49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Just looking at the Eagles draft and how they built their Offensive Line.
...From their 2018 to their 2023 drafts...
2018 - two picks: a 6th round OT, a 7th round OT
2019 - one pick: a first round OT
2020 - two picks: a 4th round OT, a 6th round OT
2021 - one pick: 2nd round center
2022 - one pick: 2nd round center
2023 - one pick: 3rd round OT

Current Eagle starters on the OLine
Mailata - 7th round
Dickson - 2nd round
Kelce - 6th round
Jurgens - 2nd round
Johnson - undrafted.

My takeaway from this is that the Eagles have been stacking the talent on the OLine since 2018 and have invested multiple draft picks on the OLine several times. Eagles average starter round is round 5. So building the Eagles OLine, the Eagles have basically an OLine composed (on average) of 5th rounders. Eagles have consistently invested *every* year on the OLine.

In 2024, the 49ers have 9 draft picks. My hope is they use multiple draft picks on the OLine, specially at Trent Williams spot and also at the center spot and continue to invest in the OLine with regularity *every year* as the eagles did for the lifetime of Brock's Career. If the 49ers need additional draft capital, they should trade down a fourth or fifth round picks to generate more OLine picks in the later rounds - specially if 7th round picks can be kept for multiple years for developmental purposes. I hate these one year rentals and having to lose them the next year to free agency after they have done well in Kyle's offense. If the 49ers can basically throw away three first round picks on a bust QB, they can trade down 4th round picks to generate more draft capital in the later rounds.

And throw in the biggest piece...their OL coach is tier 1.

Coach Stoutland on Gap and Zone blocking. He's pretty detailed.

nice content. thanks.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
True Pass Set Pressure Rate rankings by True Pass Set Snaps.

I do want to give the PP a bit more credit here even though these appear pretty accurate even by the eye test.

Brock currently has a 2.81 TTT (NextGen) which is middle of the pack. Typically under Kyle, all of his QB's have been top 5 in fastest TTT...like Tagovailoa in Miami (#1 @ 2.36) rendering PP as moot as possible.

In addition, Brock is 12th in air yards @ 8.3. In short, by holding the ball longer, and attempting longer intermediate and deeper passes, it puts more stress on PP (the whole unit).

Context.

doesn't the chart reinforce what the pff chart showed? were mediocre. without brocks escapability and shanny's obsession with sub-2.5s time to throw, we'd be living in sh*tsville.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Ah...I have no idea what you are saying here. What are you saying here.

You replied to "offensive line stats" from 1 game,...then suggested they point to an overall problem with the TEAM.

How in the world do you do that? OL stats from 1 game are obscure enough.

IOW,...there may indeed be problems on the OL, but the stats you used to sure as hell can't point to it.

I think the more-likely case is you have made up in your mind that there is a problem,...and you're willing to take anything possible that you think could support it due to what you've already made up in your mind.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
doesn't the chart reinforce what the pff chart showed? were mediocre. without brocks escapability and shanny's obsession with sub-2.5s time to throw, we'd be living in sh*tsville.

Glad we don't have a statue. Not many of those are left in the NFL,...so I don't even want to envision it.

Kyle's "obsession" has spread like a wildfire across the league, btw. What he chooses to do has been mimicked across the league, and it's damn near impossible for him to keep coaches.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Just looking at the Eagles draft and how they built their Offensive Line.
...From their 2018 to their 2023 drafts...
2018 - two picks: a 6th round OT, a 7th round OT
2019 - one pick: a first round OT
2020 - two picks: a 4th round OT, a 6th round OT
2021 - one pick: 2nd round center
2022 - one pick: 2nd round center
2023 - one pick: 3rd round OT

Current Eagle starters on the OLine
Mailata - 7th round
Dickson - 2nd round
Kelce - 6th round
Jurgens - 2nd round
Johnson - undrafted.

My takeaway from this is that the Eagles have been stacking the talent on the OLine since 2018 and have invested multiple draft picks on the OLine several times. Eagles average starter round is round 5. So building the Eagles OLine, the Eagles have basically an OLine composed (on average) of 5th rounders. Eagles have consistently invested *every* year on the OLine.

In 2024, the 49ers have 9 draft picks. My hope is they use multiple draft picks on the OLine, specially at Trent Williams spot and also at the center spot and continue to invest in the OLine with regularity *every year* as the eagles did for the lifetime of Brock's Career. If the 49ers need additional draft capital, they should trade down a fourth or fifth round picks to generate more OLine picks in the later rounds - specially if 7th round picks can be kept for multiple years for developmental purposes. I hate these one year rentals and having to lose them the next year to free agency after they have done well in Kyle's offense. If the 49ers can basically throw away three first round picks on a bust QB, they can trade down 4th round picks to generate more draft capital in the later rounds.

And throw in the biggest piece...their OL coach is tier 1.

Coach Stoutland on Gap and Zone blocking. He's pretty detailed.

nice content. thanks.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
True Pass Set Pressure Rate rankings by True Pass Set Snaps.

I do want to give the PP a bit more credit here even though these appear pretty accurate even by the eye test.

Brock currently has a 2.81 TTT (NextGen) which is middle of the pack. Typically under Kyle, all of his QB's have been top 5 in fastest TTT...like Tagovailoa in Miami (#1 @ 2.36) rendering PP as moot as possible.

In addition, Brock is 12th in air yards @ 8.3. In short, by holding the ball longer, and attempting longer intermediate and deeper passes, it puts more stress on PP (the whole unit).

Context.

doesn't the chart reinforce what the pff chart showed? were mediocre. without brocks escapability and shanny's obsession with sub-2.5s time to throw, we'd be living in sh*tsville.

The good news is Brock is a right handed QB and a large majority of the pressure comes from the two players that happen to play in his line of sight.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Ah...I have no idea what you are saying here. What are you saying here.

You replied to "offensive line stats" from 1 game,...then suggested they point to an overall problem with the TEAM.

How in the world do you do that? OL stats from 1 game are obscure enough.

IOW,...there may indeed be problems on the OL, but the stats you used to sure as hell can't point to it.

I think the more-likely case is you have made up in your mind that there is a problem,...and you're willing to take anything possible that you think could support it due to what you've already made up in your mind.

I see. Yes, the stats are from one game. From that one game, it shows that offensive line pblk wasn't very good from Feliciano, Banks, and McKivitz.

How is this "willing to take anything possible?" The stats are from one game that reinforce my (and others) contention. If we had the same stats from other games, we might see similar numbers.

Are you an AI bot?

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Ah...I have no idea what you are saying here. What are you saying here.

You replied to "offensive line stats" from 1 game,...then suggested they point to an overall problem with the TEAM.

How in the world do you do that? OL stats from 1 game are obscure enough.

IOW,...there may indeed be problems on the OL, but the stats you used to sure as hell can't point to it.

I think the more-likely case is you have made up in your mind that there is a problem,...and you're willing to take anything possible that you think could support it due to what you've already made up in your mind.

I see. Yes, the stats are from one game. From that one game, it shows that offensive line pblk wasn't very good from Feliciano, Banks, and McKivitz.

How is this "willing to take anything possible?" The stats are from one game that reinforce my (and others) contention. If we had the same stats from other games, we might see similar numbers.

Are you an AI bot?

StalkerBot. I have a few of those.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
True Pass Set Pressure Rate rankings by True Pass Set Snaps.

I do want to give the PP a bit more credit here even though these appear pretty accurate even by the eye test.

Brock currently has a 2.81 TTT (NextGen) which is middle of the pack. Typically under Kyle, all of his QB's have been top 5 in fastest TTT...like Tagovailoa in Miami (#1 @ 2.36) rendering PP as moot as possible.

In addition, Brock is 12th in air yards @ 8.3. In short, by holding the ball longer, and attempting longer intermediate and deeper passes, it puts more stress on PP (the whole unit).

Context.

doesn't the chart reinforce what the pff chart showed? were mediocre. without brocks escapability and shanny's obsession with sub-2.5s time to throw, we'd be living in sh*tsville.

It does. I was just providing some context and a difference from year's past.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Ah...I have no idea what you are saying here. What are you saying here.

You replied to "offensive line stats" from 1 game,...then suggested they point to an overall problem with the TEAM.

How in the world do you do that? OL stats from 1 game are obscure enough.

IOW,...there may indeed be problems on the OL, but the stats you used to sure as hell can't point to it.

I think the more-likely case is you have made up in your mind that there is a problem,...and you're willing to take anything possible that you think could support it due to what you've already made up in your mind.

I see. Yes, the stats are from one game. From that one game, it shows that offensive line pblk wasn't very good from Feliciano, Banks, and McKivitz.

How is this "willing to take anything possible?" The stats are from one game that reinforce my (and others) contention. If we had the same stats from other games, we might see similar numbers.

Are you an AI bot?

StalkerBot. I have a few of those.

I hear Taylor Swift has the same problem.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
True Pass Set Pressure Rate rankings by True Pass Set Snaps.

I do want to give the PP a bit more credit here even though these appear pretty accurate even by the eye test.

Brock currently has a 2.81 TTT (NextGen) which is middle of the pack. Typically under Kyle, all of his QB's have been top 5 in fastest TTT...like Tagovailoa in Miami (#1 @ 2.36) rendering PP as moot as possible.

In addition, Brock is 12th in air yards @ 8.3. In short, by holding the ball longer, and attempting longer intermediate and deeper passes, it puts more stress on PP (the whole unit).

Context.

I agree....that passes the eye test....

There is time to throw (subjective, how long till pressure effects the QB) and time till throw, the latter tracks from snap to throw what the actual time is.

Brock's time till throw (according to FantasyPros) is 2.6 seconds, that is way up from earlier in the season when he was at floating between 2.2 and 2.3 for like half the season. That more or less tracks with the eyeball test. Early in the season we were all commenting how we are not seeing rolls to the left or right or anything.

No one in the NFL has as many 20-30-40-50 combine completions. Brock is tied for 13th for completions 10 yards or less. He is 2nd in 20+, 2nd in 30+, 1st in 40+ and 10th in 50+ ( he has 2 and there are 9 people that are tied with 3) He simply is not looking short, and is holding onto the ball.

Brock does invite pressure looking deep...but for the most part it is working.

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
True Pass Set Pressure Rate rankings by True Pass Set Snaps.

I do want to give the PP a bit more credit here even though these appear pretty accurate even by the eye test.

Brock currently has a 2.81 TTT (NextGen) which is middle of the pack. Typically under Kyle, all of his QB's have been top 5 in fastest TTT...like Tagovailoa in Miami (#1 @ 2.36) rendering PP as moot as possible.

In addition, Brock is 12th in air yards @ 8.3. In short, by holding the ball longer, and attempting longer intermediate and deeper passes, it puts more stress on PP (the whole unit).

Context.

I agree....that passes the eye test....

There is time to throw (subjective, how long till pressure effects the QB) and time till throw, the latter tracks from snap to throw what the actual time is.

Brock's time till throw (according to FantasyPros) is 2.6 seconds, that is way up from earlier in the season when he was at floating between 2.2 and 2.3 for like half the season. That more or less tracks with the eyeball test. Early in the season we were all commenting how we are not seeing rolls to the left or right or anything.

No one in the NFL has as many 20-30-40-50 combine completions. Brock is tied for 13th for completions 10 yards or less. He is 2nd in 20+, 2nd in 30+, 1st in 40+ and 10th in 50+ ( he has 2 and there are 9 people that are tied with 3) He simply is not looking short, and is holding onto the ball.

Brock does invite pressure looking deep...but for the most part it is working.

Agree💯%, it makes sense that Brock is going for the gusto by throwing longer. His accuracy is insane. It's Drew Brees level.

Two approaches that I'm just contemplating. (1) Does Kyle *force* Brock to throw shorter to preserve Brock's career - in a sense - by having him throw quicker before the pass rush gets to him and possibly subject him to more serious injuries. (i.e. choosing the checkdown vs tossing the TD to Aiyuk between four defenders). Or (2) does Kyle *draft bigger stronger OLInemen* that cost more draft Capital, to protect him because Brock wants to throw deeper? Personally, I'd go with the latter and still do my best to encourage Brock to take the shorter quicker pass, to avoid those Riddick-like hits that might injure him or shorten his career. I wouldn't want to cramp Brock's nature - specially with his insane accuracy by limiting him with smaller OLinemen that can't pass protect him on the longer pass plays. I'm guessing this is where Kyle is heading - Trent, Banks, and Feliciano are all larger than the typical 300 lb OLinemen that Kyle likes.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree💯%, it makes sense that Brock is going for the gusto by throwing longer. His accuracy is insane. It's Drew Brees level.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
True Pass Set Pressure Rate rankings by True Pass Set Snaps.

I do want to give the PP a bit more credit here even though these appear pretty accurate even by the eye test.

Brock currently has a 2.81 TTT (NextGen) which is middle of the pack. Typically under Kyle, all of his QB's have been top 5 in fastest TTT...like Tagovailoa in Miami (#1 @ 2.36) rendering PP as moot as possible.

In addition, Brock is 12th in air yards @ 8.3. In short, by holding the ball longer, and attempting longer intermediate and deeper passes, it puts more stress on PP (the whole unit).

Context.

I agree....that passes the eye test....

There is time to throw (subjective, how long till pressure effects the QB) and time till throw, the latter tracks from snap to throw what the actual time is.

Brock's time till throw (according to FantasyPros) is 2.6 seconds, that is way up from earlier in the season when he was at floating between 2.2 and 2.3 for like half the season. That more or less tracks with the eyeball test. Early in the season we were all commenting how we are not seeing rolls to the left or right or anything.

No one in the NFL has as many 20-30-40-50 combine completions. Brock is tied for 13th for completions 10 yards or less. He is 2nd in 20+, 2nd in 30+, 1st in 40+ and 10th in 50+ ( he has 2 and there are 9 people that are tied with 3) He simply is not looking short, and is holding onto the ball.

Brock does invite pressure looking deep...but for the most part it is working.

Agree💯%, it makes sense that Brock is going for the gusto by throwing longer. His accuracy is insane. It's Drew Brees level.

Just FYI

Brees Last full season he hit 74% of his throws. He had 58 20+ throws, 18 30+ throws, 6 40+ throws.

Compared to a partial season by Brock hitting 70% of his throws with 43 20+ throws, 17 30+throws, 7 40+ throws.

Unless Brock goes down odds are he is going to have more deeper throws than Brees, he already has as many 50+ yard throws...they both have 2, he has more 40+ throws already and will likely have significantly more 30+ yard throws.

I love the opportunities our offense creates. I'd suggest tho to throw out the stats and just watch both guys play. Brock is not anywhere close to the precision passer Drew Brees was in his prime. And neither was Brett Favre,...so that's ok.

Originally posted by random49er:
I love the opportunities our offense creates. I'd suggest tho to throw out the stats and just watch both guys play. Brock is not anywhere close to the precision passer Drew Brees was in his prime. And neither was Brett Favre,...so that's ok.

Do you think Brock has reached his ceiling?