49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
PS: ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶O̶L̶ Outsider opinions started as 19th and have slowly been climbing.

Corrected

Going from 19th to 7th isin't a sign of "improving steadily." This is the fake bill of goods sold here that -- scarily -- some here continue to buy.

It's a sign of flat-out being wrong, and/or swinging "rankings" whichever way the team is currently doing.

When we win the SB, the O line will magically be teir 1 all by themselves.

7th is pretty damn good. They're playing really good ball, hence why this thread has been so quiet. There's still several weeks to go too.

I don't know if they'll make tier 1 by the end of the year but it's going to be close. Add an MVP QB to that play and you've got really good odds.

You originally said a tier 1 QB + tier 2 OL can win a Superbowl. You might be right!

Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't know if they'll make tier 1 by the end of the year ......

Stopped here

the OL has been playing well there are many many times where purdy has a clear pocket and giving him 3 seconds to throw to allow deep routes to develop

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
PS: ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶O̶L̶ Outsider opinions started as 19th and have slowly been climbing.

Corrected

Going from 19th to 7th isin't a sign of "improving steadily." This is the fake bill of goods sold here that -- scarily -- some here continue to buy.

It's a sign of flat-out being wrong, and/or swinging "rankings" whichever way the team is currently doing.

When we win the SB, the O line will magically be teir 1 all by themselves.

7th is pretty damn good. They're playing really good ball, hence why this thread has been so quiet. There's still several weeks to go too.

I don't know if they'll make tier 1 by the end of the year but it's going to be close. Add an MVP QB to that play and you've got really good odds.

You originally said a tier 1 QB + tier 2 OL can win a Superbowl. You might be right!

Brock still has the 10th lowest TTT before being pressured and CMC still has to make a number of guys miss at the LOS if its a run up the middle or to the right. But because Brock and CMC are so good at their jobs, it negates the average to below average play we see outside of Trent. The perception is at an all time high only because this offense as a whole is dominating its opponents. If we weren't putting up 30+ every week, the perception would be far less appealing, I assure you.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
PS: ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶O̶L̶ Outsider opinions started as 19th and have slowly been climbing.

Corrected

Going from 19th to 7th isin't a sign of "improving steadily." This is the fake bill of goods sold here that -- scarily -- some here continue to buy.

It's a sign of flat-out being wrong, and/or swinging "rankings" whichever way the team is currently doing.

When we win the SB, the O line will magically be teir 1 all by themselves.

7th is pretty damn good. They're playing really good ball, hence why this thread has been so quiet. There's still several weeks to go too.

I don't know if they'll make tier 1 by the end of the year but it's going to be close. Add an MVP QB to that play and you've got really good odds.

You originally said a tier 1 QB + tier 2 OL can win a Superbowl. You might be right!

Brock still has the 10th lowest TTT before being pressured and CMC still has to make a number of guys miss at the LOS if its a run up the middle or to the right. But because Brock and CMC are so good at their jobs, it negates the average to below average play we see outside of Trent. The perception is at an all time high only because this offense as a whole is dominating its opponents. If we weren't putting up 30+ every week, the perception would be far less appealing, I assure you.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Kyle's scheme (esp. TTT), running volume, CMC as the RB and passing outlet and Brock's MVP-level play (on and off schedule) are covering up some real talent deficiencies (in PP) along the OL. I don't think anyone is fooled by that. But we've been able to stay on schedule and that's key to staying away from our weakness. Right now, BT only has the Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Chiefs, Lions & Bucs ahead of SF in terms of overall talent and you could make a fair argument SF has been playing better than a couple of those teams as of late. If a team can get us off schedule, I think that's when you'll really see the talent deficiency. But for right now, I'm just enjoying this!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
PS: ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶O̶L̶ Outsider opinions started as 19th and have slowly been climbing.

Corrected

Going from 19th to 7th isin't a sign of "improving steadily." This is the fake bill of goods sold here that -- scarily -- some here continue to buy.

It's a sign of flat-out being wrong, and/or swinging "rankings" whichever way the team is currently doing.

When we win the SB, the O line will magically be teir 1 all by themselves.

7th is pretty damn good. They're playing really good ball, hence why this thread has been so quiet. There's still several weeks to go too.

I don't know if they'll make tier 1 by the end of the year but it's going to be close. Add an MVP QB to that play and you've got really good odds.

You originally said a tier 1 QB + tier 2 OL can win a Superbowl. You might be right!

Brock still has the 10th lowest TTT before being pressured and CMC still has to make a number of guys miss at the LOS if its a run up the middle or to the right. But because Brock and CMC are so good at their jobs, it negates the average to below average play we see outside of Trent. The perception is at an all time high only because this offense as a whole is dominating its opponents. If we weren't putting up 30+ every week, the perception would be far less appealing, I assure you.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Kyle's scheme (esp. TTT), running volume, CMC as the RB and passing outlet and Brock's MVP-level play (on and off schedule) are covering up some real talent deficiencies (in PP) along the OL. I don't think anyone is fooled by that. But we've been able to stay on schedule and that's key to staying away from our weakness. Right now, BT only has the Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Chiefs, Lions & Bucs ahead of SF in terms of overall talent and you could make a fair argument SF has been playing better than a couple of those teams as of late. If a team can get us off schedule, I think that's when you'll really see the talent deficiency. But for right now, I'm just enjoying this!

That's why true pass set pass pro stat efficiencies compared to the rest of the league (isolating for O line only) is a far more reliable measurement than BT's rankings. Its just that people are lazy and want someone to do the work for them. If BT has our O line ranked in the top 10 than that means he doesn't isolate O line play from scheme, QB play or RB play. Which makes him a bit unreliable imho.

I really wish pff would start recording pankcake blocks, whiffs, etc. so that it would be possible to judge run blocking for ourselves. Because run blocking is far more difficult to get a gauge on when it comes to O line efficiency than pass pro because of the lack of metrics that are recorded.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
PS: ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶O̶L̶ Outsider opinions started as 19th and have slowly been climbing.

Corrected

Going from 19th to 7th isin't a sign of "improving steadily." This is the fake bill of goods sold here that -- scarily -- some here continue to buy.

It's a sign of flat-out being wrong, and/or swinging "rankings" whichever way the team is currently doing.

When we win the SB, the O line will magically be teir 1 all by themselves.

7th is pretty damn good. They're playing really good ball, hence why this thread has been so quiet. There's still several weeks to go too.

I don't know if they'll make tier 1 by the end of the year but it's going to be close. Add an MVP QB to that play and you've got really good odds.

You originally said a tier 1 QB + tier 2 OL can win a Superbowl. You might be right!

Brock still has the 10th lowest TTT before being pressured and CMC still has to make a number of guys miss at the LOS if its a run up the middle or to the right. But because Brock and CMC are so good at their jobs, it negates the average to below average play we see outside of Trent. The perception is at an all time high only because this offense as a whole is dominating its opponents. If we weren't putting up 30+ every week, the perception would be far less appealing, I assure you.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Kyle's scheme (esp. TTT), running volume, CMC as the RB and passing outlet and Brock's MVP-level play (on and off schedule) are covering up some real talent deficiencies (in PP) along the OL. I don't think anyone is fooled by that. But we've been able to stay on schedule and that's key to staying away from our weakness. Right now, BT only has the Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Chiefs, Lions & Bucs ahead of SF in terms of overall talent and you could make a fair argument SF has been playing better than a couple of those teams as of late. If a team can get us off schedule, I think that's when you'll really see the talent deficiency. But for right now, I'm just enjoying this!

That's why true pass set pass pro stat efficiencies compared to the rest of the league (isolating for O line only) is a far more reliable measurement than BT's rankings. Its just that people are lazy and want someone to do the work for them. If BT has our O line ranked in the top 10 than that means he doesn't isolate O line play from scheme, QB play or RB play. Which makes him a bit unreliable imho.

I really wish pff would start recording pankcake blocks, whiffs, etc. so that it would be possible to judge run blocking for ourselves. Because run blocking is far more difficult to get a gauge on when it comes to O line efficiency than pass pro because of the lack of metrics that are recorded.

I hear you. I'm sure they take into account the run blocking in the grand picture and overall, have slightly moved up weekly from the low 20's in the off season to 7th. Remember, we started with 4 OL that weren't exactly known high-end talents. Also, I think the PP efficiency means far more to the other offenses noted minus the Ravens. So it's a balancing act of collective OL specific to scheme and success within it. The fact that there are the 2 OL's that run more than pass in the top 7 speaks to that acumen.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
PS: ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶O̶L̶ Outsider opinions started as 19th and have slowly been climbing.

Corrected

Going from 19th to 7th isin't a sign of "improving steadily." This is the fake bill of goods sold here that -- scarily -- some here continue to buy.

It's a sign of flat-out being wrong, and/or swinging "rankings" whichever way the team is currently doing.

When we win the SB, the O line will magically be teir 1 all by themselves.

7th is pretty damn good. They're playing really good ball, hence why this thread has been so quiet. There's still several weeks to go too.

I don't know if they'll make tier 1 by the end of the year but it's going to be close. Add an MVP QB to that play and you've got really good odds.

You originally said a tier 1 QB + tier 2 OL can win a Superbowl. You might be right!

Brock still has the 10th lowest TTT before being pressured and CMC still has to make a number of guys miss at the LOS if its a run up the middle or to the right. But because Brock and CMC are so good at their jobs, it negates the average to below average play we see outside of Trent. The perception is at an all time high only because this offense as a whole is dominating its opponents. If we weren't putting up 30+ every week, the perception would be far less appealing, I assure you.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Kyle's scheme (esp. TTT), running volume, CMC as the RB and passing outlet and Brock's MVP-level play (on and off schedule) are covering up some real talent deficiencies (in PP) along the OL. I don't think anyone is fooled by that. But we've been able to stay on schedule and that's key to staying away from our weakness. Right now, BT only has the Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Chiefs, Lions & Bucs ahead of SF in terms of overall talent and you could make a fair argument SF has been playing better than a couple of those teams as of late. If a team can get us off schedule, I think that's when you'll really see the talent deficiency. But for right now, I'm just enjoying this!

That's why true pass set pass pro stat efficiencies compared to the rest of the league (isolating for O line only) is a far more reliable measurement than BT's rankings. Its just that people are lazy and want someone to do the work for them. If BT has our O line ranked in the top 10 than that means he doesn't isolate O line play from scheme, QB play or RB play. Which makes him a bit unreliable imho.

I really wish pff would start recording pankcake blocks, whiffs, etc. so that it would be possible to judge run blocking for ourselves. Because run blocking is far more difficult to get a gauge on when it comes to O line efficiency than pass pro because of the lack of metrics that are recorded.

I hear you. I'm sure they take into account the run blocking in the grand picture and overall, have slightly moved up weekly from the low 20's in the off season to 7th. Remember, we started with 4 OL that weren't exactly known high-end talents. Also, I think the PP efficiency means far more to the other offenses noted minus the Ravens. So it's a balancing act of collective OL specific to scheme and success within it. The fact that there are the 2 OL's that run more than pass in the top 7 speaks to that acumen.

I am going to create another chart this week like I did halfway through the season so we can compare and get a gauge on if and/or how much they have improved in the later part of this season.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
PS: ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶O̶L̶ Outsider opinions started as 19th and have slowly been climbing.

Corrected

Going from 19th to 7th isin't a sign of "improving steadily." This is the fake bill of goods sold here that -- scarily -- some here continue to buy.

It's a sign of flat-out being wrong, and/or swinging "rankings" whichever way the team is currently doing.

When we win the SB, the O line will magically be teir 1 all by themselves.

7th is pretty damn good. They're playing really good ball, hence why this thread has been so quiet. There's still several weeks to go too.

I don't know if they'll make tier 1 by the end of the year but it's going to be close. Add an MVP QB to that play and you've got really good odds.

You originally said a tier 1 QB + tier 2 OL can win a Superbowl. You might be right!

Brock still has the 10th lowest TTT before being pressured and CMC still has to make a number of guys miss at the LOS if its a run up the middle or to the right. But because Brock and CMC are so good at their jobs, it negates the average to below average play we see outside of Trent. The perception is at an all time high only because this offense as a whole is dominating its opponents. If we weren't putting up 30+ every week, the perception would be far less appealing, I assure you.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Kyle's scheme (esp. TTT), running volume, CMC as the RB and passing outlet and Brock's MVP-level play (on and off schedule) are covering up some real talent deficiencies (in PP) along the OL. I don't think anyone is fooled by that. But we've been able to stay on schedule and that's key to staying away from our weakness. Right now, BT only has the Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Chiefs, Lions & Bucs ahead of SF in terms of overall talent and you could make a fair argument SF has been playing better than a couple of those teams as of late. If a team can get us off schedule, I think that's when you'll really see the talent deficiency. But for right now, I'm just enjoying this!

That's why true pass set pass pro stat efficiencies compared to the rest of the league (isolating for O line only) is a far more reliable measurement than BT's rankings. Its just that people are lazy and want someone to do the work for them. If BT has our O line ranked in the top 10 than that means he doesn't isolate O line play from scheme, QB play or RB play. Which makes him a bit unreliable imho.

I really wish pff would start recording pankcake blocks, whiffs, etc. so that it would be possible to judge run blocking for ourselves. Because run blocking is far more difficult to get a gauge on when it comes to O line efficiency than pass pro because of the lack of metrics that are recorded.

I hear you. I'm sure they take into account the run blocking in the grand picture and overall, have slightly moved up weekly from the low 20's in the off season to 7th. Remember, we started with 4 OL that weren't exactly known high-end talents. Also, I think the PP efficiency means far more to the other offenses noted minus the Ravens. So it's a balancing act of collective OL specific to scheme and success within it. The fact that there are the 2 OL's that run more than pass in the top 7 speaks to that acumen.

Ironically where the 49ers *can get better* is in the run game. They have been a predominantly a left handed team this year on the ground. With Feliciano, the 49ers seem to have developed the right side runs. I think that helps in calling more classic draw plays and wrap around handoffs - which i think Kyle is saving for the playoffs - for McCaffrey and Deebo.

Pass protection breakdowns, that I've seen so far have come from the right and interior middle. Brock's ability to throw quickly has somewhat helped, but those defects will be magnified in the playoffs. Better OLine communication can help, but I'm looking to the offseason to solve that problem.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
PS: ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶O̶L̶ Outsider opinions started as 19th and have slowly been climbing.

Corrected

Going from 19th to 7th isin't a sign of "improving steadily." This is the fake bill of goods sold here that -- scarily -- some here continue to buy.

It's a sign of flat-out being wrong, and/or swinging "rankings" whichever way the team is currently doing.

When we win the SB, the O line will magically be teir 1 all by themselves.

7th is pretty damn good. They're playing really good ball, hence why this thread has been so quiet. There's still several weeks to go too.

I don't know if they'll make tier 1 by the end of the year but it's going to be close. Add an MVP QB to that play and you've got really good odds.

You originally said a tier 1 QB + tier 2 OL can win a Superbowl. You might be right!

Brock still has the 10th lowest TTT before being pressured and CMC still has to make a number of guys miss at the LOS if its a run up the middle or to the right. But because Brock and CMC are so good at their jobs, it negates the average to below average play we see outside of Trent. The perception is at an all time high only because this offense as a whole is dominating its opponents. If we weren't putting up 30+ every week, the perception would be far less appealing, I assure you.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Kyle's scheme (esp. TTT), running volume, CMC as the RB and passing outlet and Brock's MVP-level play (on and off schedule) are covering up some real talent deficiencies (in PP) along the OL. I don't think anyone is fooled by that. But we've been able to stay on schedule and that's key to staying away from our weakness. Right now, BT only has the Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Chiefs, Lions & Bucs ahead of SF in terms of overall talent and you could make a fair argument SF has been playing better than a couple of those teams as of late. If a team can get us off schedule, I think that's when you'll really see the talent deficiency. But for right now, I'm just enjoying this!

That's why true pass set pass pro stat efficiencies compared to the rest of the league (isolating for O line only) is a far more reliable measurement than BT's rankings. Its just that people are lazy and want someone to do the work for them. If BT has our O line ranked in the top 10 than that means he doesn't isolate O line play from scheme, QB play or RB play. Which makes him a bit unreliable imho.

I really wish pff would start recording pankcake blocks, whiffs, etc. so that it would be possible to judge run blocking for ourselves. Because run blocking is far more difficult to get a gauge on when it comes to O line efficiency than pass pro because of the lack of metrics that are recorded.

I hear you. I'm sure they take into account the run blocking in the grand picture and overall, have slightly moved up weekly from the low 20's in the off season to 7th. Remember, we started with 4 OL that weren't exactly known high-end talents. Also, I think the PP efficiency means far more to the other offenses noted minus the Ravens. So it's a balancing act of collective OL specific to scheme and success within it. The fact that there are the 2 OL's that run more than pass in the top 7 speaks to that acumen.

I am going to create another chart this week like I did halfway through the season so we can compare and get a gauge on if and/or how much they have improved in the later part of this season.

Awesome! I look forward to it.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
PS: ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶O̶L̶ Outsider opinions started as 19th and have slowly been climbing.

Corrected

Going from 19th to 7th isin't a sign of "improving steadily." This is the fake bill of goods sold here that -- scarily -- some here continue to buy.

It's a sign of flat-out being wrong, and/or swinging "rankings" whichever way the team is currently doing.

When we win the SB, the O line will magically be teir 1 all by themselves.

7th is pretty damn good. They're playing really good ball, hence why this thread has been so quiet. There's still several weeks to go too.

I don't know if they'll make tier 1 by the end of the year but it's going to be close. Add an MVP QB to that play and you've got really good odds.

You originally said a tier 1 QB + tier 2 OL can win a Superbowl. You might be right!

Brock still has the 10th lowest TTT before being pressured and CMC still has to make a number of guys miss at the LOS if its a run up the middle or to the right. But because Brock and CMC are so good at their jobs, it negates the average to below average play we see outside of Trent. The perception is at an all time high only because this offense as a whole is dominating its opponents. If we weren't putting up 30+ every week, the perception would be far less appealing, I assure you.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Kyle's scheme (esp. TTT), running volume, CMC as the RB and passing outlet and Brock's MVP-level play (on and off schedule) are covering up some real talent deficiencies (in PP) along the OL. I don't think anyone is fooled by that. But we've been able to stay on schedule and that's key to staying away from our weakness. Right now, BT only has the Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Chiefs, Lions & Bucs ahead of SF in terms of overall talent and you could make a fair argument SF has been playing better than a couple of those teams as of late. If a team can get us off schedule, I think that's when you'll really see the talent deficiency. But for right now, I'm just enjoying this!

That's why true pass set pass pro stat efficiencies compared to the rest of the league (isolating for O line only) is a far more reliable measurement than BT's rankings. Its just that people are lazy and want someone to do the work for them. If BT has our O line ranked in the top 10 than that means he doesn't isolate O line play from scheme, QB play or RB play. Which makes him a bit unreliable imho.

I really wish pff would start recording pankcake blocks, whiffs, etc. so that it would be possible to judge run blocking for ourselves. Because run blocking is far more difficult to get a gauge on when it comes to O line efficiency than pass pro because of the lack of metrics that are recorded.

I hear you. I'm sure they take into account the run blocking in the grand picture and overall, have slightly moved up weekly from the low 20's in the off season to 7th. Remember, we started with 4 OL that weren't exactly known high-end talents. Also, I think the PP efficiency means far more to the other offenses noted minus the Ravens. So it's a balancing act of collective OL specific to scheme and success within it. The fact that there are the 2 OL's that run more than pass in the top 7 speaks to that acumen.

Ironically where the 49ers *can get better* is in the run game. They have been a predominantly a left handed team this year on the ground. With Feliciano, the 49ers seem to have developed the right side runs. I think that helps in calling more classic draw plays and wrap around handoffs - which i think Kyle is saving for the playoffs - for McCaffrey and Deebo.

Pass protection breakdowns, that I've seen so far have come from the right and interior middle. Brock's ability to throw quickly has somewhat helped, but those defects will be magnified in the playoffs. Better OLine communication can help, but I'm looking to the offseason to solve that problem.

Yes sir. "Run left!" You've captured the eye-test here for me as well. In fact, it appears we're on the same page here which is much more fun.

This is probably the first week in a while where my eyes and PFF grades agreed on oline.

Feleciano had a great game and McKivitz had a rare good game. Brendel had an uncharacteristically bad game. On that long TD to CMC allowed immediate pressure, which is what caused Brock to roll out left.

Seemed like on the one real exotic coverage the cards brought where they showed like 8 guys up at the line and only half rushed, it threw the oline off badly and they gave up pressure against 3-4 really quick.

Seemed like a bunch of guys didn't rush and also didn't drop back and just hung around the line and that messed with covering the guys actually rushing.

Brock read it and checked it down quick but it was almost no guys actually rushing and we gave up like instant pressure.

Somebody should find that clip.

It seemed to throw the line off more than it did Brock because we had way more guys blocking than actually rushed but they were busy staring at the guys not moving near the line of scrimmage.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
Seemed like on the one real exotic coverage the cards brought where they showed like 8 guys up at the line and only half rushed, it threw the oline off badly and they gave up pressure against 3-4 really quick.

Seemed like a bunch of guys didn't rush and also didn't drop back and just hung around the line and that messed with covering the guys actually rushing.

Brock read it and checked it down quick but it was almost no guys actually rushing and we gave up like instant pressure.

Somebody should find that clip.

It seemed to throw the line off more than it did Brock because we had way more guys blocking than actually rushed but they were busy staring at the guys not moving near the line of scrimmage.

Not pertaining to the O line. But it is quite entertaining to see the lengths defenses are willing to go to try and shut Brock down.

I'm still hoping for an OLIne heavy draft for us.