49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
That O line was good from 2020-2022 and then suddenly took a dive in 2023 after Tom retired. Are we supposed to believe that is just a coincidence?

Notice I'm not disputing the premise, that TB12 makes all around him better. I don't see anyone disputing that. I'm saying they drafted a OL at 13, who yes made an impact. To pretend that didn't happen, as some sort of it can't happen, cuz it has to be all Tom Brady, for the sake of my argument, is denying reality friends..

Simply look what happened to Brady after the OL injuries the next year when he retired. Why couldn't Brady transcend that to another playoff and/or Superbowl win.

You need both.

Tom Brady's sack% was the lowest it had been in Tampa in 2022.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Those O line's were twice as good with Tom Brady behind center then they were with those other QB's. Unless someone can prove that those O line's drastically changed personnel before and after Brady, that chart should clearly put this debate to bed.

They didn't . They were horrific prior to Tom both in PP and run blocking, and it's all documented in #s and rankings. . Good rule of thumb is to always fact check what certain folks say

TB12 is the best to ever do it. Hard to say they didn't upgrade the OL, they drafted Wirfs the offseason where they added Brady. That was 13th pick in the draft.

Here was his contributions as a rook: As a rookie, Wirfs started all 16 games in the 2020 season, only allowing 1 sack to Khalil Mack of the Chicago Bears in Week 5.[15] Wirfs played and started all four games in the Buccaneers' playoff run that resulted in the team winning Super Bowl LV.[16][17] He was ranked 89th by his fellow players on the NFL Top 100 Players of 2021.[18]

You don't call that an upgrade? I agree on the bold

Ah so 1 upgrade at RT completely revamped that bottom feeder OL. Not Tom. Got it l. another solid take . Maybe you should focus on the initial tier 1/top 5 OL pre Tom lie that kicked this off

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
That O line was good from 2020-2022 and then suddenly took a dive in 2023 after Tom retired. Are we supposed to believe that is just a coincidence?

Notice I'm not disputing the premise, that TB12 makes all around him better. I don't see anyone disputing that. I'm saying they drafted a OL at 13, who yes made an impact. To pretend that didn't happen, as some sort of it can't happen, cuz it has to be all Tom Brady, for the sake of my argument, is denying reality friends..

Simply look what happened to Brady after the OL injuries the next year when he retired. Why couldn't Brady transcend that to another playoff and/or Superbowl win.

You need both.

Tom Brady's sack% was the lowest it had been in Tampa in 2022.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
LMFAO…better vet that OL ranking since it was from NOVEMBER OF 2021 not were they ever ranked 1, or close to it, prior to Brady. Jfc the 2 most disingenuous posters in here. .

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
That O line was good from 2020-2022 and then suddenly took a dive in 2023 after Tom retired. Are we supposed to believe that is just a coincidence?

Notice I'm not disputing the premise, that TB12 makes all around him better. I don't see anyone disputing that. I'm saying they drafted a OL at 13, who yes made an impact. To pretend that didn't happen, as some sort of it can't happen, cuz it has to be all Tom Brady, for the sake of my argument, is denying reality friends..

Simply look what happened to Brady after the OL injuries the next year when he retired. Why couldn't Brady transcend that to another playoff and/or Superbowl win.

You need both.

Tom Brady's sack% was the lowest it had been in Tampa in 2022.

lol at injury takes.. well yeah injuries sure dampen things

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
lol, I would submit the above as a textbook case, of ppl coming up with an argument first, and fitting all facts to match it second. Which is doing it backwards btw. How else do you ignore Wirfs like he never happened? It would be like saying the Lions did nothing to dramatically upgrade their RB room, nevermind this Gibbs character..

so it's a thread of ppl with their mind made up, and bending all reality to their own presuppositions..

lol This is rich. Btw who do you think had a better year, Gibbs or Swift?

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
That O line was good from 2020-2022 and then suddenly took a dive in 2023 after Tom retired. Are we supposed to believe that is just a coincidence?

Notice I'm not disputing the premise, that TB12 makes all around him better. I don't see anyone disputing that. I'm saying they drafted a OL at 13, who yes made an impact. To pretend that didn't happen, as some sort of it can't happen, cuz it has to be all Tom Brady, for the sake of my argument, is denying reality friends..

Simply look what happened to Brady after the OL injuries the next year when he retired. Why couldn't Brady transcend that to another playoff and/or Superbowl win.

You need both.

Tom Brady's sack% was the lowest it had been in Tampa in 2022.

lol at injury takes.. well yeah injuries sure dampen things

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
That O line was good from 2020-2022 and then suddenly took a dive in 2023 after Tom retired. Are we supposed to believe that is just a coincidence?

Notice I'm not disputing the premise, that TB12 makes all around him better. I don't see anyone disputing that. I'm saying they drafted a OL at 13, who yes made an impact. To pretend that didn't happen, as some sort of it can't happen, cuz it has to be all Tom Brady, for the sake of my argument, is denying reality friends..

Simply look what happened to Brady after the OL injuries the next year when he retired. Why couldn't Brady transcend that to another playoff and/or Superbowl win.

You need both.

Tom Brady's sack% was the lowest it had been in Tampa in 2022.

He struggled greatly if you watched the games. Dude still had some talent in front of him but without Wirfs, limping around, the season was over. And he's the GOAT. What about Mahomes? Stafford? Brees? Every top QB in history?

You need both.

I don't know why you're trying so hard to diminish the importance of OL talent unless you're just a simply minded B/W thinker.

Notice how we're still noting the importance of a HOF QB too.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I wish NC would have given us the injury excuse in 2021 when Trent Williams was hobbling on one leg. But I guess excuses are only valid for other teams.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
That O line was good from 2020-2022 and then suddenly took a dive in 2023 after Tom retired. Are we supposed to believe that is just a coincidence?

Notice I'm not disputing the premise, that TB12 makes all around him better. I don't see anyone disputing that. I'm saying they drafted a OL at 13, who yes made an impact. To pretend that didn't happen, as some sort of it can't happen, cuz it has to be all Tom Brady, for the sake of my argument, is denying reality friends..

Simply look what happened to Brady after the OL injuries the next year when he retired. Why couldn't Brady transcend that to another playoff and/or Superbowl win.

You need both.

Tom Brady's sack% was the lowest it had been in Tampa in 2022.

lol at injury takes.. well yeah injuries sure dampen things

I wish NC would have given us the injury excuse in 2021 when Trent Williams was hobbling on one leg. But I guess excuses are only valid for other teams.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
lol, I would submit the above as a textbook case, of ppl coming up with an argument first, and fitting all facts to match it second. Which is doing it backwards btw. How else do you ignore Wirfs like he never happened? It would be like saying the Lions did nothing to dramatically upgrade their RB room, nevermind this Gibbs character..

so it's a thread of ppl with their mind made up, and bending all reality to their own presuppositions..

lol This is rich. Btw who do you think had a better year, Gibbs or Swift?

It's irrelevant, you indicated they didn't make changes. They did. Splashing down a top half of round 1 pick on the position, is making a pretty big change / investment. You only gloss over that (with no mention of it), cuz you are trying to win an argument, reality be darned..

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
lol, I would submit the above as a textbook case, of ppl coming up with an argument first, and fitting all facts to match it second. Which is doing it backwards btw. How else do you ignore Wirfs like he never happened? It would be like saying the Lions did nothing to dramatically upgrade their RB room, nevermind this Gibbs character..

so it's a thread of ppl with their mind made up, and bending all reality to their own presuppositions..

lol This is rich. Btw who do you think had a better year, Gibbs or Swift?

It's irrelevant, you indicated they didn't make changes. They did. Splashing down a top half of round 1 pick on the position, is making a pretty big change / investment. You only gloss over that (with no mention of it), cuz you are trying to win an argument, reality be darned..

I didn't say anything of the sort, keep muddying the waters. I don't need to gloss over anything to win this argument, the #s do that for me and show someone was lying about them having a tier 1/top 5 OL prior to Brady. And this is who you are hitching your wagon to 🤣

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
lol, I would submit the above as a textbook case, of ppl coming up with an argument first, and fitting all facts to match it second. Which is doing it backwards btw. How else do you ignore Wirfs like he never happened? It would be like saying the Lions did nothing to dramatically upgrade their RB room, nevermind this Gibbs character..

so it's a thread of ppl with their mind made up, and bending all reality to their own presuppositions..

lol This is rich. Btw who do you think had a better year, Gibbs or Swift?

It's irrelevant, you indicated they didn't make changes. They did. Splashing down a top half of round 1 pick on the position, is making a pretty big change / investment. You only gloss over that (with no mention of it), cuz you are trying to win an argument, reality be darned..

I didn't say anything of the sort, keep muddying the waters. I don't need to gloss over anything to win this argument, the #s do that for me and show someone was lying about them having a tier 1/top 5 OL prior to Brady. And this is who you are hitching your wagon to 🤣

You were replying to Yac and he asked if Tampa made OL changes before and after Brady, and you said 'They didn't"
I disagree, Wirfs was an indeed a change and a pretty big one, great player from the jump
moving on..