49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I haven't said a thing about the rankings other than I could see why they have it ranked that way this week. You and 2 others have an issue with it yet never have a thing to add about why you object to it. Odd stance esp. for units in tier 1 or 2.

If only team football were that simple in the real world. Per usual, you see no other factor in an outcome. Sad. There's so much more to football esp. here where the QB has the least passing attempts in the league.

As opposed to using one dudes ranking as the determination on whether a SB can be won or lost?

If it was all about team football you wouldn't have made your bet. You did it because you believe the O line and the O line alone will be what costs this team.

Brocks play will be the main factor. Not the only factor but the main one. Elite QB play is needed THE MOST. Elite o line play is a nice to have but not essential.

You mean subject matter experts? And proven end results after 7 straight years? Yeah, sorry if in don't pivot to you and All for best combination odds.

Nope, QB + OL in combination. That's the difference. At the time of the bet, the OL was the biggest question mark on the team and we were still learning about Brock. Nobody expected him to turn into an MVP candidate nor the OL being considered in the top five by SME's this late in the season. That's incredible. We should be celebrating that. Instead, it's just another no-argument, no POV.

History shows you need both. You can't be an elite QB if your OL is s**tting the bed. That combination is critical if you want to win a SuperBowl. That's football. But yes, Brock is the most critical piece. But make no mistake about it, the OL can undo him too, no matter how great he is. Let's hope that's not the case this year.

If no SME considered how well they would be, maybe they aren't SMEs

history shows you need a good QB and good enough OL, not the best OL

I'll just add the receivers are important. If you have a good QB, good OLine but only one or two receivers, the OLine has to pass protect longer to give the fewer recivers more time to get open (example:double moves).

Because the 49ers have so many weapons, multiple recivers are open on any given play. That helps the offensive line and the OLine stats. So as long as the 49ers OLine can give Brock a good solid 2.5 seconds, with his multiple offensive weapons - he's good. On another team, same OLine, and only one or two recivers, I'm betting not so good.

So the OLine (I still think) is still a couple of steps below the top, but still its an impressive run blocking OLine. McCaffrey isn't a possible MVP without getting those run blocks from the left side. That makes the OLine rise higher in terms of tiers.

Yes, the Skill players are more of a priority. if we replaced all our skill players with #1 OL.. the offense wouldn't be they way it is today

Well - yes - what you get in terms of having more skill players is needing less O-line talent. *However* that is going to take up a lot of cap space. Kittle, Deebo, and CMC are probably being paid 15+ million a year each (I Defer to AB81 on this), a top tier O-line might be more cap friendly.

An OLine with two McKivitz on the outside OTs and three Banks on the inside, and Ronnie Bell, Dwelly, Mason, Ray Ray, Jauan Jennings (at the skill positions) - might be more sustainable from a cap perspective than Kittle, Deebo, Aiyuk, Juszczyk and CMC all together (for example).

top players paid in any position is going to take up cap space, but who would take a top paid OL vs a top paid skill player

Cap friendly OL that is above avg is what we have now, and you see the results of having a better team all around. You don't need the best OL

Feliciano and Pryor are being paid around 3 million each. Brunskill is about 5 million. I think the cap space of spending money on the OLine and possibly losing an offensive skill postiton star is worth the loss of talent. As an example a guy like Aiyuk, I'm thinking will get around 15 to 25 million annualy on his second contract. 25 million can pay for 4 young upcoming decent OLinemen, or two pretty good OLinemen. Point being I think if you upgrade the OLine talent, you don't need as much skill position talent. At least that's my conjecture. Give Purdy 3 seconds in the pocket, he probably can move the offense with Jauan, Dwelly and Ronnie bell.

I reserved jusgement is the most disingenuous comment ever made on this board.

Yup reserved judgement until I bet they had no chsnce.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I haven't said a thing about the rankings other than I could see why they have it ranked that way this week. You and 2 others have an issue with it yet never have a thing to add about why you object to it. Odd stance esp. for units in tier 1 or 2.

If only team football were that simple in the real world. Per usual, you see no other factor in an outcome. Sad. There's so much more to football esp. here where the QB has the least passing attempts in the league.

As opposed to using one dudes ranking as the determination on whether a SB can be won or lost?

If it was all about team football you wouldn't have made your bet. You did it because you believe the O line and the O line alone will be what costs this team.

Brocks play will be the main factor. Not the only factor but the main one. Elite QB play is needed THE MOST. Elite o line play is a nice to have but not essential.

You mean subject matter experts? And proven end results after 7 straight years? Yeah, sorry if in don't pivot to you and All for best combination odds.

Nope, QB + OL in combination. That's the difference. At the time of the bet, the OL was the biggest question mark on the team and we were still learning about Brock. Nobody expected him to turn into an MVP candidate nor the OL being considered in the top five by SME's this late in the season. That's incredible. We should be celebrating that. Instead, it's just another no-argument, no POV.

History shows you need both. You can't be an elite QB if your OL is s**tting the bed. That combination is critical if you want to win a SuperBowl. That's football. But yes, Brock is the most critical piece. But make no mistake about it, the OL can undo him too, no matter how great he is. Let's hope that's not the case this year.

If no SME considered how well they would be, maybe they aren't SMEs

history shows you need a good QB and good enough OL, not the best OL

I'll just add the receivers are important. If you have a good QB, good OLine but only one or two receivers, the OLine has to pass protect longer to give the fewer recivers more time to get open (example:double moves).

Because the 49ers have so many weapons, multiple recivers are open on any given play. That helps the offensive line and the OLine stats. So as long as the 49ers OLine can give Brock a good solid 2.5 seconds, with his multiple offensive weapons - he's good. On another team, same OLine, and only one or two recivers, I'm betting not so good.

So the OLine (I still think) is still a couple of steps below the top, but still its an impressive run blocking OLine. McCaffrey isn't a possible MVP without getting those run blocks from the left side. That makes the OLine rise higher in terms of tiers.

Yes, the Skill players are more of a priority. if we replaced all our skill players with #1 OL.. the offense wouldn't be they way it is today

Really? Brady made a career out of playing with weak, often injured no name receivers behind really good lines. That's not minimizing the importance of skill positions esp. ones like our that are designed for YAC on passes under 2.5s. Besides, how are you getting the ball to great skill positions if you're on your back and can't run? #Madden

Agree 💯%. This team went to the Superbowl behind a 2nd tier QB in Jimmy and having a mid tier OLine in 2019 (Person playing right guard and Brunskill at center). Key is having a great defense. The offensive scheme is a heavy run offense with pass counters - the naked boots and the misdirection play actions to the TE's and WR's. Scheme + good OLine = some cap savings and if the 49ers draft well at the skill positions, conceivably they can maintain the offense with Purdy at QB and 2nd tier skilled positions. At least I'd like to think so. Again, I cite Mr. YacBros points about giving a WR 3 plus seconds to beat a DB and he'll beat the DB - 70+ percent of the time. (I'm paraphrasing).

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I haven't said a thing about the rankings other than I could see why they have it ranked that way this week. You and 2 others have an issue with it yet never have a thing to add about why you object to it. Odd stance esp. for units in tier 1 or 2.

If only team football were that simple in the real world. Per usual, you see no other factor in an outcome. Sad. There's so much more to football esp. here where the QB has the least passing attempts in the league.

As opposed to using one dudes ranking as the determination on whether a SB can be won or lost?

If it was all about team football you wouldn't have made your bet. You did it because you believe the O line and the O line alone will be what costs this team.

Brocks play will be the main factor. Not the only factor but the main one. Elite QB play is needed THE MOST. Elite o line play is a nice to have but not essential.

You mean subject matter experts? And proven end results after 7 straight years? Yeah, sorry if in don't pivot to you and All for best combination odds.

Nope, QB + OL in combination. That's the difference. At the time of the bet, the OL was the biggest question mark on the team and we were still learning about Brock. Nobody expected him to turn into an MVP candidate nor the OL being considered in the top five by SME's this late in the season. That's incredible. We should be celebrating that. Instead, it's just another no-argument, no POV.

History shows you need both. You can't be an elite QB if your OL is s**tting the bed. That combination is critical if you want to win a SuperBowl. That's football. But yes, Brock is the most critical piece. But make no mistake about it, the OL can undo him too, no matter how great he is. Let's hope that's not the case this year.

If no SME considered how well they would be, maybe they aren't SMEs

history shows you need a good QB and good enough OL, not the best OL

I'll just add the receivers are important. If you have a good QB, good OLine but only one or two receivers, the OLine has to pass protect longer to give the fewer recivers more time to get open (example:double moves).

Because the 49ers have so many weapons, multiple recivers are open on any given play. That helps the offensive line and the OLine stats. So as long as the 49ers OLine can give Brock a good solid 2.5 seconds, with his multiple offensive weapons - he's good. On another team, same OLine, and only one or two recivers, I'm betting not so good.

So the OLine (I still think) is still a couple of steps below the top, but still its an impressive run blocking OLine. McCaffrey isn't a possible MVP without getting those run blocks from the left side. That makes the OLine rise higher in terms of tiers.

Yes, the Skill players are more of a priority. if we replaced all our skill players with #1 OL.. the offense wouldn't be they way it is today

Really? Brady made a career out of playing with weak, often injured no name receivers behind really good lines. That's not minimizing the importance of skill positions esp. ones like our that are designed for YAC on passes under 2.5s. Besides, how are you getting the ball to great skill positions if you're on your back and can't run? #Madden

is that's what happening to our team right now.. on our back and can't run lol

No, we have a top 5 OL ANNNNNND top skill positions. Plus this cool little thing called an MVP QB.

Is the niners O line top 5? If so I love to be wrong when it comes to doubting we can overcome a perceived shortcoming. I know the rest is true 👍

I think from a run blocking standpoint, it's top tier - at least to runs on the left side. Runs to the right side, with Feliciano, is pretty good, and I'd like to peg that side as being mid tier to top 10 in the NFL. This is important to power Brock's play action passing.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
So now top 5 is ok? Thought you needed tier 1 elite 2 OL.

Easy pal easy.... no more bickering. Just enjoy our success. We need positive energy to win today

Right? MVP QB + top 5 OL = these whiners are still whining.

"But NC said..."

Haha.

deflect deflect deflect ..good spin strategy

Hey I said the O line would kill us and I was wrong. It's OK I would rather win it all then be right. I do want to have some discussion on our line play however. I'm watching Kermit start to come back and that sucks.

I reserved judgement until week 8 but after those 3 straight losses and McKivitz getting killed starting week 1 against Pittsburgh, if someone told me in week 16 TrenchWarfare/Brandon Thorn would have us ranked in tier 2, #5 overall, I probably wouldn't have believed it.

TBF, I share YAC's hidden concerns as well. I don't necessarily fully agree with that ranking but in a year where we've seen every tier 1 OL bounce around, I can see why they'd be ranked that high right now...consistency.

Yeah I also thought the line had to much suckage without my favorite TW, during that 3 game dark period of the season. Rankings do not tell the whole story, it's also the eye test and key moments of failure. After Watt had his way with McKivitz that was another low point in my faith. He has improved a lot and with Feliciano they look much better. Hope they keep it up today we need them.

Exactly! Me too!!

Agree💯%, Feliciano has really made a difference on the right side. McKivits has stepped up his game with Feliciano there. The right side run game has exploded behind Feliciano. Ravens is going to be a big test of the 49ers OLine mentality. I think they will pass the test. We shall see. If they do, I'm bumping their tier level to the next one.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
I reserved jusgement is the most disingenuous comment ever made on this board.

Yup reserved judgement until I bet they had no chsnce.

I'm the one posting they've moved up every week and telling you we should be stoked about that. You're the one still crying about rankings. LOL

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
So now top 5 is ok? Thought you needed tier 1 elite 2 OL.

Easy pal easy.... no more bickering. Just enjoy our success. We need positive energy to win today

Right? MVP QB + top 5 OL = these whiners are still whining.

"But NC said..."

Haha.

deflect deflect deflect ..good spin strategy

Hey I said the O line would kill us and I was wrong. It's OK I would rather win it all then be right. I do want to have some discussion on our line play however. I'm watching Kermit start to come back and that sucks.

I reserved judgement until week 8 but after those 3 straight losses and McKivitz getting killed starting week 1 against Pittsburgh, if someone told me in week 16 TrenchWarfare/Brandon Thorn would have us ranked in tier 2, #5 overall, I probably wouldn't have believed it.

TBF, I share YAC's hidden concerns as well. I don't necessarily fully agree with that ranking but in a year where we've seen every tier 1 OL bounce around, I can see why they'd be ranked that high right now...consistency.

My concerns aren't hidden. Pass protection is one of the worst in the league when Trent isn't protecting Brock's blind side. Without Trent this run game averages less than 4 yards per carry. Without Trent, Brock and CMC, this team is fighting for the 7th seed.

Well you and I know that. But for the crew in back who don't read or comprehend, I'll let you speak for yourself. I probably should have used the word "masked" instead because it's hard for many to see that weakness unless you're really looking for it.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I haven't said a thing about the rankings other than I could see why they have it ranked that way this week. You and 2 others have an issue with it yet never have a thing to add about why you object to it. Odd stance esp. for units in tier 1 or 2.

If only team football were that simple in the real world. Per usual, you see no other factor in an outcome. Sad. There's so much more to football esp. here where the QB has the least passing attempts in the league.

As opposed to using one dudes ranking as the determination on whether a SB can be won or lost?

If it was all about team football you wouldn't have made your bet. You did it because you believe the O line and the O line alone will be what costs this team.

Brocks play will be the main factor. Not the only factor but the main one. Elite QB play is needed THE MOST. Elite o line play is a nice to have but not essential.

You mean subject matter experts? And proven end results after 7 straight years? Yeah, sorry if in don't pivot to you and All for best combination odds.

Nope, QB + OL in combination. That's the difference. At the time of the bet, the OL was the biggest question mark on the team and we were still learning about Brock. Nobody expected him to turn into an MVP candidate nor the OL being considered in the top five by SME's this late in the season. That's incredible. We should be celebrating that. Instead, it's just another no-argument, no POV.

History shows you need both. You can't be an elite QB if your OL is s**tting the bed. That combination is critical if you want to win a SuperBowl. That's football. But yes, Brock is the most critical piece. But make no mistake about it, the OL can undo him too, no matter how great he is. Let's hope that's not the case this year.

If no SME considered how well they would be, maybe they aren't SMEs

history shows you need a good QB and good enough OL, not the best OL

I'll just add the receivers are important. If you have a good QB, good OLine but only one or two receivers, the OLine has to pass protect longer to give the fewer recivers more time to get open (example:double moves).

Because the 49ers have so many weapons, multiple recivers are open on any given play. That helps the offensive line and the OLine stats. So as long as the 49ers OLine can give Brock a good solid 2.5 seconds, with his multiple offensive weapons - he's good. On another team, same OLine, and only one or two recivers, I'm betting not so good.

So the OLine (I still think) is still a couple of steps below the top, but still its an impressive run blocking OLine. McCaffrey isn't a possible MVP without getting those run blocks from the left side. That makes the OLine rise higher in terms of tiers.

Yes, the Skill players are more of a priority. if we replaced all our skill players with #1 OL.. the offense wouldn't be they way it is today

Maybe, then again maybe not. This offense with Jimmy, the skill players were decent to pretty good. This offense with Purdy is - historic. Pair a pretty good (say top 10 offense with a top 3 defense) and I think you can get to the playoffs year in and year out. My point is more towards when Purdy is Billionaire vs now where he's probably behind a month in his rent payment. When Purdy get's his second contract, watch out cap space, because there won't be any to sign *all the stars* we have now.

This kind of offense won with the likes of Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, and Earl Cooper vs Rice, T.O. and Roger Craig. So I think we can lose Aiyuk (not saying they shouldn't try to sign him) but Deebo, CMC, and Kittle - might be the bare minimum for skill positions and the rest of the cap space and talent funneled to the OLine should still work offensively. Key is having a great defense to pair with a ok-to-pretty good offense.

The either-or stance flies out the window after 7 full off seasons and no scheme changes.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
So now top 5 is ok? Thought you needed tier 1 elite 2 OL.

Easy pal easy.... no more bickering. Just enjoy our success. We need positive energy to win today

Right? MVP QB + top 5 OL = these whiners are still whining.

"But NC said..."

Haha.

deflect deflect deflect ..good spin strategy

Hey I said the O line would kill us and I was wrong. It's OK I would rather win it all then be right. I do want to have some discussion on our line play however. I'm watching Kermit start to come back and that sucks.

I reserved judgement until week 8 but after those 3 straight losses and McKivitz getting killed starting week 1 against Pittsburgh, if someone told me in week 16 TrenchWarfare/Brandon Thorn would have us ranked in tier 2, #5 overall, I probably wouldn't have believed it.

TBF, I share YAC's hidden concerns as well. I don't necessarily fully agree with that ranking but in a year where we've seen every tier 1 OL bounce around, I can see why they'd be ranked that high right now...consistency.

My concerns aren't hidden. Pass protection is one of the worst in the league when Trent isn't protecting Brock's blind side. Without Trent this run game averages less than 4 yards per carry. Without Trent, Brock and CMC, this team is fighting for the 7th seed.

Well you and I know that. But for the crew in back who don't read or comprehend, I'll let you speak for yourself. I probably should have used the word "masked" instead because it's hard for many to see that weakness unless you're really looking for it.

Masked does sound like a better description. 👍

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I haven't said a thing about the rankings other than I could see why they have it ranked that way this week. You and 2 others have an issue with it yet never have a thing to add about why you object to it. Odd stance esp. for units in tier 1 or 2.

If only team football were that simple in the real world. Per usual, you see no other factor in an outcome. Sad. There's so much more to football esp. here where the QB has the least passing attempts in the league.

As opposed to using one dudes ranking as the determination on whether a SB can be won or lost?

If it was all about team football you wouldn't have made your bet. You did it because you believe the O line and the O line alone will be what costs this team.

Brocks play will be the main factor. Not the only factor but the main one. Elite QB play is needed THE MOST. Elite o line play is a nice to have but not essential.

You mean subject matter experts? And proven end results after 7 straight years? Yeah, sorry if in don't pivot to you and All for best combination odds.

Nope, QB + OL in combination. That's the difference. At the time of the bet, the OL was the biggest question mark on the team and we were still learning about Brock. Nobody expected him to turn into an MVP candidate nor the OL being considered in the top five by SME's this late in the season. That's incredible. We should be celebrating that. Instead, it's just another no-argument, no POV.

History shows you need both. You can't be an elite QB if your OL is s**tting the bed. That combination is critical if you want to win a SuperBowl. That's football. But yes, Brock is the most critical piece. But make no mistake about it, the OL can undo him too, no matter how great he is. Let's hope that's not the case this year.

If no SME considered how well they would be, maybe they aren't SMEs

history shows you need a good QB and good enough OL, not the best OL

I'll just add the receivers are important. If you have a good QB, good OLine but only one or two receivers, the OLine has to pass protect longer to give the fewer recivers more time to get open (example:double moves).

Because the 49ers have so many weapons, multiple recivers are open on any given play. That helps the offensive line and the OLine stats. So as long as the 49ers OLine can give Brock a good solid 2.5 seconds, with his multiple offensive weapons - he's good. On another team, same OLine, and only one or two recivers, I'm betting not so good.

So the OLine (I still think) is still a couple of steps below the top, but still its an impressive run blocking OLine. McCaffrey isn't a possible MVP without getting those run blocks from the left side. That makes the OLine rise higher in terms of tiers.

Yes, the Skill players are more of a priority. if we replaced all our skill players with #1 OL.. the offense wouldn't be they way it is today

Maybe, then again maybe not. This offense with Jimmy, the skill players were decent to pretty good. This offense with Purdy is - historic. Pair a pretty good (say top 10 offense with a top 3 defense) and I think you can get to the playoffs year in and year out. My point is more towards when Purdy is Billionaire vs now where he's probably behind a month in his rent payment. When Purdy get's his second contract, watch out cap space, because there won't be any to sign *all the stars* we have now.

This kind of offense won with the likes of Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, and Earl Cooper vs Rice, T.O. and Roger Craig. So I think we can lose Aiyuk (not saying they shouldn't try to sign him) but Deebo, CMC, and Kittle - might be the bare minimum for skill positions and the rest of the cap space and talent funneled to the OLine should still work offensively. Key is having a great defense to pair with a ok-to-pretty good offense.

The either-or stance flies out the window after 7 full off seasons and no scheme changes.

Well, the 49ers have really gotten bigger, despite the fact that there are no scheme changes. Feliciano is much bigger than Kyle's typical guards. I think Size helps in anchoring against bull rushes. You'll probably get more bull rushes in the interior line than the offensive tackle positions. Now I'd be looking for a bigger center and of course better talent to compete with Trent and McKivitz on the OT positions in the next draft cycle.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
So now top 5 is ok? Thought you needed tier 1 elite 2 OL.

Easy pal easy.... no more bickering. Just enjoy our success. We need positive energy to win today

Right? MVP QB + top 5 OL = these whiners are still whining.

"But NC said..."

Haha.

deflect deflect deflect ..good spin strategy

Hey I said the O line would kill us and I was wrong. It's OK I would rather win it all then be right. I do want to have some discussion on our line play however. I'm watching Kermit start to come back and that sucks.

I reserved judgement until week 8 but after those 3 straight losses and McKivitz getting killed starting week 1 against Pittsburgh, if someone told me in week 16 TrenchWarfare/Brandon Thorn would have us ranked in tier 2, #5 overall, I probably wouldn't have believed it.

TBF, I share YAC's hidden concerns as well. I don't necessarily fully agree with that ranking but in a year where we've seen every tier 1 OL bounce around, I can see why they'd be ranked that high right now...consistency.

My concerns aren't hidden. Pass protection is one of the worst in the league when Trent isn't protecting Brock's blind side. Without Trent this run game averages less than 4 yards per carry. Without Trent, Brock and CMC, this team is fighting for the 7th seed.

Well you and I know that. But for the crew in back who don't read or comprehend, I'll let you speak for yourself. I probably should have used the word "masked" instead because it's hard for many to see that weakness unless you're really looking for it.

Masked does sound like a better description. 👍

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I haven't said a thing about the rankings other than I could see why they have it ranked that way this week. You and 2 others have an issue with it yet never have a thing to add about why you object to it. Odd stance esp. for units in tier 1 or 2.

If only team football were that simple in the real world. Per usual, you see no other factor in an outcome. Sad. There's so much more to football esp. here where the QB has the least passing attempts in the league.

As opposed to using one dudes ranking as the determination on whether a SB can be won or lost?

If it was all about team football you wouldn't have made your bet. You did it because you believe the O line and the O line alone will be what costs this team.

Brocks play will be the main factor. Not the only factor but the main one. Elite QB play is needed THE MOST. Elite o line play is a nice to have but not essential.

You mean subject matter experts? And proven end results after 7 straight years? Yeah, sorry if in don't pivot to you and All for best combination odds.

Nope, QB + OL in combination. That's the difference. At the time of the bet, the OL was the biggest question mark on the team and we were still learning about Brock. Nobody expected him to turn into an MVP candidate nor the OL being considered in the top five by SME's this late in the season. That's incredible. We should be celebrating that. Instead, it's just another no-argument, no POV.

History shows you need both. You can't be an elite QB if your OL is s**tting the bed. That combination is critical if you want to win a SuperBowl. That's football. But yes, Brock is the most critical piece. But make no mistake about it, the OL can undo him too, no matter how great he is. Let's hope that's not the case this year.

If no SME considered how well they would be, maybe they aren't SMEs

history shows you need a good QB and good enough OL, not the best OL

I'll just add the receivers are important. If you have a good QB, good OLine but only one or two receivers, the OLine has to pass protect longer to give the fewer recivers more time to get open (example:double moves).

Because the 49ers have so many weapons, multiple recivers are open on any given play. That helps the offensive line and the OLine stats. So as long as the 49ers OLine can give Brock a good solid 2.5 seconds, with his multiple offensive weapons - he's good. On another team, same OLine, and only one or two recivers, I'm betting not so good.

So the OLine (I still think) is still a couple of steps below the top, but still its an impressive run blocking OLine. McCaffrey isn't a possible MVP without getting those run blocks from the left side. That makes the OLine rise higher in terms of tiers.

Yes, the Skill players are more of a priority. if we replaced all our skill players with #1 OL.. the offense wouldn't be they way it is today

Well - yes - what you get in terms of having more skill players is needing less O-line talent. *However* that is going to take up a lot of cap space. Kittle, Deebo, and CMC are probably being paid 15+ million a year each (I Defer to AB81 on this), a top tier O-line might be more cap friendly.

An OLine with two McKivitz on the outside OTs and three Banks on the inside, and Ronnie Bell, Dwelly, Mason, Ray Ray, Jauan Jennings (at the skill positions) - might be more sustainable from a cap perspective than Kittle, Deebo, Aiyuk, Juszczyk and CMC all together (for example).

top players paid in any position is going to take up cap space, but who would take a top paid OL vs a top paid skill player

Cap friendly OL that is above avg is what we have now, and you see the results of having a better team all around. You don't need the best OL

Feliciano and Pryor are being paid around 3 million each. Brunskill is about 5 million. I think the cap space of spending money on the OLine and possibly losing an offensive skill postiton star is worth the loss of talent. As an example a guy like Aiyuk, I'm thinking will get around 15 to 25 million annualy on his second contract. 25 million can pay for 4 young upcoming decent OLinemen, or two pretty good OLinemen. Point being I think if you upgrade the OLine talent, you don't need as much skill position talent. At least that's my conjecture. Give Purdy 3 seconds in the pocket, he probably can move the offense with Jauan, Dwelly and Ronnie bell.

For OT's, yes, but for interior linemen, that's more headwork and teamwork than individual skills, so I don't think Kyle is ever going to agree with that. Skill positions is individual skills.

Originally posted by BOI49er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I haven't said a thing about the rankings other than I could see why they have it ranked that way this week. You and 2 others have an issue with it yet never have a thing to add about why you object to it. Odd stance esp. for units in tier 1 or 2.

If only team football were that simple in the real world. Per usual, you see no other factor in an outcome. Sad. There's so much more to football esp. here where the QB has the least passing attempts in the league.

As opposed to using one dudes ranking as the determination on whether a SB can be won or lost?

If it was all about team football you wouldn't have made your bet. You did it because you believe the O line and the O line alone will be what costs this team.

Brocks play will be the main factor. Not the only factor but the main one. Elite QB play is needed THE MOST. Elite o line play is a nice to have but not essential.

You mean subject matter experts? And proven end results after 7 straight years? Yeah, sorry if in don't pivot to you and All for best combination odds.

Nope, QB + OL in combination. That's the difference. At the time of the bet, the OL was the biggest question mark on the team and we were still learning about Brock. Nobody expected him to turn into an MVP candidate nor the OL being considered in the top five by SME's this late in the season. That's incredible. We should be celebrating that. Instead, it's just another no-argument, no POV.

History shows you need both. You can't be an elite QB if your OL is s**tting the bed. That combination is critical if you want to win a SuperBowl. That's football. But yes, Brock is the most critical piece. But make no mistake about it, the OL can undo him too, no matter how great he is. Let's hope that's not the case this year.

If no SME considered how well they would be, maybe they aren't SMEs

history shows you need a good QB and good enough OL, not the best OL

I'll just add the receivers are important. If you have a good QB, good OLine but only one or two receivers, the OLine has to pass protect longer to give the fewer recivers more time to get open (example:double moves).

Because the 49ers have so many weapons, multiple recivers are open on any given play. That helps the offensive line and the OLine stats. So as long as the 49ers OLine can give Brock a good solid 2.5 seconds, with his multiple offensive weapons - he's good. On another team, same OLine, and only one or two recivers, I'm betting not so good.

So the OLine (I still think) is still a couple of steps below the top, but still its an impressive run blocking OLine. McCaffrey isn't a possible MVP without getting those run blocks from the left side. That makes the OLine rise higher in terms of tiers.

Yes, the Skill players are more of a priority. if we replaced all our skill players with #1 OL.. the offense wouldn't be they way it is today

Well - yes - what you get in terms of having more skill players is needing less O-line talent. *However* that is going to take up a lot of cap space. Kittle, Deebo, and CMC are probably being paid 15+ million a year each (I Defer to AB81 on this), a top tier O-line might be more cap friendly.

An OLine with two McKivitz on the outside OTs and three Banks on the inside, and Ronnie Bell, Dwelly, Mason, Ray Ray, Jauan Jennings (at the skill positions) - might be more sustainable from a cap perspective than Kittle, Deebo, Aiyuk, Juszczyk and CMC all together (for example).

top players paid in any position is going to take up cap space, but who would take a top paid OL vs a top paid skill player

Cap friendly OL that is above avg is what we have now, and you see the results of having a better team all around. You don't need the best OL

Feliciano and Pryor are being paid around 3 million each. Brunskill is about 5 million. I think the cap space of spending money on the OLine and possibly losing an offensive skill postiton star is worth the loss of talent. As an example a guy like Aiyuk, I'm thinking will get around 15 to 25 million annualy on his second contract. 25 million can pay for 4 young upcoming decent OLinemen, or two pretty good OLinemen. Point being I think if you upgrade the OLine talent, you don't need as much skill position talent. At least that's my conjecture. Give Purdy 3 seconds in the pocket, he probably can move the offense with Jauan, Dwelly and Ronnie bell.

For OT's, yes, but for interior linemen, that's more headwork and teamwork than individual skills, so I don't think Kyle is ever going to agree with that. Skill positions is individual skills.

I'm 💯% for signing Aiyuk, if we can keep him. But if he's offered 25+ million and ShanaLynch is notorious for overpaying the defensive line (read Chase Young and Randy Gregory) they just might punt on Aiyuk. In other words, Kyle might not agree, but the cap might just force his hand. I hope we CAN keep Aiyuk, but if we win the super bowl, the bottom feeder poacher teams will come out of the woodwork and will raid our coaching staff and our skill player depth. 😭

Originally posted by Giedi:
I'm 💯% for signing Aiyuk, if we can keep him. But if he's offered 25+ million and ShanaLynch is notorious for overpaying the defensive line (read Chase Young and Randy Gregory) they just might punt on Aiyuk. In other words, Kyle might not agree, but the cap might just force his hand. I hope we CAN keep Aiyuk, but if we win the super bowl, the bottom feeder poacher teams will come out of the woodwork and will raid our coaching staff and our skill player depth. 😭

I think they would have to drop deebo if it comes to between the two of them. If you get rid of yuk then the entire game becomes within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage and teams will crowd us badly. Dare us to throw over the top to nobodies. It will hurt the run game and the pass game.

Deebo might be better but we don't have anyone else to stretch the defense out other than aiyuk.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by BOI49er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I haven't said a thing about the rankings other than I could see why they have it ranked that way this week. You and 2 others have an issue with it yet never have a thing to add about why you object to it. Odd stance esp. for units in tier 1 or 2.

If only team football were that simple in the real world. Per usual, you see no other factor in an outcome. Sad. There's so much more to football esp. here where the QB has the least passing attempts in the league.

As opposed to using one dudes ranking as the determination on whether a SB can be won or lost?

If it was all about team football you wouldn't have made your bet. You did it because you believe the O line and the O line alone will be what costs this team.

Brocks play will be the main factor. Not the only factor but the main one. Elite QB play is needed THE MOST. Elite o line play is a nice to have but not essential.

You mean subject matter experts? And proven end results after 7 straight years? Yeah, sorry if in don't pivot to you and All for best combination odds.

Nope, QB + OL in combination. That's the difference. At the time of the bet, the OL was the biggest question mark on the team and we were still learning about Brock. Nobody expected him to turn into an MVP candidate nor the OL being considered in the top five by SME's this late in the season. That's incredible. We should be celebrating that. Instead, it's just another no-argument, no POV.

History shows you need both. You can't be an elite QB if your OL is s**tting the bed. That combination is critical if you want to win a SuperBowl. That's football. But yes, Brock is the most critical piece. But make no mistake about it, the OL can undo him too, no matter how great he is. Let's hope that's not the case this year.

If no SME considered how well they would be, maybe they aren't SMEs

history shows you need a good QB and good enough OL, not the best OL

I'll just add the receivers are important. If you have a good QB, good OLine but only one or two receivers, the OLine has to pass protect longer to give the fewer recivers more time to get open (example:double moves).

Because the 49ers have so many weapons, multiple recivers are open on any given play. That helps the offensive line and the OLine stats. So as long as the 49ers OLine can give Brock a good solid 2.5 seconds, with his multiple offensive weapons - he's good. On another team, same OLine, and only one or two recivers, I'm betting not so good.

So the OLine (I still think) is still a couple of steps below the top, but still its an impressive run blocking OLine. McCaffrey isn't a possible MVP without getting those run blocks from the left side. That makes the OLine rise higher in terms of tiers.

Yes, the Skill players are more of a priority. if we replaced all our skill players with #1 OL.. the offense wouldn't be they way it is today

Well - yes - what you get in terms of having more skill players is needing less O-line talent. *However* that is going to take up a lot of cap space. Kittle, Deebo, and CMC are probably being paid 15+ million a year each (I Defer to AB81 on this), a top tier O-line might be more cap friendly.

An OLine with two McKivitz on the outside OTs and three Banks on the inside, and Ronnie Bell, Dwelly, Mason, Ray Ray, Jauan Jennings (at the skill positions) - might be more sustainable from a cap perspective than Kittle, Deebo, Aiyuk, Juszczyk and CMC all together (for example).

top players paid in any position is going to take up cap space, but who would take a top paid OL vs a top paid skill player

Cap friendly OL that is above avg is what we have now, and you see the results of having a better team all around. You don't need the best OL

Feliciano and Pryor are being paid around 3 million each. Brunskill is about 5 million. I think the cap space of spending money on the OLine and possibly losing an offensive skill postiton star is worth the loss of talent. As an example a guy like Aiyuk, I'm thinking will get around 15 to 25 million annualy on his second contract. 25 million can pay for 4 young upcoming decent OLinemen, or two pretty good OLinemen. Point being I think if you upgrade the OLine talent, you don't need as much skill position talent. At least that's my conjecture. Give Purdy 3 seconds in the pocket, he probably can move the offense with Jauan, Dwelly and Ronnie bell.

For OT's, yes, but for interior linemen, that's more headwork and teamwork than individual skills, so I don't think Kyle is ever going to agree with that. Skill positions is individual skills.

I'm 💯% for signing Aiyuk, if we can keep him. But if he's offered 25+ million and ShanaLynch is notorious for overpaying the defensive line (read Chase Young and Randy Gregory) they just might punt on Aiyuk. In other words, Kyle might not agree, but the cap might just force his hand. I hope we CAN keep Aiyuk, but if we win the super bowl, the bottom feeder poacher teams will come out of the woodwork and will raid our coaching staff and our skill player depth. 😭

Not seeing it. It's a lot easier to get close to Chase Young or Randy Gregory performance more cheaply than it is Brandon Aiyuk.