49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
And this is where I have my concerns with Wilks. All
the other DCs were in house and everything just continued seamlessly. This season is uneven imo, but to sit and b***h about the D and whine about "gazillion resources"is just more sour grapes because Lynch didn't follow some WZ experts plan

I think the D has been better than the first half of the year too, where I had legitimate worries. My only hesitation is we haven't played many very good offenses. We may not all the way through the SB though.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
And this is where I have my concerns with Wilks. All
the other DCs were in house and everything just continued seamlessly. This season is uneven imo, but to sit and b***h about the D and whine about "gazillion resources"is just more sour grapes because Lynch didn't follow some WZ experts plan

I think the D has been better than the first half of the year too, where I had legitimate worries. My only hesitation is we haven't played many very good offenses. We may not all the way through the SB though.

Agreed

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
The only concerning part is we don't attack the QB, we just contain them

we have more sacks than last year

We do and in less games. But in all honestly, there is this hunger and expectation for more. On paper Bosa, Young, Gregory, Hargrave, Armstead > Bosa, Omenihu, Ebukam, Armstead.

I went back and looked, so we have 2 more sacks than last year, with two more games to go. Since Chase Young joined us, we have 28 sacks in 7 games. Since Gregory joined us, 32 sacks in 10 games.

Maybe it's Bosa's numbers being down or Chase Young seemingly having minimal impact, but the numbers pressure rates have been there all year and the sacks numbers show this is a damn good defense (particularly looking at the last 7). I stated in another post turnover numbers are up (more than last season with 1 game to go), but for whatever reason, it still seems like this defense hasn't peaked. I suppose we are looking for more games like the Dallas, Phily, and Jacksonville games.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
The only concerning part is we don't attack the QB, we just contain them

we have more sacks than last year

True, but we're still not attacking. It's mostly bull rush and close in the pocket.

while it works for running QBs, I hate it when we use it against pocket QBs

That's in part, one of the concerns. Lynch himself has talked countless times about wanting closers on defense along the DL. That cost us in the Superbowl a while back. Do we have that now? After 16 games, I still can't answer that.

For those criticizing the defense.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
For those criticizing the defense.

I'll borrow this one.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
For those criticizing the defense.

Awesome

Originally posted by tohara3:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
For those criticizing the defense.

Awesome

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
The only concerning part is we don't attack the QB, we just contain them

we have more sacks than last year

True, but we're still not attacking. It's mostly bull rush and close in the pocket.

while it works for running QBs, I hate it when we use it against pocket QBs

That's in part, one of the concerns. Lynch himself has talked countless times about wanting closers on defense along the DL. That cost us in the Superbowl a while back. Do we have that now? After 16 games, I still can't answer that.

Between the above post and mine detailing interception and sack numbers, I'd argue yes. Since Chase Young has joined this D, the sack numbers over a full season would be 68. For comparison's sake, Philly had 70 last year. And our interception numbers eclipse theirs. It seems every metric is stating we are far better than we think we are, but the playoffs will tell the final story if we truly have enough. Numbers say we should, on both sides of the ball.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
And this is where I have my concerns with Wilks. All
the other DCs were in house and everything just continued seamlessly. This season is uneven imo, but to sit and b***h about the D and whine about "gazillion resources"is just more sour grapes because Lynch didn't follow some WZ experts plan

The back 7 on D and skill guys on O matter too despite what some think.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Between the above post and mine detailing interception and sack numbers, I'd argue yes. Since Chase Young has joined this D, the sack numbers over a full season would be 68. For comparison's sake, Philly had 70 last year. And our interception numbers eclipse theirs. It seems every metric is stating we are far better than we think we are, but the playoffs will tell the final story if we truly have enough. Numbers say we should, on both sides of the ball.

Not every metric is showing we are far better than we think we are… depending on 'where we think we are' actually means.

I think that 4th quarter ppg stat goes to the conversation I was having with Ritz earlier though. Having big leads helps your defense, and garbage time has not been particularly fruitful for opposing offenses against us this year.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Too bad nobody wants to talk our DL. It's been pretty underwhelming this year esp. regarding ROI.

I mean we've allowed 5 teams to score over 20 pts whole yr the (2 teams with over 30 and that's with multiple TOs).

id saying overall the DL and everyone else on D has been more than fine.

For the gazillion resources that have gone into it, it's definitely not the dominant Tampa Bay Bucs DL Lynch had been trying to build. I'm not saying it's bad but for ROI, it's pretty meh.

Agree, and I'll just add that teams are playing the 49er defense *differently* because they know the DLine - if they just stand back and pass without more - this DLine is good enough to get to the QB. I.e. more short passing and more mixture of runs and passes on first down to shorten up those 3rd down situations. Chase and Gregory have helped the DLine, though. Rotationally and overall lifted the bottom up, in a sense, so you have much deeper and more solid DLine rotation. Having said that - yup - for all the top end draft picks/cap space they've spent on the DLine, it's been disappointing. Dee Ford, Kinlaw, Solomon, Drake - they just haven't hit on them as expected.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
We're not as strong in DVOA or EPA. It's pretty clear the defense isn't as good as it has been, but it's still good.

The 'concerning' part would be that this defense is arguably the most talented of the Kyle era.

one part of the construction that may be an achilles heel is we don't have much run stuff up front, AA is like The Guy, and he's out

Arik is a big part of this run and pass defense - and when he's out, this defense isn't what it can be for sure. I don't like the Wide 9 on run plays, it's so schematically weak against the inside runs - it's a wonder we're not dead last in run yardage given up.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Arik is a big part of this run and pass defense - and when he's out, this defense isn't what it can be for sure. I don't like the Wide 9 on run plays, it's so schematically weak against the inside runs - it's a wonder we're not dead last in run yardage given up.

We're 18th in opponents yards per attempt. But last in the league in opponent attempts overall…

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Based on actual results, the DL and defense have played better than last year.

defenses to stay dominant in back to back years is not an easy task. To continue that dominance is actually proof of ROI

We're not as strong in DVOA or EPA. It's pretty clear the defense isn't as good as it has been, but it's still good.

The 'concerning' part would be that this defense is arguably the most talented of the Kyle era.

And this is where I have my concerns with Wilks. All
the other DCs were in house and everything just continued seamlessly. This season is uneven imo, but to sit and b***h about the D and whine about "gazillion resources"is just more sour grapes because Lynch didn't follow some WZ experts plan

Agree about the unevenness, and I think it's more about Wilk's having a more 3-4 kind of mindset vs the 4-3 wide 9. In other words I think there was a bit of an adjustment for Wilks in adapting to this Wide 9 defense, from the Ron Rivera linebacker-centric defense. Personally, for me, it's how those DT's have to be two gappers AND also one gap penetrators in this defense. Add in that the linebackers in this defense basically have to run blitz every run play, in a sense, for them to stop the run with this crazy scheme. For a guy with a defensive back kind of history - that might take some adjustments on his part.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Arik is a big part of this run and pass defense - and when he's out, this defense isn't what it can be for sure. I don't like the Wide 9 on run plays, it's so schematically weak against the inside runs - it's a wonder we're not dead last in run yardage given up.

We're 18th in opponents yards per attempt. But last in the league in opponent attempts overall…

Personally, I think the Wide 9 is a pass rush alignment - not a run stopping alignment - and with the 49er offense playing keep away, the DLine and the defense is focused on taking away. (and that's how they stop the run - with the offense) That's the synergy that I think Kyle is trying to create with the complementariness of his overall (offensive and defensive) scheme. The way the Wide 9 has to stop the run is basically all front seven players run blitz because the DLine spits are so wide. Defense almost has to guess the run before it happens to stop the run.

Anyway, it makes sense to do the Wide 9 as most teams are passing on almost every down nowadays.