49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
>>Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
We're not, but that doesn't answer what is sub par and Purdy decisions throw INTs<<

I'm not the only one saying that.

A second factor is that the Niners are a decidedly left-handed team running the ball. The foundational concept of Shanahan's scheme is unpredictability. An investment in the right side of the line would restore balance to the force, they could run left or right with equal success.
https://www.si.com/nfl/49ers/news/progress-and-barriers-on-the-49ers-quest-for-six

We do also run to the right, not as much but it's not 100%

but what is sub par?

Here you go.

adjective

• Below an average, usual, or normal level, quality, or the like; below par: This month his performance has been subpar. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/subpar#google_vignette

great. so how would a below avg OL be able to win 12 games, lead the league in rushing, passing, have 4 1k yard players and 2 MVP candidates ?

also, how does a below avg line have better results than Tier 1 OLs ?

the math just doesn't add up

So you think the 49ers OLine played elite in the 49ers losses this season?

Does it have to be below avg or elite as the options to choose between ? that's pretty extreme

I've been saying we are towards the top in OL (not the best or elite) the last few years and QB play was the missing element.

one thing for sure is that we are not sub par.. unless par is being number 1 and not 16. We also can't have the offense production like have had with a below avg OL

Take out Trent Williams, and I think our OLine becomes average. Take out Banks, and it becomes sub par. Just my opinon, of course.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by NCommand:
TBF, I don't know how they had Philly #1 start to finish. They've really fallen off from last year IMHO. Then again, I don't watch every single snap of every OL and unit across the league either nor have that technical expertise. So

Well without watching the snaps, and lacking the technical expertise (no criticisms there), what is your basis for saying they've really fallen off this season? It can't just be their results as a team I hope.

This should be good

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
You just seem to be prepped to assign a future loss to the lack of having a dominant line. Similar to others who are waiting to jump on Kyle… or Brock.

Smokey has cracked the code.

We have also learned that someone doesn't actually agree with how his go to SME, that he's arrogantly shoved down everyone throat all season, ranks these OLs.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
You just seem to be prepped to assign a future loss to the lack of having a dominant line. Similar to others who are waiting to jump on Kyle… or Brock.

Smokey has cracked the code.

Is he wrong tho, in terms of a future loss?

I watched our losses this year. 65 team rush yds, with a MVP convo HOF RB, and a MVP convo QB.
all our losses we were running into the brick wall
or I believe it was 20 for 50 in the NFCCG, do the math on that one (the YPC math)...

not saying this is guaranteed, but there is a trend here..
AA talked about team rush yds, and the correlation of how it relates to winning, it's often what the game comes down to, I would say team rush yds, and TO battle are of the highest correlation, aside from points

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Well yea. You can never be wrong when you are the thread gate keeper and continue to change the narrative to suit your argument.

Nobody changed a narrative. I've been very consistent across the board.

And aren't you the one who's been saying this is really a tier 4 OL mainly d/t the PP?

I never changed my stance on where I believe the O line is ranked. I just don't believe you need a top 2 O line to win the SB. I believe you can win inspite of an average to below average O line. I believe QB and defense are far more important.

Just my opinion, but you can't get to the super bowl if your OLine is subPar. There are too many elite passing defenses in the playoffs to survive the playoffs with a sub-par OLine. OLine has to be good or better to survive the playoffs and get to the big dance. Maybe QB or Defense *may* even it up if any *one* or all *three* are generational - but that's rare.

Maybe not subpar. I admit I was being a bit extreme with that take. But our line is average with Trent and below average without him. I think having Trent really does make the difference. With our defense + holy trinity (Trent, Brock & CMC) we have the best chance of anyone to win the SB this year.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Maybe not subpar. I admit I was being a bit extreme with that take. But our line is average with Trent and below average without him. I think having Trent really does make the difference. With our defense + holy trinity (Trent, Brock & CMC) we have the best chance of anyone to win the SB this year.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
You just seem to be prepped to assign a future loss to the lack of having a dominant line. Similar to others who are waiting to jump on Kyle… or Brock.

Smokey has cracked the code.

He's ready and waiting....lol.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Is he wrong tho, in terms of a future loss?

I watched our losses this year. 65 team rush yds, with a MVP convo HOF RB, and a MVP convo QB.
all our losses we were running into the brick wall
or I believe it was 20 for 50 in the NFCCG, do the math on that one (the YPC math)...

not saying this is guaranteed, but there is a trend here..
AA talked about team rush yds, and the correlation of how it relates to winning, it's often what the game comes down to, I would say team rush yds, and TO battle are of the highest correlation, aside from points

How can I be wrong about a future loss that hasn't even happened? The point is to watch the games and evaluate what happens in the games. Not identify what you think are problematic areas of the team and then assign blame to them regardless of what happens in a game. That was the point of my post. NC's wording, like others in the Kyle or QB conversations, seems to indicate/imply that if we don't win it will be because of this problem he has with the team. Wait and see first.

The rest of your points here and results from weeks or even months ago, and certainly in previous years, really don't indicate a thing about what's going to happen going forward. Hell the games you referenced from earlier this season were played without Trent Williams, who is currently healthy. Even then, although the run game certainly suffered, OL performance wasn't necessarily the reason we lost those games. There were many factors including turnovers from QB… substandard defense…

Originally posted by Giedi:
Take out Trent Williams, and I think our OLine becomes average. Take out Banks, and it becomes sub par. Just my opinon, of course.

Take the best player from every team and see what they become?

I say this every time this is my response.

No one exercises this "game" or furthers the point. Truthfully, there is no point.

We had an awesome SB team with Steve Young.

But you take Deion Sanders away the following 2 years and you also took away SB Ring #6 and #7 and handed it to the Cowboys.

So what is this thing about taking great players away all about? It makes completely no sense.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Good to know the niners actually have a chance now since apparently there are no tier 1 OL/QB combos. Seems like just yesterday they had no shot strictly because of their OL. Phew

Lions are the future Super Bowl champs just accept it.

Nah, Lions have a tier 1 OL but not QB. Same with the Eagles. 3 teams with tier 2 OL's have tier 1 QB's. The formula of the past 7 years will not apply this year.

This is our year.

Yet you bet on us that it wasn't our year, remember your bet ? You have Philly and Det

I bet assuming there would be another tier 1 OL + QB combo like the previous 7 years (all Superbowl winners). That didn't happen this year. As far as I'm concerned, the formula did not work this year and I already lost the bet even if one of my 2 teams ends up going further.

It could be injuries causing the fluctuation of the OLine strength.

Wow. Injuries are new to professional tackle football? Well okay then...

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Is he wrong tho, in terms of a future loss?

I watched our losses this year. 65 team rush yds, with a MVP convo HOF RB, and a MVP convo QB.
all our losses we were running into the brick wall
or I believe it was 20 for 50 in the NFCCG, do the math on that one (the YPC math)...

not saying this is guaranteed, but there is a trend here..
AA talked about team rush yds, and the correlation of how it relates to winning, it's often what the game comes down to, I would say team rush yds, and TO battle are of the highest correlation, aside from points

How can I be wrong about a future loss that hasn't even happened? The point is to watch the games and evaluate what happens in the games. Not identify what you think are problematic areas of the team and then assign blame to them regardless of what happens in a game. That was the point of my post. NC's wording, like others in the Kyle or QB conversations, indicate that if we don't win it will be because of this problem he has with the team. Wait and see first.

The rest of your points here and results from weeks or even months ago, and certainly in previous years, really don't indicate a thing about what's going to happen going forward. Hell the games you referenced from earlier this season were played without Trent Williams, who is currently healthy. Even then, although the run game certainly suffered, OL performance wasn't necessarily the reason we lost those games. There were many factors including turnovers from QB… substandard defense…

No one is assigning blame regardless, that's where you are off. I am saying that in the Ls we have had, I know what the issues were, imo at least..
so if one considers the way in which we lose, there are some culprits that are perhaps more likely than others, that's all I am suggesting
NC just earlier today, admitted losing some bet of some sort, so he doesn't strike me as the type to stick with a narrative, even if the facts are glaringly in opposition..

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Is he wrong tho, in terms of a future loss?

I watched our losses this year. 65 team rush yds, with a MVP convo HOF RB, and a MVP convo QB.
all our losses we were running into the brick wall
or I believe it was 20 for 50 in the NFCCG, do the math on that one (the YPC math)...

not saying this is guaranteed, but there is a trend here..
AA talked about team rush yds, and the correlation of how it relates to winning, it's often what the game comes down to, I would say team rush yds, and TO battle are of the highest correlation, aside from points

How can I be wrong about a future loss that hasn't even happened? The point is to watch the games and evaluate what happens in the games. Not identify what you think are problematic areas of the team and then assign blame to them regardless of what happens in a game. That was the point of my post. NC's wording, like others in the Kyle or QB conversations, indicate that if we don't win it will be because of this problem he has with the team. Wait and see first.

The rest of your points here and results from weeks or even months ago, and certainly in previous years, really don't indicate a thing about what's going to happen going forward. Hell the games you referenced from earlier this season were played without Trent Williams, who is currently healthy. Even then, although the run game certainly suffered, OL performance wasn't necessarily the reason we lost those games. There were many factors including turnovers from QB… substandard defense…

No one is assigning blame regardless, that's where you are off.

He's not at all off. He's observing the same thing many of us have observed and pointed out. You've skipped right over the proof of these posts CONSTANTLY.

And let's be honest,...skipping over proof is your expertise,...haha.

But yea we cant see the same stuff in a thread month in, month out,...then suddenly pretend like it's not happening. Everyone knows that you can,...but some of us would like a little more accountability added for boldish claims repeated here ad nauseum.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
No one is assigning blame regardless, that's where you are off. I am saying that in the Ls we have had, I know what the issues were, imo at least..
so if one considers the way in which we lose, there are some culprits that are perhaps more likely than others, that's all I am suggesting
NC just earlier today, admitted losing some bet of some sort, so he doesn't strike me as the type to stick with a narrative, even if the facts are glaringly in opposition..

Am I off? I responded to a specific post that I felt indicated that the performance of the OL will dictate whether we ultimately win or lose.

Beyond that I think it's pretty obvious based on this very long running argument that previous shortcomings, in years past, were primarily blamed on the OL by some people… which I would absolutely disagree with.

Originally posted by random49er:
He's not at all off. He's observing the same thing many of us have observed and pointed out. You've skipped right over the proof of these posts CONSTANTLY.

And let's be honest,...skipping over proof is your expertise,...haha.

But yea we cant see the same stuff in a thread month in, month out,...then suddenly pretend like it's not happening. Everyone knows that you can,...but some of us would like a little more accountability added for boldish claims repeated here ad nauseum.

if he's assigning blame for Ls, when stuff like that 3 game losing streak or the NFCCG vs LAR, then yeah he's all over it, and spot on, to point at OL issues.
You all may take exception that he's running laps around you guys, perhaps, but that's not my issue.. and I'm not into the whole history of the debates..

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
if he's assigning blame for Ls, when stuff like that 3 game losing streak or the NFCCG vs LAR, then yeah he's all over it, and spot on, to point at OL issues.
You all may take exception that he's running laps around you guys, perhaps, but that's not my issue.. and I'm not into the whole history of the debates..

This is pretty off. First of all the discussion currently is about what lies ahead, not either of your interpretations of why we lost in the past.

As far as whether or not he's running laps around other people here (lol), I was willing to put money against it. 4x what we actually bet.