49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:
Oh no, he was an issue too. No doubt. You've spent too much time in the Jimmy Garoppolo thread...you're still in there now.

Speaking of spending too much time in a thread

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes I did. I said, IF you're going to have a classic drop back QB like Jimmy, you better get him the best OL you can. Otherwise, f*getaboutit.

And that's exactly what happened.

Or you get an elite drop back passer who can make a play or two with his legs.

Yac already proved jimmy had more time to throw than our playoff opponents did

it wasn't the legs

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Im saying elite QBs mask average/mediocre/bad lines..... QBs like mahomes

Its a very simple concept for 99% of football fans.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes I did. I said, IF you're going to have a classic drop back QB like Jimmy, you better get him the best OL you can. Otherwise, f*getaboutit.

And that's exactly what happened.

Or you get an elite drop back passer who can make a play or two with his legs.

Yac already proved jimmy had more time to throw than our playoff opponents did

it wasn't the legs

Of course it wasn't. But to admit that torpedoes a 4 season narrative. That can not happen.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes I did. I said, IF you're going to have a classic drop back QB like Jimmy, you better get him the best OL you can. Otherwise, f*getaboutit.

And that's exactly what happened.

Or you get an elite drop back passer who can make a play or two with his legs.

Yac already proved jimmy had more time to throw than our playoff opponents did

it wasn't the legs

Of course it wasn't. But to admit that torpedoes a 4 season narrative. That can not happen.

lol don't help him extend this, please

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Are you trying to say some QB's escape pressure better than others?

Incredible!

Im saying elite QBs mask average/mediocre/bad lines..... QBs like mahomes

Short term, yes, an elite QB like an Andrew Luck will mask a bad offensive Line, but it will also cost the QB some health points in the long run. Andrew's bad OLine's contributed to his early retirement. I would not wish that future on Brock. I want him to play till he's 45.

I think that if you have a good OLine coach, like Foerster, you can get top of the line Offensive Line talent in the mid to late rounds and not have to spend a lot of high end first round draft capital on the OLine. The problem is that we didn't get Foerster until *after* the 2019 season. Banks, Brendel, McKivitz and Feliciano all have been impressive in my eyes. I wish we'd have gotten Feliciano when he was in his mid twenties though.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Are you trying to say some QB's escape pressure better than others?

Incredible!

Im saying elite QBs mask average/mediocre/bad lines..... QBs like mahomes

Except in Superbowls (31-9).

Also that chart has nothing to do with OL's. It's what the QB does WHEN there is pressure and we all know mobile QB's have a better shot at escaping than a classic drop back QB. In short, the chart doesn't really tell us anything we don't already know. But it's fun to talk about (so thanks).

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes I did. I said, IF you're going to have a classic drop back QB like Jimmy, you better get him the best OL you can. Otherwise, f*getaboutit.

And that's exactly what happened.

Or you get an elite drop back passer who can make a play or two with his legs.

That wasn't our reality then. Even with Trey. Now it is.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Chicago is 0-4

Here are some interesting names on that Chicago team. I wonder if (prior to the Trade deadline) the Chicago head coach gets fired, we can take a shot at one of these OLine guys.
Darnell wright,
Larry Borome
Tevan Jenkins.

it's very rare teams trade quality O-line guys

Trent Williams says why not?

Special case. Any elite O-lineman dealing with medical incompetence on their team?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
If they were elite, they'd easily be ranked in tier 1 by the SME's. And how can any reputable site rank them elite when they haven't been on the field together once in over two years? That's not to say IF they all were healthy and rolling, they do have elite talent and ability. It just hasn't been a reality in a number of years.

There is. They're in tier 1. Not many though. I haven't seen more than 2 in that tier 1 in a single year.

I wouldn't praise that approach yet given unit pass protection CLEARLY has been a big reason they haven't won #6 after 7 years of team control.

Hopefully this is the year though.

I can think of a couple bigger reasons.

It's crazy that people still don't see the difference between Jimmy and Purdy. The reason was freaking QB. If we had Purdy during these last 5-6 years we would've definitely won at least one SB.

Jimmy was a trade. Teams don't trade franchise QBs like Purdy, Brady, or Montana while they are at their peak. One reason Jimmy was let go is because he wasn't as good as Brady. Still, even Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl with a good OLine and defense. Point being, a good OLine makes things a lot easier for even tier 2 QBs to win games.

Jimmy was let go because Tom Brady wanted him gone. Belichick had Jimmy as the successor and Tom wasn't ready to hand it over.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Are you trying to say some QB's escape pressure better than others?

Incredible!

Im saying elite QBs mask average/mediocre/bad lines..... QBs like mahomes

Short term, yes, an elite QB like an Andrew Luck will mask a bad offensive Line, but it will also cost the QB some health points in the long run. Andrew's bad OLine's contributed to his early retirement. I would not wish that future on Brock. I want him to play till he's 45.

I think that if you have a good OLine coach, like Foerster, you can get top of the line Offensive Line talent in the mid to late rounds and not have to spend a lot of high end first round draft capital on the OLine. The problem is that we didn't get Foerster until *after* the 2019 season. Banks, Brendel, McKivitz and Feliciano all have been impressive in my eyes. I wish we'd have gotten Feliciano when he was in his mid twenties though.

I am willing to bet that Luck contributed quite a bit to the pressure and sacks he faced. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head but I watched quite a few of his games and he had a tendency to hold onto the ball too long waiting for s**t to open up down field.

After checking out the numbers, Luck's O line seemed to get worse and worse every year. This is his average time to throw before being pressured every year he was in the league.

2012- 3.54s
2013- 3.42s
2014- 3.35s
2015- 3.30s
2016- 3.22s
2017- n/a
2018- 3.13s
2019- n/a

The first 4 years of his career weren't bad though. 3.30+ seconds is actually pretty good.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
that is not saying he is an issue and you denied all the evidence that he did have time to throw

I recall that.

Your memory sucks.

Oh wow, look who's copying Brandon Thorn and Trench Warfare to a tee now.

PFF (now maybe YAC and the Fail Five will "get it").

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-week-6-2023

LOL at the Cowboys at 3 though. Typical PFF right there.

Sorry Hoov, it too is a paywall.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Are you trying to say some QB's escape pressure better than others?

Incredible!

Im saying elite QBs mask average/mediocre/bad lines..... QBs like mahomes

Short term, yes, an elite QB like an Andrew Luck will mask a bad offensive Line, but it will also cost the QB some health points in the long run. Andrew's bad OLine's contributed to his early retirement. I would not wish that future on Brock. I want him to play till he's 45.

I think that if you have a good OLine coach, like Foerster, you can get top of the line Offensive Line talent in the mid to late rounds and not have to spend a lot of high end first round draft capital on the OLine. The problem is that we didn't get Foerster until *after* the 2019 season. Banks, Brendel, McKivitz and Feliciano all have been impressive in my eyes. I wish we'd have gotten Feliciano when he was in his mid twenties though.

I am willing to bet that Luck contributed quite a bit to the pressure and sacks he faced. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head but I watched quite a few of his games and he had a tendency to hold onto the ball too long waiting for s**t to open up down field.

After checking out the numbers, Luck's O line seemed to get worse and worse every year. This is his average time to throw before being pressured every year he was in the league.

2012- 3.54s
2013- 3.42s
2014- 3.35s
2015- 3.30s
2016- 3.22s
2017- n/a
2018- 3.13s
2019- n/a

The first 4 years of his career weren't bad though. 3.30+ seconds is actually pretty good.

All average-league time. Usually as the OL's get worse, the faster the game plan. See Kyle's career here (2.56s for every QB).

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Chicago is 0-4

Here are some interesting names on that Chicago team. I wonder if (prior to the Trade deadline) the Chicago head coach gets fired, we can take a shot at one of these OLine guys.
Darnell wright,
Larry Borome
Tevan Jenkins.

it's very rare teams trade quality O-line guys

Trent Williams says why not?

Special case. Any elite O-lineman dealing with medical incompetence on their team?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
If they were elite, they'd easily be ranked in tier 1 by the SME's. And how can any reputable site rank them elite when they haven't been on the field together once in over two years? That's not to say IF they all were healthy and rolling, they do have elite talent and ability. It just hasn't been a reality in a number of years.

There is. They're in tier 1. Not many though. I haven't seen more than 2 in that tier 1 in a single year.

I wouldn't praise that approach yet given unit pass protection CLEARLY has been a big reason they haven't won #6 after 7 years of team control.

Hopefully this is the year though.

I can think of a couple bigger reasons.

It's crazy that people still don't see the difference between Jimmy and Purdy. The reason was freaking QB. If we had Purdy during these last 5-6 years we would've definitely won at least one SB.

Jimmy was a trade. Teams don't trade franchise QBs like Purdy, Brady, or Montana while they are at their peak. One reason Jimmy was let go is because he wasn't as good as Brady. Still, even Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl with a good OLine and defense. Point being, a good OLine makes things a lot easier for even tier 2 QBs to win games.

Jimmy was let go because Tom Brady wanted him gone. Belichick had Jimmy as the successor and Tom wasn't ready to hand it over.

Jimmy was let go because Robert Kraft wanted Tom to stay, and Belichick had to let Jimmy go. Belichick thought that Jimmy was the future and wanted to keep him. The *Owner* said no, Tom stays, and that's what happened.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Are you trying to say some QB's escape pressure better than others?

Incredible!

Im saying elite QBs mask average/mediocre/bad lines..... QBs like mahomes

Short term, yes, an elite QB like an Andrew Luck will mask a bad offensive Line, but it will also cost the QB some health points in the long run. Andrew's bad OLine's contributed to his early retirement. I would not wish that future on Brock. I want him to play till he's 45.

I think that if you have a good OLine coach, like Foerster, you can get top of the line Offensive Line talent in the mid to late rounds and not have to spend a lot of high end first round draft capital on the OLine. The problem is that we didn't get Foerster until *after* the 2019 season. Banks, Brendel, McKivitz and Feliciano all have been impressive in my eyes. I wish we'd have gotten Feliciano when he was in his mid twenties though.

I am willing to bet that Luck contributed quite a bit to the pressure and sacks he faced. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head but I watched quite a few of his games and he had a tendency to hold onto the ball too long waiting for s**t to open up down field.

After checking out the numbers, Luck's O line seemed to get worse and worse every year. This is his average time to throw before being pressured every year he was in the league.

2012- 3.54s
2013- 3.42s
2014- 3.35s
2015- 3.30s
2016- 3.22s
2017- n/a
2018- 3.13s
2019- n/a

The first 4 years of his career weren't bad though. 3.30+ seconds is actually pretty good.

I don't have time to pay attention to other teams too much, so I don't know in detail what happened to Andrew's offensive lines. The typical story line i read about Luck's early retirement was his bad OLines had something to do with it. I don't know too much else about his offense.

On the other hand, we had a great OLine coach in Bobb during the Dynasty years, Tom had a great OLine coach in Scarnecca with the Patriots during much of his super bowl wins. Good OLines paired with a Good QB creates a synergy that is a sum that is greater than its parts. A good OLine elevates a QB, a good QB elevates a good OLine. (Same with a Good RB/OLine) Point is, its a *team* game. Usually the *better team* wins the game. In 2019, 49ers had weaknesses in their OLine and defensive backfield compared to KC, and we lost.

Conceivably or Maybe, if we had a better OLine (Brunskill at guard instead of Person, Richburg at center vs Brunskill) we'd have had a better offensive team that could have held on to a slim lead in that last quarter. Of course, we won't ever know.