49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Untrue. I will praise any team that makes every effort to upgrade their OL...Lions, Ravens, Chiefs, Bengals, Philly, Cowboys, etc. That isn't a guarantee it'll work out. It's taken Lynch 7 years to finally get the DL he's wanted. 7.

I prefer to praise the right decisions rather than just giving it the ol College try.

Had the DL he wanted in 2019. One of the guys just couldn't stay healthy.

Dont disagree but injuries have been a big part of this regimes story.

LOL. Understatement there. 31st in health over the past 7 years. That said this is the healthiest we've been so don't want to jinx it.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Why? You've given Lynch 7 years and he's failed miserably along the ways on the DL. QB too. Health is also on Lynch and he's failed there just as badly. You give him a ton of passes so why would you fault a team trying to improve a crucial unit in front of their QB?

Some teams hit on it like KC did to win another SuperBowl. Some tried like Cincy and it hasn't worked out yet. Some hardly try at all. Like secondary.

So if you don't win the SB the way you have built every part of your roster is a failure? That makes zero sense.

If you spend big money on a guy and he doesn't produce that's a failure. The money is the important part. Draft picks will succeed or fail. But you can't blow your FA dollars.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Jaguars pass pro I imagine will start to fall now that they lost their starting LT for the season.

Baalke knows how to build the lines.

NC as a GM be like....

LMAO. Not a bad way to start building a franchise. HOF generational G. Unless the QB is there, of course.

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. Understatement there. 31st in health over the past 7 years. That said this is the healthiest we've been so don't want to jinx it.

What changed about the scheme this year that has kept them all healthy? Surely with all your in depth research you have the answers.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Why? You've given Lynch 7 years and he's failed miserably along the ways on the DL. QB too. Health is also on Lynch and he's failed there just as badly. You give him a ton of passes so why would you fault a team trying to improve a crucial unit in front of their QB?

Some teams hit on it like KC did to win another SuperBowl. Some tried like Cincy and it hasn't worked out yet. Some hardly try at all. Like secondary.

So if you don't win the SB the way you have built every part of your roster is a failure? That makes zero sense.

If you spend big money on a guy and he doesn't produce that's a failure. The money is the important part. Draft picks will succeed or fail. But you can't blow your FA dollars.

Yes, yes and yes.

I hate to break the news to you but if you don't win a Superbowl, those 31 teams failed at their overall goal.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't live in a singular world like you. I've said 1,000 times it was a colossal collapse from the QB to Kyle to ST at the end. So pick any order of importance to want. You're not going to be wrong on any order.

But you do. Because you keep saying "it has cost us".

This is all projection. All of us have routinely said it's a blame pie. We just feel Jimmy shouldered the most blame. But he ALONE didn't cost us.

To say you aren't wrong in any order is absurd. There is always a blame pie. It's never completely equal. ANd you don't actually believe it's equal. You put the majority of the blame on the OL. It's why you were on here moments after the SB patting yourself on back.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. Understatement there. 31st in health over the past 7 years. That said this is the healthiest we've been so don't want to jinx it.

What changed about the scheme this year that has kept them all healthy? Surely with all your in depth research you have the answers.

Well, OL (Williams, Banks, Burford, McKivitz) and RB's (CMC, Mitchell) are still getting hurt. Deebo. Ray-Ray. Kittle. So nothing new. They just haven't had season ending I.R. losses and most have been able to rejoin after a couple weeks. So nothing really other then the longevity.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes, yes and yes.

I hate to break the news to you but if you don't win a Superbowl, those 31 teams failed at their overall goal.

Thats a team goal. But an individual unit can be a success even if the team didn't accomplish it's goal.

The Browns defense is absolutely a success this year no matter what happens as a team.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't live in a singular world like you. I've said 1,000 times it was a colossal collapse from the QB to Kyle to ST at the end. So pick any order of importance to want. You're not going to be wrong on any order.

But you do. Because you keep saying "it has cost us".

This is all projection. All of us have routinely said it's a blame pie. We just feel Jimmy shouldered the most blame. But he ALONE didn't cost us.

To say you aren't wrong in any order is absurd. There is always a blame pie. It's never completely equal. ANd you don't actually believe it's equal. You put the majority of the blame on the OL. It's why you were on here moments after the SB patting yourself on back.

Of course. We had a 10 point lead with 7 minutes to go so ANY QB or unit that played a tad better might have been the difference in 1 defensive stop, TO or first down to close out the game. Draw a straw.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes, yes and yes.

I hate to break the news to you but if you don't win a Superbowl, those 31 teams failed at their overall goal.

Thats a team goal. But an individual unit can be a success even if the team didn't accomplish it's goal.

The Browns defense is absolutely a success this year no matter what happens as a team.

Now you understand my frustration with OL. Haha.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Well, OL (Williams, Banks, Burford, McKivitz) and RB's (CMC, Mitchell) are still getting hurt. Deebo. Ray-Ray. Kittle. So nothing new. They just haven't had season ending I.R. losses and most have been able to rejoin after a couple weeks. So nothing really other then the longevity.

I see. So the scheme caused Williams to have his ankle rolled up on. Or for Banks to get turf toe.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Why? You've given Lynch 7 years and he's failed miserably along the ways on the DL. QB too. Health is also on Lynch and he's failed there just as badly. You give him a ton of passes so why would you fault a team trying to improve a crucial unit in front of their QB?

Some teams hit on it like KC did to win another SuperBowl. Some tried like Cincy and it hasn't worked out yet. Some hardly try at all. Like secondary.

So if you don't win the SB the way you have built every part of your roster is a failure? That makes zero sense.

If you spend big money on a guy and he doesn't produce that's a failure. The money is the important part. Draft picks will succeed or fail. But you can't blow your FA dollars.

Seems like a pretty singular way of looking at things.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Of course. We had a 10 point lead with 7 minutes to go so ANY QB or unit that played a tad better might have been the difference in 1 defensive stop, TO or first down to close out the game. Draw a straw.

So then you should never be in here criticizing the OL as everyone is to blame for every loss equally.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Well, OL (Williams, Banks, Burford, McKivitz) and RB's (CMC, Mitchell) are still getting hurt. Deebo. Ray-Ray. Kittle. So nothing new. They just haven't had season ending I.R. losses and most have been able to rejoin after a couple weeks. So nothing really other then the longevity.

I see. So the scheme caused Williams to have his ankle rolled up on. Or for Banks to get turf toe.

Define how you want to. When you can predict it annually that's a pretty cemented annual pattern within this scheme.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
To a certain extent, I somewhat agree with you. OLinemen are different from DLinemen in that OLinemen depend on the guy next to them to do their job, whereas, DLinemen can each disrupt a play all by themselves. They can, in a sense, be plug and play from the git-go. OLinemen, on the other hand, need a ton of reps to be on the same page with each other, or there will be breakdowns in passing a defender to the other guy to pick up stunts (for example). So say you get a Rashaun Slater, he'll need at least half a season (if not more) to be truly integrated into the Kyle Shanahan complicated zone/gap blocking system.

Still, I do advocate stacking the OLine talent. This one year rental deal (Feliciano and Pryor) kind of eliminates that timing and synchronicity that you develop as both players (or most of the offensive players) play together for a long time. Example: Purdy and Aiyuk and how they developed their chemistry over a long period of playing together. It should be the same with the offensive line.

Which is why I expect them to address the T position in this years draft. Hopefully an interior guy will be available for a value selection as well.

What you dont do is spend big FA money just to "stack talent" You spend it on guys you think will fit at a smart price point (Charvarius Ward). You don't overpay for mediocrity just to do it to show you are doing something. The Ryan Pace syndrome.

Good point about overpaying in free agency. I agree. If you go the free agent route in getting offensive linemen, yes you will overpay. I agree you will also overpay if you get a defensive player - Hargrave for example - but they are plug and play, whereas a OLineman like Rashaun will take some time to develop/integrate.

But, I'd rather overplay for an offensive lineman for depth, as you said (I think) in an earlier post, because of the fact that OLine health is a premium for Kyle's offense. I.e. they tend to get more injured than the average OLine (or at least it seems that way to me). So to me, stacking the OLine talent is *both* getting some decent free agents and also drafting. I don't mind the Feliciano and Pryor free agents - that was fine, what I wasn't fine with was the Camron Latu pick - that should have been an OLine pick in my opinion.