at the start of the season is Det and Phill

that's it?
what about KC, CLE? who determines the tiers?

It's rare to have 3 teams in tier 1. These aren't fluffy ESPN or PFF rankings here. These are like having a bunch of thl's and JohnnyDel's working full time on analyzing OL & DL play. But only OL/DL play and doing it annually and retiering 3 times a year to ensure a full body of work matches up. And the results have proven spot on and NFL associates agree. Last year, only 2 were listed in tier 1: Philly and KC.

As to KC and CLE? Neither are in tier 1 this year and it showed why after week 1.

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-offensive-line-rankings/

It's a pay site for betting (b/c so much is determined by the trench play) if you'd like to see the rest.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Did he really use the term "good pressures"? 🤣

No.

That would be very simple to prove. Prove it you two.

Saying not all pressures are equal does not equate, "good pressure." LOL. No pressure is "good."

Lol prove what? You clearly said there is a difference in pressures..,some good some bad

Nobody said good pressure but you and All.

And like I said, you'd only need to search back a few pages if you wanted to prove it. That's as bad a 9ers4eva saying I'd take a tier 1 OL over QB.

Never change bud, always keep arguing in bad faith

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Then expect them to fall out of tier 1 if they keep that up. They absolutely have tier 1 talent but aren't playing like it and that will be reflected in their retiers.

He doesnt even realize that this completely kills his entire narrative of how we need to "get like them" before the season begins.

Everyone here wants to the top OLine after the season begins.... But that has not been the mantra all off-season.

The mantra has been that some here can GM better at home than the guys that possibly have the #1 collection of talent in the NFL right now.

Not improving during the season (something we all want) has not been a complaint.

The funny thing about these terms u latch onto until they die out is all of the new branches u sneakily force to grow out as u have no choice but to pivot.

"Tier 1 trending" one week.... Now u are saying "well... at least they have Tier 1 talent" like its some consolation prize anyone here values.

The people u are disagreeing with a say they want a better team overall than tier 1 talent at the OLine position while sacrificing the overall talent of the team.

So sneaking this "well... at least" line in is yet another failure.

if Tier 1 OL can change throughout the season, then NC's philosophy he is absorbing is technically BS. It's just a power ranking

Not if those 2 teams remain in that tier all year. Injuries happen too.

right, so saying you need a #1 or a tier 1 all offseason is false. you just need to be the last two teams standing to fall into those rankings/tiers

Except in the real world, the Superbowl winners came from that tier. But to your point, yes, the tier 1's going into the playoffs are absolutely most important!

This brings me back to the changing of the tiers, You will always have a tier 1 for the SB winner since the tiers change. That is no indicator of who's going to win, it's just whos hot at that time

I've yet to see a tier 1 (season opener) miss the playoffs so far. But that's possible. That could happen with the Lions. Stay tuned. It just so happens that both ended up facing each other in last year's Superbowl.

And no, it doesn't work in reverse. These are noted as tier 1 long before the playoffs and you've got 3 total points of the season to verify over time unlike an ESPN ranking that's looking at just who's hottest this week.

I'm so confused. DET just missed the playoffs, since when have they made it? Are we saying they weren't tier 1 last season, when Jamaal Williams ran for a Barry Sanders volume of TDs?

No they weren't. Read the rationale in the link as to why they are this year.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Did he really use the term "good pressures"? 🤣

No.

That would be very simple to prove. Prove it you two.

Saying not all pressures are equal does not equate, "good pressure." LOL. No pressure is "good."

Lol prove what? You clearly said there is a difference in pressures..,some good some bad

Nobody said good pressure but you and All.

And like I said, you'd only need to search back a few pages if you wanted to prove it. That's as bad a 9ers4eva saying I'd take a tier 1 OL over QB.

Never change bud, always keep arguing in bad faith

The only one twisting words and making stuff up here is you so...likewise.

I'll wait for your proof of that twist.

Originally posted by NCommand:
The only one twisting words and making stuff up here is you so...likewise.

I'll wait for your proof of that twist.

Funny it's always everyone else lol

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
The only one twisting words and making stuff up here is you so...likewise.

I'll wait for your proof of that twist.

Funny it's always everyone else lol

Only 2 here made a claim? So yeah.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
The only one twisting words and making stuff up here is you so...likewise.

I'll wait for your proof of that twist.

Funny it's always everyone else lol

Only 2 here made a claim? So yeah.

you made the claim, all we do is bring up what you say and watch you squirm .. like now. i do it in good fun though

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Then expect them to fall out of tier 1 if they keep that up. They absolutely have tier 1 talent but aren't playing like it and that will be reflected in their retiers.

He doesnt even realize that this completely kills his entire narrative of how we need to "get like them" before the season begins.

Everyone here wants to the top OLine after the season begins.... But that has not been the mantra all off-season.

The mantra has been that some here can GM better at home than the guys that possibly have the #1 collection of talent in the NFL right now.

Not improving during the season (something we all want) has not been a complaint.

The funny thing about these terms u latch onto until they die out is all of the new branches u sneakily force to grow out as u have no choice but to pivot.

"Tier 1 trending" one week.... Now u are saying "well... at least they have Tier 1 talent" like its some consolation prize anyone here values.

The people u are disagreeing with a say they want a better team overall than tier 1 talent at the OLine position while sacrificing the overall talent of the team.

So sneaking this "well... at least" line in is yet another failure.

if Tier 1 OL can change throughout the season, then NC's philosophy he is absorbing is technically BS. It's just a power ranking

Not if those 2 teams remain in that tier all year. Injuries happen too.

right, so saying you need a #1 or a tier 1 all offseason is false. you just need to be the last two teams standing to fall into those rankings/tiers

Except in the real world, the Superbowl winners came from that tier. But to your point, yes, the tier 1's going into the playoffs are absolutely most important!

This brings me back to the changing of the tiers, You will always have a tier 1 for the SB winner since the tiers change. That is no indicator of who's going to win, it's just whos hot at that time

I've yet to see a tier 1 (season opener) miss the playoffs so far. But that's possible. That could happen with the Lions. Stay tuned. It just so happens that both ended up facing each other in last year's Superbowl.

And no, it doesn't work in reverse. These are noted as tier 1 long before the playoffs and you've got 3 total points of the season to verify over time unlike an ESPN ranking that's looking at just who's hottest this week.

I'm so confused. DET just missed the playoffs, since when have they made it? Are we saying they weren't tier 1 last season, when Jamaal Williams ran for a Barry Sanders volume of TDs?

No they weren't. Read the rationale in the link as to why they are this year.

We are leaning too heavy on these tiers, just cuz the site didn't see DET as tier 1, they played that way all season, and missed the postseason. So yes, that can happen, and it did imo. It's the same group year over year, more or less. I appreciate the link, as now I see where the mysterious tiers are coming from , hard to lean on this tho, as it's 95% paywalled, and I can't see SF.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Then expect them to fall out of tier 1 if they keep that up. They absolutely have tier 1 talent but aren't playing like it and that will be reflected in their retiers.

He doesnt even realize that this completely kills his entire narrative of how we need to "get like them" before the season begins.

Everyone here wants to the top OLine after the season begins.... But that has not been the mantra all off-season.

The mantra has been that some here can GM better at home than the guys that possibly have the #1 collection of talent in the NFL right now.

Not improving during the season (something we all want) has not been a complaint.

The funny thing about these terms u latch onto until they die out is all of the new branches u sneakily force to grow out as u have no choice but to pivot.

"Tier 1 trending" one week.... Now u are saying "well... at least they have Tier 1 talent" like its some consolation prize anyone here values.

The people u are disagreeing with a say they want a better team overall than tier 1 talent at the OLine position while sacrificing the overall talent of the team.

So sneaking this "well... at least" line in is yet another failure.

if Tier 1 OL can change throughout the season, then NC's philosophy he is absorbing is technically BS. It's just a power ranking

Not if those 2 teams remain in that tier all year. Injuries happen too.

right, so saying you need a #1 or a tier 1 all offseason is false. you just need to be the last two teams standing to fall into those rankings/tiers

Except in the real world, the Superbowl winners came from that tier. But to your point, yes, the tier 1's going into the playoffs are absolutely most important!

This brings me back to the changing of the tiers, You will always have a tier 1 for the SB winner since the tiers change. That is no indicator of who's going to win, it's just whos hot at that time

I've yet to see a tier 1 (season opener) miss the playoffs so far. But that's possible. That could happen with the Lions. Stay tuned. It just so happens that both ended up facing each other in last year's Superbowl.

And no, it doesn't work in reverse. These are noted as tier 1 long before the playoffs and you've got 3 total points of the season to verify over time unlike an ESPN ranking that's looking at just who's hottest this week.

I'm so confused. DET just missed the playoffs, since when have they made it? Are we saying they weren't tier 1 last season, when Jamaal Williams ran for a Barry Sanders volume of TDs?

No they weren't. Read the rationale in the link as to why they are this year.

We are leaning too heavy on these tiers, just cuz the site didn't see DET as tier 1, they played that way all season, and missed the postseason. So yes, that can happen, and it did imo. It's the same group year over year, more or less. I appreciate the link, as now I see where the mysterious tiers are coming from , hard to lean on this tho, as it's 95% paywalled, and I can't see SF.

uh oh, 4f6 is starting to see NCs scam

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Then expect them to fall out of tier 1 if they keep that up. They absolutely have tier 1 talent but aren't playing like it and that will be reflected in their retiers.

He doesnt even realize that this completely kills his entire narrative of how we need to "get like them" before the season begins.

Everyone here wants to the top OLine after the season begins.... But that has not been the mantra all off-season.

The mantra has been that some here can GM better at home than the guys that possibly have the #1 collection of talent in the NFL right now.

Not improving during the season (something we all want) has not been a complaint.

The funny thing about these terms u latch onto until they die out is all of the new branches u sneakily force to grow out as u have no choice but to pivot.

"Tier 1 trending" one week.... Now u are saying "well... at least they have Tier 1 talent" like its some consolation prize anyone here values.

The people u are disagreeing with a say they want a better team overall than tier 1 talent at the OLine position while sacrificing the overall talent of the team.

So sneaking this "well... at least" line in is yet another failure.

if Tier 1 OL can change throughout the season, then NC's philosophy he is absorbing is technically BS. It's just a power ranking

Not if those 2 teams remain in that tier all year. Injuries happen too.

right, so saying you need a #1 or a tier 1 all offseason is false. you just need to be the last two teams standing to fall into those rankings/tiers

Except in the real world, the Superbowl winners came from that tier. But to your point, yes, the tier 1's going into the playoffs are absolutely most important!

This brings me back to the changing of the tiers, You will always have a tier 1 for the SB winner since the tiers change. That is no indicator of who's going to win, it's just whos hot at that time

I've yet to see a tier 1 (season opener) miss the playoffs so far. But that's possible. That could happen with the Lions. Stay tuned. It just so happens that both ended up facing each other in last year's Superbowl.

And no, it doesn't work in reverse. These are noted as tier 1 long before the playoffs and you've got 3 total points of the season to verify over time unlike an ESPN ranking that's looking at just who's hottest this week.

I'm so confused. DET just missed the playoffs, since when have they made it? Are we saying they weren't tier 1 last season, when Jamaal Williams ran for a Barry Sanders volume of TDs?

No they weren't. Read the rationale in the link as to why they are this year.

We are leaning too heavy on these tiers, just cuz the site didn't see DET as tier 1, they played that way all season, and missed the postseason. So yes, that can happen, and it did imo. It's the same group year over year, more or less. I appreciate the link, as now I see where the mysterious tiers are coming from , hard to lean on this tho, as it's 95% paywalled, and I can't see SF.

Would you take that back when I tell you they have SF's DL in the tier 1 also? Just 1 of 3 teams.

I do think the best odds here on the OL just play the kids. In time, McK, Burford may really be guys for us. Brendel and Banks already looking pretty good to me.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
The only one twisting words and making stuff up here is you so...likewise.

I'll wait for your proof of that twist.

Funny it's always everyone else lol

Only 2 here made a claim? So yeah.

you made the claim, all we do is bring up what you say and watch you squirm .. like now. i do it in good fun though

You know the truth but it's all in good fun here too.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I do think the best odds here on the OL just play the kids. In time, McK, Burford may really be guys for us. Brendel and Banks already looking pretty good to me.

And when/if they do reach that level, they'll be slotted in tier 1 appropriately.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
The only one twisting words and making stuff up here is you so...likewise.

I'll wait for your proof of that twist.

Funny it's always everyone else lol

Only 2 here made a claim? So yeah.

Here are some of my favorites. Unthreatening pressures was the best 🤣

No sacks though. They had 70. An NFL record coming in. If you don't close or that pressure doesn't push a QB into danger and/or stupid decisions, it's just a pressure stat. If the QB always has a lane or space to slide, it's just a pressure. Will Mahomes make the most of light pressure? Sure! Is he any different than any other HOF QB under serious duress? Of course not.

Sacks, hits, pressures all matter if they lead to negative plays esp. when it matters most.

Sacks are a negative play.

Hits can range from moot to negative plays.

Pressures can range from moot to negative plays.

If you're leaning on PFF, 35-40% is normal. It's all about how they choose to define their pressures.

The reason those pressures didn't translate into sacks was because they were unthreatening isolated pressures with plenty of blocked space to slide and move and run through. The QB still had to take it and make an off schedule play and PM is certainly special that way.

Now go watch a 9er Superbowl and see if you can see a vast difference in pressure

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Then expect them to fall out of tier 1 if they keep that up. They absolutely have tier 1 talent but aren't playing like it and that will be reflected in their retiers.

He doesnt even realize that this completely kills his entire narrative of how we need to "get like them" before the season begins.

Everyone here wants to the top OLine after the season begins.... But that has not been the mantra all off-season.

The mantra has been that some here can GM better at home than the guys that possibly have the #1 collection of talent in the NFL right now.

Not improving during the season (something we all want) has not been a complaint.

The funny thing about these terms u latch onto until they die out is all of the new branches u sneakily force to grow out as u have no choice but to pivot.

"Tier 1 trending" one week.... Now u are saying "well... at least they have Tier 1 talent" like its some consolation prize anyone here values.

The people u are disagreeing with a say they want a better team overall than tier 1 talent at the OLine position while sacrificing the overall talent of the team.

So sneaking this "well... at least" line in is yet another failure.

if Tier 1 OL can change throughout the season, then NC's philosophy he is absorbing is technically BS. It's just a power ranking

Not if those 2 teams remain in that tier all year. Injuries happen too.

right, so saying you need a #1 or a tier 1 all offseason is false. you just need to be the last two teams standing to fall into those rankings/tiers

Except in the real world, the Superbowl winners came from that tier. But to your point, yes, the tier 1's going into the playoffs are absolutely most important!

This brings me back to the changing of the tiers, You will always have a tier 1 for the SB winner since the tiers change. That is no indicator of who's going to win, it's just whos hot at that time

I've yet to see a tier 1 (season opener) miss the playoffs so far. But that's possible. That could happen with the Lions. Stay tuned. It just so happens that both ended up facing each other in last year's Superbowl.

And no, it doesn't work in reverse. These are noted as tier 1 long before the playoffs and you've got 3 total points of the season to verify over time unlike an ESPN ranking that's looking at just who's hottest this week.

I'm so confused. DET just missed the playoffs, since when have they made it? Are we saying they weren't tier 1 last season, when Jamaal Williams ran for a Barry Sanders volume of TDs?

No they weren't. Read the rationale in the link as to why they are this year.

We are leaning too heavy on these tiers, just cuz the site didn't see DET as tier 1, they played that way all season, and missed the postseason. So yes, that can happen, and it did imo. It's the same group year over year, more or less. I appreciate the link, as now I see where the mysterious tiers are coming from , hard to lean on this tho, as it's 95% paywalled, and I can't see SF.

Would you take that back when I tell you they have SF's DL in the tier 1 also? Just 1 of 3 teams.

The DL is a clear tier 1, so is the RB, maybe the WRs, the TE, the FB, the MLB, the coaching staff, and possibly the punter.