49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Alfienator:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Alfienator:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Alfienator:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is what I've been saying for YEARS. It's not just unit pass protection issues. It's WHEN this team has to play off script when the lack of talent is exposed (e.g. when it's a predictable passing set).

Offensive pass blocking in expected passing situations based on pressure rate allowed (x-axis) and time to pressure allowed (y-axis) pic.twitter.com/aE8ONULWLy

— Arjun Menon (@arjunmenon100) November 27, 2023

it's in the title and the tweet, but this is only looking at expected passing situations, not all dropbacks. So think basically when a team is trailing, in 2nd and long, 3rd down, etc.

— Arjun Menon (@arjunmenon100) November 27, 2023

AND as we have told you for years an elite QB can make the o line look better. Proof is right there. Brock is clearly elevating the O line.

Seeing Miami and their quick throw offense number one shows those numbers also lack some context.

An athletic and tier 1 QB and scheme can absolutely mask a lot. Nobody has ever questioned that.

The issue is, "To what degree?"

IF the goal is to win a SuperBowl, this will cost you in the end just like it did with Mahomes.

You did question that though. Multiple debates with you regarding this.

LOL.

Only the degree. There's been a surge in athletic QB's over the years but very few ever reached a tier 1 level. The good-enough crowd only had Mahomes to pivot too and that proved false too...to a degree. I'm restating that here WITH Brock Purdy + Kyle's scheme.

People quickly forget last year that we lost 3 QBs excluding Trey because that was just a dumb play. I'm pretty sure a better oline would've significantly prevented that.

Nah. Whatever the FO does or doesn't do no matter how years of evidence is clearly the good-enough answer for winning SuperBowls.

Where are we at now? Quest for eight?

why lie, in no way did our QBs get hurt due to the OL lol

in no way did we lose the past championships games due to OL

stop the BS

Oh yeah, the good ole non contact injury. The team is stacked and they should draft the weakest area which is the Oline.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Playaction helps Purdy. Why would they decrease it?

My hypothesis is that it has nothing to do with Purdy, it has to do with how defenses have changed from a league wide perspective. With the way the league has moved to more Quarters, playaction does not help as much with opening up the area behind the LBs. I'm talking specifically about when the 49ers use playaction, then target the intermediate area behind the LBs and in front of the safeties. It has to do with how Quarters safeties line up at shallow depth (compared to Cover2 and Cover3) and also with how in many variations of Quarters, the safeties have a run fit - whereas Cover2 and Cover3 deep safeties do not have a run fit.

Let's use Cover3 as an example of how playaction works very well. The three players in deep zones in a Cover3 do not have a run fit. They will not honor playaction since their goal is to not get beat deep. So playaction, all 8 box defenders (LBs) creep towards the LoS, while the deep zones do not creep towards the LoS. This opens up the area behind the LBs, and in front of the deep zone guys. When the craze was the Seattle Cover3, playaction made sense to screw with the 8 box defenders.

In Quarters, the two deep safeties play shallow - this is a characteristic of Quarters - about 10-12 yards behind the LoS. This is not deep compared to Cover2 safeties, and Cover3 deep middle safety. So playaction, the two Quarters safeties creep from 12 yards back to 10 depth. All playaction did was compress the area behind the LBs and in front of the Quarters safeties. And if that's the area the 49ers want to target intermediate routes, playaction does not help. Where playaction would help versus Quarters safeties is when you want to attack deep. But most of the explosives and mini-explosives for the 49ers are in the intermediate areas.

Is this how they defend us exclusively because looking at the playaction dropback %, it looks like a majority of the NFL has increased their playaction % over the years.

2016


2019


2021


2023

What are those stats saying? Drop back % of playaction? It could be that Jimmy saw more 8 man boxes so playaction works better in those situations. We know Jimmy targets over the middle a lot so that might explain a little bit of why Brock uses less playaction.

Yes. The % of dropbacks that were playaction. I posted these charts to demonstrate that the % of dropbacks that have been playaction has increased over the years league wide. Which contradicts your theory about coverage trends and how they may be related to playaction use. Jimmy had nothing to do with why I posted those charts.

Originally posted by Alfienator:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is what I've been saying for YEARS. It's not just unit pass protection issues. It's WHEN this team has to play off script when the lack of talent is exposed (e.g. when it's a predictable passing set).

Offensive pass blocking in expected passing situations based on pressure rate allowed (x-axis) and time to pressure allowed (y-axis) pic.twitter.com/aE8ONULWLy

— Arjun Menon (@arjunmenon100) November 27, 2023

it's in the title and the tweet, but this is only looking at expected passing situations, not all dropbacks. So think basically when a team is trailing, in 2nd and long, 3rd down, etc.

— Arjun Menon (@arjunmenon100) November 27, 2023

AND as we have told you for years an elite QB can make the o line look better. Proof is right there. Brock is clearly elevating the O line.

Seeing Miami and their quick throw offense number one shows those numbers also lack some context.

An athletic and tier 1 QB and scheme can absolutely mask a lot. Nobody has ever questioned that.

The issue is, "To what degree?"

IF the goal is to win a SuperBowl, this will cost you in the end just like it did with Mahomes.

You did question that though. Multiple debates with you regarding this.

LOL.

Only the degree. There's been a surge in athletic QB's over the years but very few ever reached a tier 1 level. The good-enough crowd only had Mahomes to pivot too and that proved false too...to a degree. I'm restating that here WITH Brock Purdy + Kyle's scheme.

People quickly forget last year that we lost 3 QBs excluding Trey because that was just a dumb play. I'm pretty sure a better oline would've significantly prevented that.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Playaction helps Purdy. Why would they decrease it?

My hypothesis is that it has nothing to do with Purdy, it has to do with how defenses have changed from a league wide perspective. With the way the league has moved to more Quarters, playaction does not help as much with opening up the area behind the LBs. I'm talking specifically about when the 49ers use playaction, then target the intermediate area behind the LBs and in front of the safeties. It has to do with how Quarters safeties line up at shallow depth (compared to Cover2 and Cover3) and also with how in many variations of Quarters, the safeties have a run fit - whereas Cover2 and Cover3 deep safeties do not have a run fit.

Let's use Cover3 as an example of how playaction works very well. The three players in deep zones in a Cover3 do not have a run fit. They will not honor playaction since their goal is to not get beat deep. So playaction, all 8 box defenders (LBs) creep towards the LoS, while the deep zones do not creep towards the LoS. This opens up the area behind the LBs, and in front of the deep zone guys. When the craze was the Seattle Cover3, playaction made sense to screw with the 8 box defenders.

In Quarters, the two deep safeties play shallow - this is a characteristic of Quarters - about 10-12 yards behind the LoS. This is not deep compared to Cover2 safeties, and Cover3 deep middle safety. So playaction, the two Quarters safeties creep from 12 yards back to 10 depth. All playaction did was compress the area behind the LBs and in front of the Quarters safeties. And if that's the area the 49ers want to target intermediate routes, playaction does not help. Where playaction would help versus Quarters safeties is when you want to attack deep. But most of the explosives and mini-explosives for the 49ers are in the intermediate areas.

Is this how they defend us exclusively because looking at the playaction dropback %, it looks like a majority of the NFL has increased their playaction % over the years.

2016


2019


2021


2023

What are those stats saying? Drop back % of playaction? It could be that Jimmy saw more 8 man boxes so playaction works better in those situations. We know Jimmy targets over the middle a lot so that might explain a little bit of why Brock uses less playaction.

Yes. The % of dropbacks that were playaction. I posted these charts to demonstrate that the % of dropbacks that have been playaction has increased over the years league wide. Which contradicts your theory about coverage trends and how they may be related to playaction use. Jimmy had nothing to do with why I posted those charts.

Yeah just a hypothesis (not a theory) about how playaction doesn't work as well versus Quarters. In my mind it makes sense. I guess it doesn't play out in the stats. The rise of Quarters really started to take place in 2020. Maybe even 2019.

Didn't mean to bring up Jimmy, but I was referring to how Brock uses less playaction than Jimmy. I think that's what the stats say. Not sure.

Originally posted by thl408:
Yeah just a hypothesis (not a theory) about how playaction doesn't work as well versus Quarters. In my mind it makes sense. I guess it doesn't play out in the stats. The rise of Quarters really started to take place in 2020. Maybe even 2019.

Didn't mean to bring up Jimmy, but I was referring to how Brock uses less playaction than Jimmy. I think that's what the stats say. Not sure.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I certainly think a better OLine would have helped. Its a team game, you need every part as strong as it can be to win a championship. I mean Mahomes had a different OLine in the Superbowl and when he played the Eagles this year, he lost by 4 points.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Both can be true despite your B/W world.

Originally posted by Alfienator:
People quickly forget last year that we lost 3 QBs excluding Trey because that was just a dumb play. I'm pretty sure a better oline would've significantly prevented that.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Alfienator:
People quickly forget last year that we lost 3 QBs excluding Trey because that was just a dumb play. I'm pretty sure a better oline would've significantly prevented that.

NC couldn't stop praising the job the Bengals did upgrading their O line and whadda know Joe Burrow is out the year.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Alfienator:
People quickly forget last year that we lost 3 QBs excluding Trey because that was just a dumb play. I'm pretty sure a better oline would've significantly prevented that.

NC couldn't stop praising the job the Bengals did upgrading their O line and whadda know Joe Burrow is out the year.

Originally posted by mitpdub:
Burrows wrist injury was caused by getting hit or throwing? I do think that line is improved, it was really bad previous years.

Originally posted by mitpdub:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Alfienator:
People quickly forget last year that we lost 3 QBs excluding Trey because that was just a dumb play. I'm pretty sure a better oline would've significantly prevented that.

NC couldn't stop praising the job the Bengals did upgrading their O line and whadda know Joe Burrow is out the year.

Burrows wrist injury was caused by getting hit or throwing? I do think that line is improved, it was really bad previous years.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by mitpdub:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Alfienator:
People quickly forget last year that we lost 3 QBs excluding Trey because that was just a dumb play. I'm pretty sure a better oline would've significantly prevented that.

NC couldn't stop praising the job the Bengals did upgrading their O line and whadda know Joe Burrow is out the year.

Burrows wrist injury was caused by getting hit or throwing? I do think that line is improved, it was really bad previous years.

Bengals o line is neck and neck with ours this season in pass pro. Both in that tier 4 range.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Bengals o line is neck and neck with ours this season in pass pro. Both in that tier 4 range.