49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I stated my case and you all just ignore it and call me an idiot. Why do I need to provide film? Everyone else was using merely total passing yards as a rebuttal to my argument. In fact, that was the basis of their entire argument. My argument included the ravens defensive strengths as well as weaknesses. I also provided points on what our strengths are and how they are a favorable matchup for the ravens weaknesses. I provided quantifiable data to back up my argument. Than I reenforced my argument by explaining how many times the ravens got their hands (a strength) on the ball in that game. I didn't just provide the INT's as they defended quite a few of our other passes as well. They also had 9 QB hits (another strength). Why heavily attack an opponents strengths when the better matchup is to attack their weakness with our strength? Total passing yards is not enough evidence to contradict my argument. I am going to need film to take you all seriously. Just my $0.02.

It's not so much about total yards. It's more the idea that the gameplan was effective and outlier poor execution (and some bad luck) was the primary reason we failed.

That is the issue. You say it's LUCK that the ravens got their hands on so many passes. I say it's the ravens STRENGTH as to the reason why they got their hands on so many passes. Are you that reluctant to give the ravens any credit that you have boiled your argument down to the 49ers just having bad luck?

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I stated my case and you all just ignore it and call me an idiot. Why do I need to provide film? Everyone else was using merely total passing yards as a rebuttal to my argument. In fact, that was the basis of their entire argument. My argument included the ravens defensive strengths as well as weaknesses. I also provided points on what our strengths are and how they are a favorable matchup for the ravens weaknesses. I provided quantifiable data to back up my argument. Than I reenforced my argument by explaining how many times the ravens got their hands (a strength) on the ball in that game. I didn't just provide the INT's as they defended quite a few of our other passes as well. They also had 9 QB hits (another strength). Why heavily attack an opponents strengths when the better matchup is to attack their weakness with our strength? Total passing yards is not enough evidence to contradict my argument. I am going to need film to take you all seriously. Just my $0.02.

1) Speaking of a single game,.....Using situational yards can count as a valid rebuttal to a claim saying why we lost,... without counting as proof of its own. I hope that's not confusing,....but plenty of evidence can be used to rebut claims without being standalone proof.

Saying "this is the reason we lost this game" is a HUGE commitment to evidence you are providing. Without going in-depth in film study can be a recipe for disaster in a legitimate conversation with those that know how the game of football is.

2) Sometimes there are clear reasons that show up on film (that are unaccounted for in numbers, btw). Other times,....it is black and white and plain as day.

What cant really ever fail is the eye in the sky. The former, however,...is going to toss alot of numbers used in the garbage. Alot goes on in a single football came that cant be accounted for with numbers.

Quick example: Bosa's 2 sacks in a game can clearly be the REASON we won in 1 game,.... supportive details highlighting the great pass rush we had all game in another game,... and virtually unrelated to the outcome of a 3rd game where we garnered next to no pass rush all day, but ended up winning. This is just how football is!!

Can't really know without looking at the game. And I think you run into trouble there. Just my $0.02.

Keep spinning the mud in the tires. You still haven't provided anything. No film, no real data, nothing. Yet you continue to demand that I keep providing more and more when you and everyone else haven't provided much if anything.

I gave reasons,....and I backed it up with a situational example of stats. All that's left is to share where you disagree with the premise and why. Completely dismissing it doesn't really do much. Again:

Bosa's 2 sacks could've caused a fumbled TD and another eventual TD, totaling 14 points.

And they could've also been 2 garbage time tackles that really amounted to zilch, regarding the outcome.

So numbers can be dangerous if it's all you're going to rely on to solely providing proof for why we lost a single game. It is something you're volunteering that goes against the logical grain ("u usually need the film").

So,...I mean,...when you go against the grain,...be armed and prepared and don't take offense to disagreement. (I'm still waiting on how those Average Rankings calculate or make sense regarding the OL. IDK but it seems like some costly mistakes are involved?)

If you disagree with the Bosa example given,...please state why? But obviously, I've really left no room for disagreement if you watch football on a weekly basis.

Edit: And not saying you,...but there are alot of people that comment on Shanahan's game plan that barely have a clue of what the gameplan really was after losses. They barely know what they really just looked at, but all of a sudden have Shanahan's game plan in their back pocket?

Alot of lunacy goes on after losses and it's usually due to frustrated fans more than anything tangible with our core group.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
That is the issue. You say it's LUCK that the ravens got their hands on so many passes. I say it's the ravens STRENGTH as to the reason why they got their hands on so many passes. Are you that reluctant to give the ravens any credit that you have boiled your argument down to the 49ers just having bad luck?

No I didn't say it was luck that the Ravens got their hands on passes. I say it's poor execution. The 2nd interception for example. Brock threw the ball right into a blitzing defender. Deebo was wide open for a huge gain and Brock normally would get that pass by that defender. It's his responsibility to do so. He did it the same thing later to CMC when there was much heavier traffic. The bad luck aspect of this is when the defender tipped the pass it ended up being an interception.

The 3rd interception Brock made a poor decision to throw back across his body into the middle of the field to a man who was tightly covered. Kittle unfortunately tries to body the ball instead of using his hands and the ball is deflected into the air again. Bad luck it ends up being caught by another Raven.

Could you have called run plays on these two play? Sure. Could Brock have executed better and made better decisions. 100 percent.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
That is the issue. You say it's LUCK that the ravens got their hands on so many passes. I say it's the ravens STRENGTH as to the reason why they got their hands on so many passes.

I mean we had 5 INTs, IIRC. Several gif clips of the film could easily and quickly answer this one way or another, provided that you can properly break down the play at hand. I suggest doing so to end the debate once and for all.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
No I didn't say it was luck that the Ravens got their hands on passes. I say it's poor execution. The 2nd interception for example. Brock threw the ball right into a blitzing defender. Deebo was wide open for a huge gain and Brock normally would get that pass by that defender. It's his responsibility to do so. He did it the same thing later to CMC when there was much heavier traffic. The bad luck aspect of this is when the defender tipped the pass it ended up being an interception.

The 3rd interception Brock made a poor decision to throw back across his body into the middle of the field to a man who was tightly covered. Kittle unfortunately tries to body the ball instead of using his hands and the ball is deflected into the air again. Bad luck it ends up being caught by another Raven.

Could you have called run plays on these two play? Sure. Could Brock have executed better and made better decisions. 100 percent.

Yea alot of the same people saying Brock is the clear MVP of the league....are also saying we should have ran the ball more instead of letting him work. This is in spite of us putting the ball in his hands in so many games and being successful with it.

Regardless which we do more of (run or pass), emotional responders will choose the other side of things when we lose. NC is a guy that thinks we should throw 100 times a game. But I'll guarantee you will not find any posts of his that says "you know what guys? I was wrong" after that Baltimore loss,...lol.

I am not going to continue to have multiple conversations at the same time. This is the O line thread and It is currently getting derailed. I will say this before I stop responding to this topic. None of you have provided why a pass heavy game plan against the 6th ranked yds/game and #1 ranked yds/att pass defense is a better strategy than a run heavy game plan against the 13th ranked yds/game and 27th ranked yds/att defense. Which is the basis of my entire argument.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I am not going to continue to have multiple conversations at the same time. This is the O line thread and It is currently getting derailed. I will say this before I stop responding to this topic. None of you have provided why a pass heavy game plan against the 6th ranked yds/game and #1 ranked yds/att pass defense is a better strategy than a run heavy game plan against the 13th ranked yds/game and 27th ranked yds/att defense. Which is the basis of my entire argument.

There's no reason you can't address those examples provided above. But either way, your gameplan gets perverted when you turn the ball over multiple times. I have no problem with you thinking we should have come in run heavy. The disagreement is in blaming a plan that was largely effective outside of poor execution from an MVP candidate nobody would have expected coupled with some unfortunate luck.

I'm happy Brock had the experience. Got a free look at a potential SB opponent and he's consistently shown to learn from the bulk of his mistakes.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I am not going to continue to have multiple conversations at the same time. This is the O line thread and It is currently getting derailed. I will say this before I stop responding to this topic. None of you have provided why a pass heavy game plan against the 6th ranked yds/game and #1 ranked yds/att pass defense is a better strategy than a run heavy game plan against the 13th ranked yds/game and 27th ranked yds/att defense. Which is the basis of my entire argument.

No prob (it is you who brought up the loss of the game, and different areas of play will always intersect in football discussion).

But yea I mean,...you gave a chart with "Average Rank" for Oline. If you ever want to discuss what goes into it,...you can announce that it is open for conversation, I guess? I have no idea how things are weighted in the averages,...especially when the lowest average "ranking" of about 32 teams is about 17.

The mean of those 32 averages is 11.5,...so between 11th and 12th in the league is the average. I think everyone can tell by now that I am a math person,..and the math seems off.

Either way,... if football discussion upset you then nevermind and enjoy your day.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
No I didn't say it was luck that the Ravens got their hands on passes. I say it's poor execution. The 2nd interception for example. Brock threw the ball right into a blitzing defender. Deebo was wide open for a huge gain and Brock normally would get that pass by that defender. It's his responsibility to do so. He did it the same thing later to CMC when there was much heavier traffic. The bad luck aspect of this is when the defender tipped the pass it ended up being an interception.

The 3rd interception Brock made a poor decision to throw back across his body into the middle of the field to a man who was tightly covered. Kittle unfortunately tries to body the ball instead of using his hands and the ball is deflected into the air again. Bad luck it ends up being caught by another Raven.

Could you have called run plays on these two play? Sure. Could Brock have executed better and made better decisions. 100 percent.

Yea alot of the same people saying Brock is the clear MVP of the league....are also saying we should have ran the ball more instead of letting him work. This is in spite of us putting the ball in his hands in so many games and being successful with it.

Regardless which we do more of (run or pass), emotional responders will choose the other side of things when we lose. NC is a guy that thinks we should throw 100 times a game. But I'll guarantee you will not find any posts of his that says "you know what guys? I was wrong" after that Baltimore loss,...lol.

Alot of people did think he was the MVP up until that ravens game. I for one was one of those posters but haven't said a word about Brock being MVP since. Maybe some did believe we should have kept going with the pass to set up the run approach in that ravens game. Again, I for one was not one of those posters. I did not come out directly and say that we should run the ball 30+ times before the game was played. However, I did state that I thought Brock would only throw one TD pass while also stating that I thought we had a good chance of winning the game. Someone proceeded to tell me that Brock was going to throw 5 TD passes in the game and solidify his MVP case. I was strongly against that notion and expressed as much.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I am not going to continue to have multiple conversations at the same time. This is the O line thread and It is currently getting derailed. I will say this before I stop responding to this topic. None of you have provided why a pass heavy game plan against the 6th ranked yds/game and #1 ranked yds/att pass defense is a better strategy than a run heavy game plan against the 13th ranked yds/game and 27th ranked yds/att defense. Which is the basis of my entire argument.

There's no reason you can't address those examples provided above. But either way, your gameplan gets perverted when you turn the ball over multiple times. I have no problem with you thinking we should have come in run heavy. The disagreement is in blaming a plan that was largely effective outside of poor execution from an MVP candidate nobody would have expected coupled with some unfortunate luck.

I'm happy Brock had the experience. Got a free look at a potential SB opponent and he's consistently shown to learn from the bulk of his mistakes.

Are you one of the posters that thought I was crazy thinking Brock would only throw 1 TD pass against the ravens while you yourself stated that he will throw 5? I expressed my concern about believing Brock would have an MVP type of game against the ravens. No one took me seriously than either.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I am not going to continue to have multiple conversations at the same time. This is the O line thread and It is currently getting derailed. I will say this before I stop responding to this topic. None of you have provided why a pass heavy game plan against the 6th ranked yds/game and #1 ranked yds/att pass defense is a better strategy than a run heavy game plan against the 13th ranked yds/game and 27th ranked yds/att defense. Which is the basis of my entire argument.

No prob (it is you who brought up the loss of the game, and different areas of play will always intersect in football discussion).

But yea I mean,...you gave a chart with "Average Rank" for Oline. If you ever want to discuss what goes into it,...you can announce that it is open for conversation, I guess? I have no idea how things are weighted in the averages,...especially when the lowest average "ranking" of about 32 teams is about 17.

The mean of those 32 averages is 11.5,...so between 11th and 12th in the league is the average. The math seems off.

Either way,... if football discussion upset you then nevermind and enjoy your day.

I brought it up in reference to those who want to blame the O line for the loss. NC urged me to continue on the topic. I didn't really have any interest. It wasn't me that pushed the topic along. That was you.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I am not going to continue to have multiple conversations at the same time. This is the O line thread and It is currently getting derailed. I will say this before I stop responding to this topic. None of you have provided why a pass heavy game plan against the 6th ranked yds/game and #1 ranked yds/att pass defense is a better strategy than a run heavy game plan against the 13th ranked yds/game and 27th ranked yds/att defense. Which is the basis of my entire argument.

No prob (it is you who brought up the loss of the game, and different areas of play will always intersect in football discussion).

But yea I mean,...you gave a chart with "Average Rank" for Oline. If you ever want to discuss what goes into it,...you can announce that it is open for conversation, I guess? I have no idea how things are weighted in the averages,...especially when the lowest average "ranking" of about 32 teams is about 17.

The mean of those 32 averages is 11.5,...so between 11th and 12th in the league is the average. The math seems off.

Either way,... if football discussion upset you then nevermind and enjoy your day.

I brought it up in reference to those who want to blame the O line for the loss. NC urged me to continue on the topic. I didn't really have any interest. It wasn't me that pushed the topic along. That was you.

Alright man. Truce.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I am not going to continue to have multiple conversations at the same time. This is the O line thread and It is currently getting derailed. I will say this before I stop responding to this topic. None of you have provided why a pass heavy game plan against the 6th ranked yds/game and #1 ranked yds/att pass defense is a better strategy than a run heavy game plan against the 13th ranked yds/game and 27th ranked yds/att defense. Which is the basis of my entire argument.

No prob (it is you who brought up the loss of the game, and different areas of play will always intersect in football discussion).

But yea I mean,...you gave a chart with "Average Rank" for Oline. If you ever want to discuss what goes into it,...you can announce that it is open for conversation, I guess? I have no idea how things are weighted in the averages,...especially when the lowest average "ranking" of about 32 teams is about 17.

The mean of those 32 averages is 11.5,...so between 11th and 12th in the league is the average. The math seems off.

Either way,... if football discussion upset you then nevermind and enjoy your day.

I brought it up in reference to those who want to blame the O line for the loss. NC urged me to continue on the topic. I didn't really have any interest. It wasn't me that pushed the topic along. That was you.

Random is the English version of BuZz...topics all over the place and none of it makes much sense in the end.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Are you one of the posters that thought I was crazy thinking Brock would only throw 1 TD pass against the ravens while you yourself stated that he will throw 5? I expressed my concern about believing Brock would have an MVP type of game against the ravens. No one took me seriously than either.

I never stated he would throw 5 TD passes, lol. I never made a single stat prediction for any game at any point this season. Not something I tend to do.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Random is the English version of BuZz...topics all over the place and none of it makes much sense in the end.

The injury thread has been reclaimed. Maybe the OLine thread is next?