49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Giedi:
We had Brendel behind Alex when Alex retired, I guess we have McKivitz behind Trent? Man o man, that was a bad situation when that appeared against the Ravens. I feel with Brock as our franchise QB, Kyle's *got to prioritize* the offensive line position this next year. Brock's already had his elbow torn, a concussion, and several shoulder stingers, and this is only his second season playing full time. He's not exactly 240+ LB's and built like a fullback. If Kyle want's brock to play 20+ years - man o man - the OLine has to be a priority now.

those injuries werent really due to bad OL

stingers were both of scrambles concussion was due to QB sneak. The torn ligament is a definition of an unlucky play.

not saying OL wont/shouldnt be a priority just saying investing in OL doesn't really mean above wont happen

If you're scrambling isn't it because the oline was penetrated?

According to pfr we would have to have 555 dropbacks to have a 16.2% pressure rate with 90 pressures. But we as a team only have 523 total dropbacks.

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Giedi:
We had Brendel behind Alex when Alex retired, I guess we have McKivitz behind Trent? Man o man, that was a bad situation when that appeared against the Ravens. I feel with Brock as our franchise QB, Kyle's *got to prioritize* the offensive line position this next year. Brock's already had his elbow torn, a concussion, and several shoulder stingers, and this is only his second season playing full time. He's not exactly 240+ LB's and built like a fullback. If Kyle want's brock to play 20+ years - man o man - the OLine has to be a priority now.

those injuries werent really due to bad OL

stingers were both of scrambles concussion was due to QB sneak. The torn ligament is a definition of an unlucky play.

not saying OL wont/shouldnt be a priority just saying investing in OL doesn't really mean above wont happen

Why was he scrambling? Because if you notice, our QB's have been relatively healthy this year after replacing McGlinchy with McKivitz. Feliciano has given Foerster some great depth at the Guard position. Last year - three QB's went down, this year, so far all our QB's have been relatively healthy. QB injuries generally speaking - are related to bad OLine play. I just want the 49ers to avoid the Andrew Luck early retirement situation. So I've been banging, along with NC, the OLine needs to be a higher priority drum.

As much as I like Tight Ends and want another George Kittle, Kyle spent draft capital on two tight ends this year -- when that could have been spent on the offensive line.

Originally posted by Alfienator:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Giedi:
We had Brendel behind Alex when Alex retired, I guess we have McKivitz behind Trent? Man o man, that was a bad situation when that appeared against the Ravens. I feel with Brock as our franchise QB, Kyle's *got to prioritize* the offensive line position this next year. Brock's already had his elbow torn, a concussion, and several shoulder stingers, and this is only his second season playing full time. He's not exactly 240+ LB's and built like a fullback. If Kyle want's brock to play 20+ years - man o man - the OLine has to be a priority now.

those injuries werent really due to bad OL

stingers were both of scrambles concussion was due to QB sneak. The torn ligament is a definition of an unlucky play.

not saying OL wont/shouldnt be a priority just saying investing in OL doesn't really mean above wont happen

If you're scrambling isn't it because the oline was penetrated?

Agree. Jimmy got injured in the Dolphin game because the OLine broke down and he tried to scramble. Trey Lance got injured because (I think) the OLine missed a block on a QB run play. etc... Now not every QB hit is on the OLine. There are blitzes (by the CB/LB's) that can cause injury hits (for example), but by and large, the failure of the OLIne pass protection causes a lot more hits on the QB than most any other kinds of hits. It's the *hits* that cause injury, and so the best way to prevent hits is to minimize them as much as possible with a strong capable Offensive LIne.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Alfienator:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Giedi:
We had Brendel behind Alex when Alex retired, I guess we have McKivitz behind Trent? Man o man, that was a bad situation when that appeared against the Ravens. I feel with Brock as our franchise QB, Kyle's *got to prioritize* the offensive line position this next year. Brock's already had his elbow torn, a concussion, and several shoulder stingers, and this is only his second season playing full time. He's not exactly 240+ LB's and built like a fullback. If Kyle want's brock to play 20+ years - man o man - the OLine has to be a priority now.

those injuries werent really due to bad OL

stingers were both of scrambles concussion was due to QB sneak. The torn ligament is a definition of an unlucky play.

not saying OL wont/shouldnt be a priority just saying investing in OL doesn't really mean above wont happen

If you're scrambling isn't it because the oline was penetrated?

Agree. Jimmy got injured in the Dolphin game because the OLine broke down and he tried to scramble. Trey Lance got injured because (I think) the OLine missed a block on a QB run play. etc... Now not every QB hit is on the OLine. There are blitzes (by the CB/LB's) that can cause injury hits (for example), but by and large, the failure of the OLIne pass protection causes a lot more hits on the QB than most any other kinds of hits. It's the *hits* that cause injury, and so the best way to prevent hits is to minimize them as much as possible with a strong capable Offensive LIne.

QBs are always getting hit. You will never be able to protect a QB constantly. QBs gotta learn how to take hits as well, and not try to carry 300lb guys on their back.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by ritz126:
I just want to give props to OL

Brock is operating out of a lot of clean pockets

According to pro football reference Brock is the 2nd least pressured QB in NFL

He also drops back at a lower rate than anyone else. Don't get me wrong. I don't think the O line has been horrible or anything. I am just pointing out that scheme has as much to do with it as anything else.

i was specifically looking at pressure % which normalizes to dropbacks

Just out of curiousity. Where are you getting that info?

Football outsiders used to do an adjusted sack and pressure rate % that factored in drop backs

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Football outsiders used to do an adjusted sack and pressure rate % that factored in drop backs

Once the tiers came into play tho they realized all their work was now obsolete.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by ritz126:
I just want to give props to OL

Brock is operating out of a lot of clean pockets

According to pro football reference Brock is the 2nd least pressured QB in NFL

He also drops back at a lower rate than anyone else. Don't get me wrong. I don't think the O line has been horrible or anything. I am just pointing out that scheme has as much to do with it as anything else.

i was specifically looking at pressure % which normalizes to dropbacks

Just out of curiousity. Where are you getting that info?

Football outsiders used to do an adjusted sack and pressure rate % that factored in drop backs

Imo, the best way to judge the O line's pass pro is to use only true pass set pressure stats. That omits things like playaction and screen passes.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I obviously don't. Please explain.

A couple things to note:

The poster is mistakingly looking @ our pressure rates from 2022,...lol.

We're in 2023 and the site has us @ 17th in the league @ 19.9%. (This coincides pretty well with holding onto the ball a little longer with the big plays Brock has been producing)

The tallies PFR has as of now:


The pressure % goes up as the times pressured goes up. It's a rate, so they are only dependent on each other.

The percentage of drop backs relates to the total plays ran,... NOT the pressures. There is no real link between pressures and the # of plays an offense has ran. You would naturally expect more pressures for more drop backs,...but there is no point in discussing it and we might as well discuss what's actually happened.

As for why the chart you showed has DB as 184 when he's thrown 444 passes thus far,...you are free to discuss and explain. But obviously the two websites are looking at things differently.

Neither one has to be "right" or "wrong" depending on interpretation.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Imo, the best way to judge the O line's pass pro is to use only true pass set pressure stats. That omits things like playaction and screen passes.

Seems reasonable to me. Other good points brought up in here too: scheme, emphasis on quick TTT, RAC monsters who you can do that with, reality of PP, volume of passes, run blocking, depth, etc. Good discussion. Better than the usual trolls. Happy new year.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Football outsiders used to do an adjusted sack and pressure rate % that factored in drop backs

Once the tiers came into play tho they realized all their work was now obsolete.

Lol I remember someone used to get so pissy when we would post them and it blew their theories out of the water. Also was a time when someone used sacks as the benchmark 🤣

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I obviously don't. Please explain.

A couple things to note:

The poster is mistakingly looking @ our pressure rates from 2022,...lol.

We're in 2023 and the site has us @ 17th in the league @ 19.9%. (This coincides pretty well with holding onto the ball a little longer with the big plays Brock has been producing)

The tallies PFR has as of now:


The pressure % goes up as the times pressured goes up. It's a rate, so they are only dependent on each other.

The percentage of drop backs relates to the total plays ran,... NOT the pressures. There is no real link between pressures and the # of plays an offense has ran. You would naturally expect more pressures for more drop backs,...but there is no point in discussing it and we might as well discuss what's actually happened.

As for why the chart you showed has DB as 184 when he's thrown 444 passes thus far,...you are free to discuss and explain. But obviously the two websites are looking at things differently.

Neither one has to be "right" or "wrong" depending on interpretation.

Well the # of dropbacks has slightly changed due to pff not updating their stats until a couple of hours ago. I posted that before the update. The 184 was the # of dropbacks he was pressured on and not the total number of dropbacks. After the update for yesterday's game, Brock has been pressured on 192 of his 498 dropbacks this season which is a rate of 38.6%. If we add in Darnold, he has been pressured on 11 of his 24 dropbacks. 49ers QB's have been pressured on 203 of 522 total dropbacks which is a 38.9% pressure rate.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I obviously don't. Please explain.

A couple things to note:

The poster is mistakingly looking @ our pressure rates from 2022,...lol.

We're in 2023 and the site has us @ 17th in the league @ 19.9%. (This coincides pretty well with holding onto the ball a little longer with the big plays Brock has been producing)

The tallies PFR has as of now:


The pressure % goes up as the times pressured goes up. It's a rate, so they are only dependent on each other.

The percentage of drop backs relates to the total plays ran,... NOT the pressures. There is no real link between pressures and the # of plays an offense has ran. You would naturally expect more pressures for more drop backs,...but there is no point in discussing it and we might as well discuss what's actually happened.

As for why the chart you showed has DB as 184 when he's thrown 444 passes thus far,...you are free to discuss and explain. But obviously the two websites are looking at things differently.

Neither one has to be "right" or "wrong" depending on interpretation.

Well the # of dropbacks has slightly changed due to pff not updating their stats until a couple of hours ago. I posted that before the update. The 184 was the # of dropbacks he was pressured on and not the total number of dropbacks. After the update for yesterday's game, Brock has been pressured on 192 of his 498 dropbacks this season which is a rate of 38.6%. If we add in Darnold, he has been pressured on 11 of his 24 dropbacks. 49ers QB's have been pressured on 203 of 522 total dropbacks which is a 38.9% pressure rate.

Ouch. Do we have an idea what the league average is here? Or rank (same concept).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I obviously don't. Please explain.

A couple things to note:

The poster is mistakingly looking @ our pressure rates from 2022,...lol.

We're in 2023 and the site has us @ 17th in the league @ 19.9%. (This coincides pretty well with holding onto the ball a little longer with the big plays Brock has been producing)

The tallies PFR has as of now:


The pressure % goes up as the times pressured goes up. It's a rate, so they are only dependent on each other.

The percentage of drop backs relates to the total plays ran,... NOT the pressures. There is no real link between pressures and the # of plays an offense has ran. You would naturally expect more pressures for more drop backs,...but there is no point in discussing it and we might as well discuss what's actually happened.

As for why the chart you showed has DB as 184 when he's thrown 444 passes thus far,...you are free to discuss and explain. But obviously the two websites are looking at things differently.

Neither one has to be "right" or "wrong" depending on interpretation.

Well the # of dropbacks has slightly changed due to pff not updating their stats until a couple of hours ago. I posted that before the update. The 184 was the # of dropbacks he was pressured on and not the total number of dropbacks. After the update for yesterday's game, Brock has been pressured on 192 of his 498 dropbacks this season which is a rate of 38.6%. If we add in Darnold, he has been pressured on 11 of his 24 dropbacks. 49ers QB's have been pressured on 203 of 522 total dropbacks which is a 38.9% pressure rate.

Ouch. Do we have an idea what the league average is here? Or rank (same concept).

Brock is currently ranked the 14th highest pressured QB (38.6%) out of 41 qualifying QB's and has the 13th most pressured dropbacks (192) in the league.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Well the # of dropbacks has slightly changed due to pff not updating their stats until a couple of hours ago. I posted that before the update. The 184 was the # of dropbacks he was pressured on and not the total number of dropbacks. After the update for yesterday's game, Brock has been pressured on 192 of his 498 dropbacks this season which is a rate of 38.6%. If we add in Darnold, he has been pressured on 11 of his 24 dropbacks. 49ers QB's have been pressured on 203 of 522 total dropbacks which is a 38.9% pressure rate.

"498" dropbacks,...ok,...PFR currently has him for a few less drop backs than 498.

So there is some disagreement there,...which is plenty okay. Between him and Darnold,....PFR has 102 total pressures, but Brock alone, another website has 192 pressures.

PFR adds up Sacks, Hurries, and Scrambles as pressures,...and I'm 100% fine with that, because I know where they are getting their numbers from.

PFF can be a little more controversial as they like to "protect" their content ($$$), while PFR likes to utilize more straight-forward numbers and facts. Even so....if the 192 is thoroughly accounted for,..that is fine as well.

There's no definable, set definition for "pressure" that will ever be universally accepted by every website,...especially when some of them are there to monopolize. It's all about understanding where the #'s come from and not misinterpreting or trying to mix one website's stuff with another,...not understanding that they calculate their totals differently.