49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:
Scheme is one of the theories/components. The truth is (Edit: whatever's inserted here is a personal truth!)

FWIW,... a theory is not anything close to being a component. One is just an idea,...the other is a verified, provable part of something.

Originally posted by random49er:
FWIW,... a theory is not anything close to being a component. One is just an idea,...the other is a verified, provable part of something.

Ships disappear so there must be a Bermuda Triangle

What evidence do you have that that area is the primary cause?

Ships are disappearing there.

All it really is.

Originally posted by bassmanr:
Very good points and agree. Hope Kyle can find more stronger agile Olineman like TW, who is a unicorn 🦄..So it's going to be hard to do but hopefully he can. Another good point, Latu was not needed more than Olineman to develope.

I mean finding HOF lineman isn't exactly easy.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by random49er:
FWIW,... a theory is not anything close to being a component. One is just an idea,...the other is a verified, provable part of something.

Ships disappear so there must be a Bermuda Triangle

What evidence do you have that that area is the primary cause?

Ships are disappearing there.

All it really is.

100 years prove they disappear !

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by random49er:
FWIW,... a theory is not anything close to being a component. One is just an idea,...the other is a verified, provable part of something.

Ships disappear so there must be a Bermuda Triangle

What evidence do you have that that area is the primary cause?

Ships are disappearing there.

All it really is.

That place (Burmuda Triangle) is where hurricanes just pop up. I.e. if you look at where the gulf hurricanes generally come from, they come from the Burmuda Triangle area. Weather can change in an instant in that area. One hour it's great weather, but it can change in an instant, and in the next hour it's stormy. That area is always having some sort of storm or hurricanes. I think one of the Miami college teams are named after the Hurricane weather phenomenon. So I don't think it's any more complicated than that - it's a place where there are a lot of weird stormy weather.

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. Understatement there. 31st in health over the past 7 years. That said this is the healthiest we've been so don't want to jinx it.

What changed about the scheme this year that has kept them all healthy? Surely with all your in depth research you have the answers.

Well, OL (Williams, Banks, Burford, McKivitz) and RB's (CMC, Mitchell) are still getting hurt. Deebo. Ray-Ray. Kittle. So nothing new. They just haven't had season ending I.R. losses and most have been able to rejoin after a couple weeks. So nothing really other then the longevity.

Agree and I'll just add that in 2020 I think the 49ers had 9 games on astro-turf. It was one of the most injury riddled teams in Kyle's tenure. Right now, I'm looking (for the whole season) at around 3-ish games or so, on astro turf, the rest, including the upcoming Eagle's game is on natural grass.

It's convenient to ignore this though. Ignoring the neglect on the OL is parallel to the same crowd ignoring our outlier injury trends too. #BlindFaith

yeah, I've stated before - and to make my point I'll briefly summarize - I think Kyle thinks he can get away with smaller OLinemen because of scheme (the outside zone) because he needs more athleticism vs power at the point of attack. The outside zone run requires the Running back to draw the DLine one way or another at the point of attack, and cut/accelerate against that tendency for yardage. So he (in a sense) needs athletic OLinemen to simply screen the DLinemen instead of actually blocking them at the point of attack. You need a certain amount of agility and acceleration vs power with that kind of run game system - so he tends to favor smaller offensive linemen.

My point: the problem with smaller OLinemen going against bigger DLinemen is the loads on the tendons, muscles and bones. Structurally the bigger the more it can take the stress, the lesser, the less (whether it be bones, tendons, or muscles) stress it can take. So - basically - smaller OLinemen (all else being equal) will tend to get injured MORE than bigger OLinemen. So the key for Kyle is to have a stock of good OLinemen around to plug and play when one of them gets injured. So when Richburg went down, he didn't have enough OLine depth to shore up the Right Guard and hence Person got dominated by Chris jones. That's why I was so upset about the Camron Latu pick, that should have been a OLine pick, for depth and health reasons.

Very good points and agree. Hope Kyle can find more stronger agile Olineman like TW, who is a unicorn 🦄..So it's going to be hard to do but hopefully he can. Another good point, Latu was not needed more than Olineman to develope.

I just took a gander at the 2024 Offensive lineman crop at the Webzone draft threads. It looks like this year is shaping up to be a good crop of OLinemen. So says the draft nerds. Add in the fact that the 49ers finally have a first round pick. So good odds that they can finally find that Trent Williams 2.0 Unicorn. But as you said, *its hard to do.* 49ers are notorious for flunking their first round picks. <sigh>

Having said that, there is hope for me in that Kyle isn't a dummy and he knows how important the OLine is to his offense. Foerster has done some miracle OLine development in Brunskill and Compton, and so I hope he still has some magic left and hasn't run out of mana to work his OLine miracles. We'll need it for the Eagles game and the playoffs.

Uh oh. 4 straight blocked posts by Random...the injury topic must have come up. Ha.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by random49er:
FWIW,... a theory is not anything close to being a component. One is just an idea,...the other is a verified, provable part of something.

Ships disappear so there must be a Bermuda Triangle

What evidence do you have that that area is the primary cause?

Ships are disappearing there.

All it really is.

100 years prove they disappear !

Now you are ignoring 100 years of evidence (end results). Shocker.

Please ignore.

Well, NC, the saving grace of this offensive line is that - it seems from the graphs you posted - this OLine is a good run blocking OLine. Now whether it's 50% OLine and 50% CMC, is another matter. Another saving grace is that Kyle's called a balanced run-pass game and it's hard for a DLine to tee off on Purdy - specially if the 49ers are ahead. Other than that, from the passing game point of view, those graphs saying 49ers are mediocre does meet my eye test unfortunately. Unfortunately, if the 49ers are behind, this OLine isn't going to be able to pass protect and generate a come from behind win.

With Banks back (and hopefully healthy), I think the left side of the line is decent to good. The problem is the right side. Basically a *rookie* in a sense (McKivitz) and a 2nd year player (Burford) and a swing free agent replacement player (Feliciano) man the right side and haven't really dominated much in games. Our center is decent, but not a hall of fame level player that the kind the Eagles have.

So basically, if the 49ers fall behind the opposition, this OLine and our QB is toast. It seems Kyle is confident (or arrogant) enough to say "I'm such a good playcaller that I'll never fall behind and that's how I'll win games." <sigh>

Why Burford should stay on bench.

Brock is clearly elevating the O line. What elite QBs do.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Why Burford should stay on bench.

Brock is clearly elevating the O line. What elite QBs do.

Well his quick time to throw and the strong run game does help. The *dot* pass TD to Aiyuk was a play action pass, and McKivitz was beaten by the defensive end and Purdy still got the pass off and Aiyuk came down with the TD. So he's definitely elevating the OLine.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is what I've been saying for YEARS. It's not just unit pass protection issues. It's WHEN this team has to play off script when the lack of talent is exposed (e.g. when it's a predictable passing set).

Offensive pass blocking in expected passing situations based on pressure rate allowed (x-axis) and time to pressure allowed (y-axis) pic.twitter.com/aE8ONULWLy

— Arjun Menon (@arjunmenon100) November 27, 2023

it's in the title and the tweet, but this is only looking at expected passing situations, not all dropbacks. So think basically when a team is trailing, in 2nd and long, 3rd down, etc.

— Arjun Menon (@arjunmenon100) November 27, 2023

AND as we have told you for years an elite QB can make the o line look better. Proof is right there. Brock is clearly elevating the O line.

Seeing Miami and their quick throw offense number one shows those numbers also lack some context.

An athletic and tier 1 QB and scheme can absolutely mask a lot. Nobody has ever questioned that.

The issue is, "To what degree?"

IF the goal is to win a SuperBowl, this will cost you in the end just like it did with Mahomes.

You did question that though. Multiple debates with you regarding this.

LOL.

Only the degree. There's been a surge in athletic QB's over the years but very few ever reached a tier 1 level. The good-enough crowd only had Mahomes to pivot too and that proved false too...to a degree. I'm restating that here WITH Brock Purdy + Kyle's scheme.

If you still think this is good enough and Brock + scheme can transcend it in the end, more power to you.

This team is definitely good enough to win it all.. best overall roster in the league. Even most talking heads agree with that.

You also keep mentioning Pat losing the SB bc OL but don't mention that he had like 3 starters missing or injured heading into that game.

If we lose Trent though, I will say we can't win it all anymore.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
NC as a GM be like....

That'd be his first pick no doubt no matter who else is available.

he then would blame everyone else that we don't have tier 1 skill players

You need both

My man!

Then the reality of cap space and u only have 7 rounds to draft kick in.

Glad you have faithful and 9moon to agree with you, great company 😂

Kittle will need to help on the right side a lot this game.