49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
with AA having chronic issues now we should spend our 1st rounder on the dline.

You know. This seems like a bold new strategy. We should try it!

Originally posted by NCommand:
As I say with every loss, when this team loses, it's almost always a full team collapse. But there are usual suspects and you can assign your weight as you see fit. In a passing league, that's going to be a QB, his OL, secondary and consequently, a DL that isn't getting home.

Word salad.

We have all been on the board after losses. We have all checked in during some phases during the offseason. We all see the gatekeeping and "management" of the subject matter here.

What you said above "sounds nice",...but again,...it doesnt really reflect what goes on here.

My argument is if the O line looks the same whether we win or lose, how can they be responsible for the loss? If they play the same in both cases, they are the constant. Its usually something else that is the variable and a bigger reason for the loss.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
My argument is if the O line looks the same whether we win or lose, how can they be responsible for the loss? If they play the same in both cases, they are the constant. Its usually something else that is the variable and a bigger reason for the loss.

He said he doesn't watch and isn't a expert, so it's pretty much all hearsay when he posts and pretends it's fact

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
As I say with every loss, when this team loses, it's almost always a full team collapse. But there are usual suspects and you can assign your weight as you see fit. In a passing league, that's going to be a QB, his OL, secondary and consequently, a DL that isn't getting home.

Word salad.

We have all been on the board after losses. We have all checked in during some phases during the offseason. We all see the gatekeeping and "management" of the subject matter here.

What you said above "sounds nice",...but again,...it doesnt really reflect what goes on here.

He's been given film, hard stat facts, comparisons you name it and yet he's ignores the truth of what actually happened in the games we discuss.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
My argument is if the O line looks the same whether we win or lose, how can they be responsible for the loss? If they play the same in both cases, they are the constant. Its usually something else that is the variable and a bigger reason for the loss.

This is faulty logic. The only way this would makes sense is if all of our opponents were the exact same talent level and scheme. The O-Line can look great as we thump an inferior opponent. The O-Line will be much more severely tested when we play a better team, especially one with a great pass rush. Their play may be constant, but clearly an inferior O-Line that gets upgraded should do better against the better teams. Talent of the O-Line is for sure a contributing factor in our success.....it's not the only factor, but it is definitely a factor.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
This new tier 1 OL+QB combo is a very recent thing and not part of the equation last 7 years. When I initially proposed the bet up until you took it, this was strictly a tier 1 OL thing on his end. Don't let him gaslight you lol

No no no. At time of bet who could've foreseen Jared Goff not achieving elite tier 1 status.

And right on cue he just contradicted himself again 🤣

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
My argument is if the O line looks the same whether we win or lose, how can they be responsible for the loss? If they play the same in both cases, they are the constant. Its usually something else that is the variable and a bigger reason for the loss.

This is faulty logic. The only way this would makes sense is if all of our opponents were the exact same talent level and scheme. The O-Line can look great as we thump an inferior opponent. The O-Line will be much more severely tested when we play a better team, especially one with a great pass rush. Their play may be constant, but clearly an inferior O-Line that gets upgraded should do better against the better teams. Talent of the O-Line is for sure a contributing factor in our success.....it's not the only factor, but it is definitely a factor.

I have created two charts based on NC's criteria for winning a SB. He stated that our Achilles heel is when we have to go off script and every down becomes an obvious passing down. One chart is based on the O line's ability to protect in obvious passing situations and one chart based on how well a QB plays under pressure. I created overall rankings for each. I used hurries, hits and sack rates for the O line rankings. I used TD, INT and 1stD rates for QB rankings. This is my overall rankings when combining true pass set O line rankings + QB pressure rankings.



According to NC's criteria, Cowboys should beat the Ravens in the SB.

I have the separate charts for O line's and QB's if anyone is interested in those.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I have created two charts based on NC's criteria for winning a SB. He stated that our Achilles heel is when we have to go off script and every down becomes an obvious passing down. One chart is based on the O line's ability to protect in obvious passing situations and one chart based on how well a QB plays under pressure. I created overall rankings for each. I used hurries, hits and sack rates for the O line rankings. I used TD, INT and 1stD rates for QB rankings. This is my overall rankings when combining true pass set O line rankings + QB pressure rankings.



According to NC's criteria, Cowboys should beat the Ravens in the SB.

I have the separate charts for O line's and QB's if anyone is interested in those.

Hey, that's really cool. Yeah, I can't speak to other teams but in SF, should a team get us off script, which is rare, that does highlight our weaknesses on the OL and is the best recipe for defeat. Thanks for doing this. That's important to know for the playoff run.

Based on just this, it probably wouldn't surprise anyone if any of those top 4 teams made the Superbowl.

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
My argument is if the O line looks the same whether we win or lose, how can they be responsible for the loss? If they play the same in both cases, they are the constant. Its usually something else that is the variable and a bigger reason for the loss.

This is faulty logic. The only way this would makes sense is if all of our opponents were the exact same talent level and scheme. The O-Line can look great as we thump an inferior opponent. The O-Line will be much more severely tested when we play a better team, especially one with a great pass rush. Their play may be constant, but clearly an inferior O-Line that gets upgraded should do better against the better teams. Talent of the O-Line is for sure a contributing factor in our success.....it's not the only factor, but it is definitely a factor.

I could easily find a game this season where the O line played poorly and we won against a superior defense and I can find a game where the O line played poorly and we lost against a superior defense. I can also find a win where the O line played well against an inferior defense and a loss where the O line played well against an inferior defense.

Halfway through this season I posted a true pass set pressure rankings chart and the 49ers O line was ranked 22nd in the league. I just finished up my end of season true pass set pressure rankings chart and guess what? the 49ers O line is still ranked 22nd in the league.

My main issue is that no one complains about the O line no matter how poor they play unless we lose. As if there weren't more concerning factors that played into the loss.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
My argument is if the O line looks the same whether we win or lose, how can they be responsible for the loss? If they play the same in both cases, they are the constant. Its usually something else that is the variable and a bigger reason for the loss.

This is faulty logic. The only way this would makes sense is if all of our opponents were the exact same talent level and scheme. The O-Line can look great as we thump an inferior opponent. The O-Line will be much more severely tested when we play a better team, especially one with a great pass rush. Their play may be constant, but clearly an inferior O-Line that gets upgraded should do better against the better teams. Talent of the O-Line is for sure a contributing factor in our success.....it's not the only factor, but it is definitely a factor.

I could easily find a game this season where the O line played poorly and we won against a superior defense and I can find a game where the O line played poorly and we lost against a superior defense. I can also find a win where the O line played well against an inferior defense and a loss where the O line played well against an inferior defense.

Halfway through this season I posted a true pass set pressure rankings chart and the 49ers O line was ranked 22nd in the league. I just finished up my end of season true pass set pressure rankings chart and guess what? the 49ers O line is still ranked 22nd in the league.

My main issue is that no one complains about the O line no matter how poor they play unless we lose. As if there weren't more concerning factors that played into the loss.

This is very true unfortunately. And hell yes there are a myriad reasons for a loss. I wished they were all discussed because IMHO, it tends to be a pretty big grocery list when we do.

QB, OL and Secondary is probably just easier to talk about for most because they are repeat offenders over the years and areas the FO has chosen to prioritize less in their team building strategy.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I have created two charts based on NC's criteria for winning a SB. He stated that our Achilles heel is when we have to go off script and every down becomes an obvious passing down. One chart is based on the O line's ability to protect in obvious passing situations and one chart based on how well a QB plays under pressure. I created overall rankings for each. I used hurries, hits and sack rates for the O line rankings. I used TD, INT and 1stD rates for QB rankings. This is my overall rankings when combining true pass set O line rankings + QB pressure rankings.



According to NC's criteria, Cowboys should beat the Ravens in the SB.

I have the separate charts for O line's and QB's if anyone is interested in those.

Hey, that's really cool. Yeah, I can't speak to other teams but in SF, should a team get us off script, which is rare, that does highlight our weaknesses on the OL and is the best recipe for defeat. Thanks for doing this. That's important to know for the playoff run.

Based on just this, it probably wouldn't surprise anyone if any of those top 4 teams made the Superbowl.

I understand that you cannot speak for other teams but I think you and I can agree that the elite QB's in this league are the one's who perform the best when under pressure. Obviously you think that the O line is a bit more important than I do. However, I think this chart sums up what your criteria for winning a SB is? If I am missing something please let me know. I will tweak it to your satisfaction. I would really like to end this debate about tier 1 O line + tier 1 QB = super bowl. I know that you stated that there isn't a tier 1 O line + tier 1 QB combo in the NFL this season. But it should suffice that one of these top 2 teams on my chart should win it all according to your theory.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
My argument is if the O line looks the same whether we win or lose, how can they be responsible for the loss? If they play the same in both cases, they are the constant. Its usually something else that is the variable and a bigger reason for the loss.

This is faulty logic. The only way this would makes sense is if all of our opponents were the exact same talent level and scheme. The O-Line can look great as we thump an inferior opponent. The O-Line will be much more severely tested when we play a better team, especially one with a great pass rush. Their play may be constant, but clearly an inferior O-Line that gets upgraded should do better against the better teams. Talent of the O-Line is for sure a contributing factor in our success.....it's not the only factor, but it is definitely a factor.

I could easily find a game this season where the O line played poorly and we won against a superior defense and I can find a game where the O line played poorly and we lost against a superior defense. I can also find a win where the O line played well against an inferior defense and a loss where the O line played well against an inferior defense.

Halfway through this season I posted a true pass set pressure rankings chart and the 49ers O line was ranked 22nd in the league. I just finished up my end of season true pass set pressure rankings chart and guess what? the 49ers O line is still ranked 22nd in the league.

My main issue is that no one complains about the O line no matter how poor they play unless we lose. As if there weren't more concerning factors that played into the loss.

This is very true unfortunately. And hell yes there are a myriad reasons for a loss. I wished they were all discussed because IMHO, it tends to be a pretty big grocery list when we do.

QB, OL and Secondary is probably just easier to talk about for most because they are repeat offenders over the years and areas the FO has chosen to prioritize less in their team building strategy.

I am one of the biggest Kyle Shanahan advocates on this site. However, I get hammered by several posters when I criticize anything about him, including a game plan that I believe was a big reason for a loss. So it seems as though some topics are just not allowed to be brought up.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Hey, that's really cool. Yeah, I can't speak to other teams but in SF.......

" can't speak to other teams"

He is a Forensa49erOlogist.