49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yup, with the same tier 1 OL Stafford won a Superbowl with. You need both.

So Rams OL was tier 1 from 2017-2021?

Remember when he told everyone the only reason they won the SB was because the rams finally got it and revamped their entire OL..but really just brought in a new, better QB and trotted out the same OL? Now it looks like it was always tier 1 🤣 gotta love revisionist history

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Cosmo:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I personally could care less what you think. You're a clown if you don't think I covet a FQB. In fact, the very basis of this entire THREAD is to protect that very FQB because we know from our very own history what happens to those without great unit PP.

But you do, you.

Couldn't* care less :)

We've had QB injuries but I'm not sure they are necessarily the fault of the OL right? Definitely none of the major ones suffered by Jimmy, Trey, or Brock.

Notice how he doesn't actually ever say O line pass protection when mentioning those QB injuries. He carefully uses the term unit pass protection. As if the O line is also responsible for Jimmy tearing his ACL outside the pocket, Trey breaking his ankle on a QB draw when he had reached the second level of the defense or Brock with a UCL tear because of a poor blocking effort by a TE. None of those major injuries were due to the O line.

Pass protection extends well beyond just the OL. Kyle knows this intimately from the Atlanta Superbowl loss. Montana beat to hell from failed pick ups. Young ended his career on a failed pick up by the RB. Brock and the TE fail. Jimmy post injuries from insta-pressures and failed pick ups.

When run blocking is your emphasis and not pass protection, it extends to the unit that is responsible for protecting your QB.

When pass protection fails (OL ), QB's get hurt. It's just a matter of time.

PS: CMC has been extremely helpful in this area.

We should change this thread title to the unit pass protection thread if that is the case. Because the O line is strictly from LT to RT. Blaming the O line because of what a TE did or didn't do is disengenuous. It wouldn't matter how much upgrading we did on the O line if the TE still misses a block and allows a pass rusher to get by.

I understand. It's a systemic issue IMHO. Where the focus and priority is. I have no issues talking just OL but my biggest concern has always been PP in general because it always rears its ugly head in the playoffs and when it matters most.

Have any stats on the rest of the unit PP team?

No. I don't because I strictly do research on the O line for the O line thread. Its why I hesitate to include anything rushing because there really isn't any stats that separate the O line run blocking from unit run blocking. Perhaps we need a separate thread for discussion pertaining to all things systemic.

Fair enough. I'd love to look at the whole picture esp. because run blocking (as a unit) is their strength and that shouldn't be diminished in the grand scheme of things. I'm not sure how we'd do that though.

I did include rushing efficiency in one of my charts on page 2721 which moved our O line ranking from 22nd (pp) all the way up to 4th due to how efficient we have been running the ball. But again, there are no real run blocking stats to determine run blocking efficiency like there are pass blocking stats. Perhaps a cool project would be to create our own set of run blocking stats and start tracking them ourselves.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I personally could care less what you think. You're a clown if you don't think I covet a FQB. In fact, the very basis of this entire THREAD is to protect that very FQB because we know from our very own history what happens to those without great unit PP.

But you do, you.

You clearly don't. It's why you bet on the Lions. Actions speak louder than words.

I bet on whichever teams happened to have been in tier 1 at the time. And the Lions are now a division winner and playoff team and Goff has played the best stretch of his career behind that tier 1 OL.

Maybe you didn't know this but Detroit hasn't exactly had much success over the years. LOL.

Spending the most on their OL as their first team building strategy proved to be a smart move esp. for a tier 2-3 QB like Goff.

Lololol bruh gaslighting over here. Gibbs, Cambell, Branch and LaPorta just being ignored to make a smooth brained point.

You mean you can do all that at the same time starting a rebuild? No way. I thought year 9 was when you can focus on the OL after everything else is built? I guess it's how a GM prioritizes things then. Interesting.

Also, I don't think you know what gas lighting means. You sound like Hoov.

If someone is dieting for 8 years and not losing weight then year 9 they start going to the gym and start losing weight do you give the credit to when they started eating Quest chips instead of Doritos?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Daft late round rookie QBs and spend big FA money on mediocre vet QBs who you limped into playoffs with.

Draft only OL

This is the way

Since no team ever does this... Nor ever will (because of the ignorant tunnel vision it would involve with millions of dollars at stake)... They rely on the fact that we cant instantly outline that these crazy ideas are blatantly false.

Imagine that?

Im all for everyone having their own opinion. Just dont completely take over thread topics and gatekeep it with nonsense.

With the exception of having Brady, the Patriots always spent heavy resources on their line. The skill players would come and go along with the defenders.

I would like to try the experiment though. I know it would never happen but would be Hella interesting.

Every smart HC knows, the second you get a tier 1 QB, especially if he's a classic drop back QB, you do everything in your power to get him a tier 1 OL.

How these guys ignore that, even recently, is beyond me.

Bingo. Unless you want to be the NYJ,

Yup. Would tier 2-3 QB's like Goff and Mayfield have won their divisions and made the playoffs if they didn't have tier 1, top 5 OL?

It works both ways. You need both. And yes, a top QB is still more important than a top OL. But they're both very important (esp. together) to a winning formula.

Agree that you need both. 49ers aren't that far off from a top OLine unit, just missing two players on the right side. The ones there are above average, (Feliciano and Mckivitz) but they can do a lot better next year with a decent draft.

Foerster is very good OLine coach, but he can only make lemonade with lemons. Give him some top of the line grapes from a gold medal Vinyard and we will have Vilmart & Cie.

Absolutely. We're not far off as long as TW stays with us and doesn't pull a Staley on us. I agree. Hone in on it in the off season. Add as much talent and competition as possible. Train up the other parts of PP as just as much of a focus as RB. Perfect your craft.

I wouldn't expect a rookie to come in like Wirfs. This is a tough, detailed system. Like Banks, a high end rookie might need a full red shirt year. I also can't picture them buying a FA either.

Quite honestly, I could see a resigning like Feliciano and the drafting of another higher pick G. The only way I see this regime taking a T with their first pick is if Trent retires. They really seem to like what's in house. Maybe even without adding more starting talent next year, with another off season together, they still could reach that next level. We'll see.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I personally could care less what you think. You're a clown if you don't think I covet a FQB. In fact, the very basis of this entire THREAD is to protect that very FQB because we know from our very own history what happens to those without great unit PP.

But you do, you.

You clearly don't. It's why you bet on the Lions. Actions speak louder than words.

I bet on whichever teams happened to have been in tier 1 at the time. And the Lions are now a division winner and playoff team and Goff has played the best stretch of his career behind that tier 1 OL.

Maybe you didn't know this but Detroit hasn't exactly had much success over the years. LOL.

Spending the most on their OL as their first team building strategy proved to be a smart move esp. for a tier 2-3 QB like Goff.

Lololol bruh gaslighting over here. Gibbs, Cambell, Branch and LaPorta just being ignored to make a smooth brained point.

You mean you can do all that at the same time starting a rebuild? No way. I thought year 9 was when you can focus on the OL after everything else is built? I guess it's how a GM prioritizes things then. Interesting.

Also, I don't think you know what gas lighting means. You sound like Hoov.

If someone is dieting for 8 years and not losing weight then year 9 they start going to the gym and start losing weight do you give the credit to when they started eating Quest chips instead of Doritos?

LMAO. That's hilarious!

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Cosmo:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I personally could care less what you think. You're a clown if you don't think I covet a FQB. In fact, the very basis of this entire THREAD is to protect that very FQB because we know from our very own history what happens to those without great unit PP.

But you do, you.

Couldn't* care less :)

We've had QB injuries but I'm not sure they are necessarily the fault of the OL right? Definitely none of the major ones suffered by Jimmy, Trey, or Brock.

Notice how he doesn't actually ever say O line pass protection when mentioning those QB injuries. He carefully uses the term unit pass protection. As if the O line is also responsible for Jimmy tearing his ACL outside the pocket, Trey breaking his ankle on a QB draw when he had reached the second level of the defense or Brock with a UCL tear because of a poor blocking effort by a TE. None of those major injuries were due to the O line.

Pass protection extends well beyond just the OL. Kyle knows this intimately from the Atlanta Superbowl loss. Montana beat to hell from failed pick ups. Young ended his career on a failed pick up by the RB. Brock and the TE fail. Jimmy post injuries from insta-pressures and failed pick ups.

When run blocking is your emphasis and not pass protection, it extends to the unit that is responsible for protecting your QB.

When pass protection fails (OL ), QB's get hurt. It's just a matter of time.

PS: CMC has been extremely helpful in this area.

We should change this thread title to the unit pass protection thread if that is the case. Because the O line is strictly from LT to RT. Blaming the O line because of what a TE did or didn't do is disengenuous. It wouldn't matter how much upgrading we did on the O line if the TE still misses a block and allows a pass rusher to get by.

I understand. It's a systemic issue IMHO. Where the focus and priority is. I have no issues talking just OL but my biggest concern has always been PP in general because it always rears its ugly head in the playoffs and when it matters most.

Have any stats on the rest of the unit PP team?

No. I don't because I strictly do research on the O line for the O line thread. Its why I hesitate to include anything rushing because there really isn't any stats that separate the O line run blocking from unit run blocking. Perhaps we need a separate thread for discussion pertaining to all things systemic.

Fair enough. I'd love to look at the whole picture esp. because run blocking (as a unit) is their strength and that shouldn't be diminished in the grand scheme of things. I'm not sure how we'd do that though.

I did include rushing efficiency in one of my charts on page 2721 which moved our O line ranking from 22nd (pp) all the way up to 4th due to how efficient we have been running the ball. But again, there are no real run blocking stats to determine run blocking efficiency like there are pass blocking stats. Perhaps a cool project would be to create our own set of run blocking stats and start tracking them ourselves.

I thinks that's about where TW/BT had us as well. They look at the full picture so they had 2 of the top running teams in volume (us/5th and Ravens top 7).

IIRC, I thought I remembered something about PFF also carrying more weight towards run blocking a while back. I think because it's become more of a passing league and they wanted to weigh more evenly for those teams who are inverted and because it's more challenging for pass centric teams. I think Jeff Deeney told me that once. Don't quote me on that.

That might be a good start.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Cosmo:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I personally could care less what you think. You're a clown if you don't think I covet a FQB. In fact, the very basis of this entire THREAD is to protect that very FQB because we know from our very own history what happens to those without great unit PP.

But you do, you.

Couldn't* care less :)

We've had QB injuries but I'm not sure they are necessarily the fault of the OL right? Definitely none of the major ones suffered by Jimmy, Trey, or Brock.

Notice how he doesn't actually ever say O line pass protection when mentioning those QB injuries. He carefully uses the term unit pass protection. As if the O line is also responsible for Jimmy tearing his ACL outside the pocket, Trey breaking his ankle on a QB draw when he had reached the second level of the defense or Brock with a UCL tear because of a poor blocking effort by a TE. None of those major injuries were due to the O line.

Pass protection extends well beyond just the OL. Kyle knows this intimately from the Atlanta Superbowl loss. Montana beat to hell from failed pick ups. Young ended his career on a failed pick up by the RB. Brock and the TE fail. Jimmy post injuries from insta-pressures and failed pick ups.

When run blocking is your emphasis and not pass protection, it extends to the unit that is responsible for protecting your QB.

When pass protection fails (OL ), QB's get hurt. It's just a matter of time.

PS: CMC has been extremely helpful in this area.

We should change this thread title to the unit pass protection thread if that is the case. Because the O line is strictly from LT to RT. Blaming the O line because of what a TE did or didn't do is disengenuous. It wouldn't matter how much upgrading we did on the O line if the TE still misses a block and allows a pass rusher to get by.

I understand. It's a systemic issue IMHO. Where the focus and priority is. I have no issues talking just OL but my biggest concern has always been PP in general because it always rears its ugly head in the playoffs and when it matters most.

Have any stats on the rest of the unit PP team?

No. I don't because I strictly do research on the O line for the O line thread. Its why I hesitate to include anything rushing because there really isn't any stats that separate the O line run blocking from unit run blocking. Perhaps we need a separate thread for discussion pertaining to all things systemic.

Fair enough. I'd love to look at the whole picture esp. because run blocking (as a unit) is their strength and that shouldn't be diminished in the grand scheme of things. I'm not sure how we'd do that though.

I did include rushing efficiency in one of my charts on page 2721 which moved our O line ranking from 22nd (pp) all the way up to 4th due to how efficient we have been running the ball. But again, there are no real run blocking stats to determine run blocking efficiency like there are pass blocking stats. Perhaps a cool project would be to create our own set of run blocking stats and start tracking them ourselves.

I thinks that's about where TW/BT had us as well. They look at the full picture so they had 2 of the top running teams in volume (us/5th and Ravens top 7).

IIRC, I thought I remembered something about PFF also carrying more weight towards run blocking a while back. I think because it's become more of a passing league and they wanted to weigh more evenly for those teams who are inverted and because it's more challenging for pass centric teams. I think Jeff Deeney told me that once. Don't quote me on that.

That might be a good start.

So what run blocking stats do you think would be good? I think pancake blocks would be a good start. Maybe second level blocks? Or how long a player is able to hold their block?

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha. My formula has been proven right every year.

I don't need to prove anything in here.

The QB-makes-the-OL crowd is 0-6.

So let's prove it again.

Let's take a few minutes to go over those NC 6 wins

2019-there was no formula at that time. NC was still operating off of QB hits since sacks were no longer applicable. Then QB hits went the way of the sack that year which was followed by a laundry list of excuses as to why. Then the 49ers caved to a Chiefs team that was not boasting a top OL and Mahomes absolutely turned into super man after getting the s**t kicked out of him the entire game. NC also told everyone during a debate that KC had actually kept PM clean the entire game and it was actually the Niners OL who got destroyed all game. When it was brought to his attention that he was wrong, he then shifted that the true OL's really hold up in the last 2 minutes and PM had nothing to do with it. Some outside of the box logic, I can respect that. -NC Fail

2020-formula was still not a thing at this time, but rather in its infancy . TB brought on Brady after a horrendous OL year in 2019. All of a sudden the same OL, that was essentially the exact same OL from the year prior, transformed into a top unit after Brady showed up. They beat down a Chiefs OL that was rated high, but depleted with injuries at all key OL positions and NC claimed victory-In reality this was another NC fail.

2021-This was the best chance NC had at seizing victory….had he not told everyone that the Rams had learned their lesson and prioritized and rehauled their OL to be #1….when in reality all they did was trot out the same exact OL from the year prior…..while also adding Stafford. Niners kicked the s**t out of the Rams OL bulk of the game, but unfortunately folded in the end. This is when NC became laser focused on pressure rates. -Sadly another NC fail

2022-PHI had the #1 OL and an elite QB. KC OL was not #1 and almost got PM killed in the playoffs and gave up a high pressure rate in the SB-. This is also where we were introduced to Unthreatening pressure-Fail NC.

#neverforget

A lot of revisionist history going on here. Time to dust this off.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha. My formula has been proven right every year.

I don't need to prove anything in here.

The QB-makes-the-OL crowd is 0-6.

So let's prove it again.

Let's take a few minutes to go over those NC 6 wins

2019-there was no formula at that time. NC was still operating off of QB hits since sacks were no longer applicable. Then QB hits went the way of the sack that year which was followed by a laundry list of excuses as to why. Then the 49ers caved to a Chiefs team that was not boasting a top OL and Mahomes absolutely turned into super man after getting the s**t kicked out of him the entire game. NC also told everyone during a debate that KC had actually kept PM clean the entire game and it was actually the Niners OL who got destroyed all game. When it was brought to his attention that he was wrong, he then shifted that the true OL's really hold up in the last 2 minutes and PM had nothing to do with it. Some outside of the box logic, I can respect that. -NC Fail

2020-formula was still not a thing at this time, but rather in its infancy . TB brought on Brady after a horrendous OL year in 2019. All of a sudden the same OL, that was essentially the exact same OL from the year prior, transformed into a top unit after Brady showed up. They beat down a Chiefs OL that was rated high, but depleted with injuries at all key OL positions and NC claimed victory-In reality this was another NC fail.

2021-This was the best chance NC had at seizing victory….had he not told everyone that the Rams had learned their lesson and prioritized and rehauled their OL to be #1….when in reality all they did was trot out the same exact OL from the year prior…..while also adding Stafford. Niners kicked the s**t out of the Rams OL bulk of the game, but unfortunately folded in the end. This is when NC became laser focused on pressure rates. -Sadly another NC fail

2022-PHI had the #1 OL and an elite QB. KC OL was not #1 and almost got PM killed in the playoffs and gave up a high pressure rate in the SB-. This is also where we were introduced to Unthreatening pressure-Fail NC.

#neverforget

A lot of revisionist history going on here. Time to dust this off.

Expose the frauds !

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha. My formula has been proven right every year.

I don't need to prove anything in here.

The QB-makes-the-OL crowd is 0-6.

So let's prove it again.

Let's take a few minutes to go over those NC 6 wins

2019-there was no formula at that time. NC was still operating off of QB hits since sacks were no longer applicable. Then QB hits went the way of the sack that year which was followed by a laundry list of excuses as to why. Then the 49ers caved to a Chiefs team that was not boasting a top OL and Mahomes absolutely turned into super man after getting the s**t kicked out of him the entire game. NC also told everyone during a debate that KC had actually kept PM clean the entire game and it was actually the Niners OL who got destroyed all game. When it was brought to his attention that he was wrong, he then shifted that the true OL's really hold up in the last 2 minutes and PM had nothing to do with it. Some outside of the box logic, I can respect that. -NC Fail

2020-formula was still not a thing at this time, but rather in its infancy . TB brought on Brady after a horrendous OL year in 2019. All of a sudden the same OL, that was essentially the exact same OL from the year prior, transformed into a top unit after Brady showed up. They beat down a Chiefs OL that was rated high, but depleted with injuries at all key OL positions and NC claimed victory-In reality this was another NC fail.

2021-This was the best chance NC had at seizing victory….had he not told everyone that the Rams had learned their lesson and prioritized and rehauled their OL to be #1….when in reality all they did was trot out the same exact OL from the year prior…..while also adding Stafford. Niners kicked the s**t out of the Rams OL bulk of the game, but unfortunately folded in the end. This is when NC became laser focused on pressure rates. -Sadly another NC fail

2022-PHI had the #1 OL and an elite QB. KC OL was not #1 and almost got PM killed in the playoffs and gave up a high pressure rate in the SB-. This is also where we were introduced to Unthreatening pressure-Fail NC.

#neverforget

A lot of revisionist history going on here. Time to dust this off.

I think the whole "Let's wait until after the SB winner is determined to crown the best O line for the season" is a way for NC to never be wrong about his formula. The fact of the matter is you don't win the jackpot today with yesterdays winning numbers.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I think the whole "Let's wait until after the SB winner is determined to crown the best O line for the season" is a way for NC to never be wrong about his formula. The fact of the matter is you don't win the jackpot today with yesterdays winning numbers.

It's exactly what it is. . If he just had an ounce of humility and wasn't so fixated on trying to be right, he wouldn't get so much s**t.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Cosmo:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I personally could care less what you think. You're a clown if you don't think I covet a FQB. In fact, the very basis of this entire THREAD is to protect that very FQB because we know from our very own history what happens to those without great unit PP.

But you do, you.

Couldn't* care less :)

We've had QB injuries but I'm not sure they are necessarily the fault of the OL right? Definitely none of the major ones suffered by Jimmy, Trey, or Brock.

Notice how he doesn't actually ever say O line pass protection when mentioning those QB injuries. He carefully uses the term unit pass protection. As if the O line is also responsible for Jimmy tearing his ACL outside the pocket, Trey breaking his ankle on a QB draw when he had reached the second level of the defense or Brock with a UCL tear because of a poor blocking effort by a TE. None of those major injuries were due to the O line.

Pass protection extends well beyond just the OL. Kyle knows this intimately from the Atlanta Superbowl loss. Montana beat to hell from failed pick ups. Young ended his career on a failed pick up by the RB. Brock and the TE fail. Jimmy post injuries from insta-pressures and failed pick ups.

When run blocking is your emphasis and not pass protection, it extends to the unit that is responsible for protecting your QB.

When pass protection fails (OL ), QB's get hurt. It's just a matter of time.

PS: CMC has been extremely helpful in this area.

We should change this thread title to the unit pass protection thread if that is the case. Because the O line is strictly from LT to RT. Blaming the O line because of what a TE did or didn't do is disengenuous. It wouldn't matter how much upgrading we did on the O line if the TE still misses a block and allows a pass rusher to get by.

I understand. It's a systemic issue IMHO. Where the focus and priority is. I have no issues talking just OL but my biggest concern has always been PP in general because it always rears its ugly head in the playoffs and when it matters most.

Have any stats on the rest of the unit PP team?

No. I don't because I strictly do research on the O line for the O line thread. Its why I hesitate to include anything rushing because there really isn't any stats that separate the O line run blocking from unit run blocking. Perhaps we need a separate thread for discussion pertaining to all things systemic.

Fair enough. I'd love to look at the whole picture esp. because run blocking (as a unit) is their strength and that shouldn't be diminished in the grand scheme of things. I'm not sure how we'd do that though.

I did include rushing efficiency in one of my charts on page 2721 which moved our O line ranking from 22nd (pp) all the way up to 4th due to how efficient we have been running the ball. But again, there are no real run blocking stats to determine run blocking efficiency like there are pass blocking stats. Perhaps a cool project would be to create our own set of run blocking stats and start tracking them ourselves.

I thinks that's about where TW/BT had us as well. They look at the full picture so they had 2 of the top running teams in volume (us/5th and Ravens top 7).

IIRC, I thought I remembered something about PFF also carrying more weight towards run blocking a while back. I think because it's become more of a passing league and they wanted to weigh more evenly for those teams who are inverted and because it's more challenging for pass centric teams. I think Jeff Deeney told me that once. Don't quote me on that.

That might be a good start.

So what run blocking stats do you think would be good? I think pancake blocks would be a good start. Maybe second level blocks? Or how long a player is able to hold their block?

I typically focus on the areas for improvement so I've never really dove too hard into our strengths (because it was so obvious). I probably haven't looked too far into it other than directions of runs, directional tendencies, YPC, fronts that made it challenging, tackles behind the LOS, gap/power/OZ, etc. Second level blocks, esp. in this scheme, would be huge for us.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha. My formula has been proven right every year.

I don't need to prove anything in here.

The QB-makes-the-OL crowd is 0-6.

So let's prove it again.

Let's take a few minutes to go over those NC 6 wins

2019-there was no formula at that time. NC was still operating off of QB hits since sacks were no longer applicable. Then QB hits went the way of the sack that year which was followed by a laundry list of excuses as to why. Then the 49ers caved to a Chiefs team that was not boasting a top OL and Mahomes absolutely turned into super man after getting the s**t kicked out of him the entire game. NC also told everyone during a debate that KC had actually kept PM clean the entire game and it was actually the Niners OL who got destroyed all game. When it was brought to his attention that he was wrong, he then shifted that the true OL's really hold up in the last 2 minutes and PM had nothing to do with it. Some outside of the box logic, I can respect that. -NC Fail

2020-formula was still not a thing at this time, but rather in its infancy . TB brought on Brady after a horrendous OL year in 2019. All of a sudden the same OL, that was essentially the exact same OL from the year prior, transformed into a top unit after Brady showed up. They beat down a Chiefs OL that was rated high, but depleted with injuries at all key OL positions and NC claimed victory-In reality this was another NC fail.

2021-This was the best chance NC had at seizing victory….had he not told everyone that the Rams had learned their lesson and prioritized and rehauled their OL to be #1….when in reality all they did was trot out the same exact OL from the year prior…..while also adding Stafford. Niners kicked the s**t out of the Rams OL bulk of the game, but unfortunately folded in the end. This is when NC became laser focused on pressure rates. -Sadly another NC fail

2022-PHI had the #1 OL and an elite QB. KC OL was not #1 and almost got PM killed in the playoffs and gave up a high pressure rate in the SB-. This is also where we were introduced to Unthreatening pressure-Fail NC.

#neverforget

A lot of revisionist history going on here. Time to dust this off.

I think the whole "Let's wait until after the SB winner is determined to crown the best O line for the season" is a way for NC to never be wrong about his formula. The fact of the matter is you don't win the jackpot today with yesterdays winning numbers.

Except they provide everything in advance and then review weekly as injuries and personnel changes. Which coincidently matches your PFF rankings too.

That's the opposite of hindsight.

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2024-offensive-line-playoff-rankings/

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Cosmo:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I personally could care less what you think. You're a clown if you don't think I covet a FQB. In fact, the very basis of this entire THREAD is to protect that very FQB because we know from our very own history what happens to those without great unit PP.

But you do, you.

Couldn't* care less :)

We've had QB injuries but I'm not sure they are necessarily the fault of the OL right? Definitely none of the major ones suffered by Jimmy, Trey, or Brock.

Notice how he doesn't actually ever say O line pass protection when mentioning those QB injuries. He carefully uses the term unit pass protection. As if the O line is also responsible for Jimmy tearing his ACL outside the pocket, Trey breaking his ankle on a QB draw when he had reached the second level of the defense or Brock with a UCL tear because of a poor blocking effort by a TE. None of those major injuries were due to the O line.

Pass protection extends well beyond just the OL. Kyle knows this intimately from the Atlanta Superbowl loss. Montana beat to hell from failed pick ups. Young ended his career on a failed pick up by the RB. Brock and the TE fail. Jimmy post injuries from insta-pressures and failed pick ups.

When run blocking is your emphasis and not pass protection, it extends to the unit that is responsible for protecting your QB.

When pass protection fails (OL ), QB's get hurt. It's just a matter of time.

PS: CMC has been extremely helpful in this area.

We should change this thread title to the unit pass protection thread if that is the case. Because the O line is strictly from LT to RT. Blaming the O line because of what a TE did or didn't do is disengenuous. It wouldn't matter how much upgrading we did on the O line if the TE still misses a block and allows a pass rusher to get by.

I understand. It's a systemic issue IMHO. Where the focus and priority is. I have no issues talking just OL but my biggest concern has always been PP in general because it always rears its ugly head in the playoffs and when it matters most.

Have any stats on the rest of the unit PP team?

No. I don't because I strictly do research on the O line for the O line thread. Its why I hesitate to include anything rushing because there really isn't any stats that separate the O line run blocking from unit run blocking. Perhaps we need a separate thread for discussion pertaining to all things systemic.

Fair enough. I'd love to look at the whole picture esp. because run blocking (as a unit) is their strength and that shouldn't be diminished in the grand scheme of things. I'm not sure how we'd do that though.

I did include rushing efficiency in one of my charts on page 2721 which moved our O line ranking from 22nd (pp) all the way up to 4th due to how efficient we have been running the ball. But again, there are no real run blocking stats to determine run blocking efficiency like there are pass blocking stats. Perhaps a cool project would be to create our own set of run blocking stats and start tracking them ourselves.

I thinks that's about where TW/BT had us as well. They look at the full picture so they had 2 of the top running teams in volume (us/5th and Ravens top 7).

IIRC, I thought I remembered something about PFF also carrying more weight towards run blocking a while back. I think because it's become more of a passing league and they wanted to weigh more evenly for those teams who are inverted and because it's more challenging for pass centric teams. I think Jeff Deeney told me that once. Don't quote me on that.

That might be a good start.

So what run blocking stats do you think would be good? I think pancake blocks would be a good start. Maybe second level blocks? Or how long a player is able to hold their block?

I typically focus on the areas for improvement so I've never really dove too hard into our strengths (because it was so obvious). I probably haven't looked too far into it other than directions of runs, directional tendencies, YPC, fronts that made it challenging, tackles behind the LOS, gap/power/OZ, etc. Second level blocks, esp. in this scheme, would be huge for us.

Do some brainstorming and I will do the same. We'll reconvene at a later time. Preferably in the off season.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Cosmo:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I personally could care less what you think. You're a clown if you don't think I covet a FQB. In fact, the very basis of this entire THREAD is to protect that very FQB because we know from our very own history what happens to those without great unit PP.

But you do, you.

Couldn't* care less :)

We've had QB injuries but I'm not sure they are necessarily the fault of the OL right? Definitely none of the major ones suffered by Jimmy, Trey, or Brock.

Notice how he doesn't actually ever say O line pass protection when mentioning those QB injuries. He carefully uses the term unit pass protection. As if the O line is also responsible for Jimmy tearing his ACL outside the pocket, Trey breaking his ankle on a QB draw when he had reached the second level of the defense or Brock with a UCL tear because of a poor blocking effort by a TE. None of those major injuries were due to the O line.

Pass protection extends well beyond just the OL. Kyle knows this intimately from the Atlanta Superbowl loss. Montana beat to hell from failed pick ups. Young ended his career on a failed pick up by the RB. Brock and the TE fail. Jimmy post injuries from insta-pressures and failed pick ups.

When run blocking is your emphasis and not pass protection, it extends to the unit that is responsible for protecting your QB.

When pass protection fails (OL ), QB's get hurt. It's just a matter of time.

PS: CMC has been extremely helpful in this area.

We should change this thread title to the unit pass protection thread if that is the case. Because the O line is strictly from LT to RT. Blaming the O line because of what a TE did or didn't do is disengenuous. It wouldn't matter how much upgrading we did on the O line if the TE still misses a block and allows a pass rusher to get by.

I understand. It's a systemic issue IMHO. Where the focus and priority is. I have no issues talking just OL but my biggest concern has always been PP in general because it always rears its ugly head in the playoffs and when it matters most.

Have any stats on the rest of the unit PP team?

No. I don't because I strictly do research on the O line for the O line thread. Its why I hesitate to include anything rushing because there really isn't any stats that separate the O line run blocking from unit run blocking. Perhaps we need a separate thread for discussion pertaining to all things systemic.

Fair enough. I'd love to look at the whole picture esp. because run blocking (as a unit) is their strength and that shouldn't be diminished in the grand scheme of things. I'm not sure how we'd do that though.

I did include rushing efficiency in one of my charts on page 2721 which moved our O line ranking from 22nd (pp) all the way up to 4th due to how efficient we have been running the ball. But again, there are no real run blocking stats to determine run blocking efficiency like there are pass blocking stats. Perhaps a cool project would be to create our own set of run blocking stats and start tracking them ourselves.

I thinks that's about where TW/BT had us as well. They look at the full picture so they had 2 of the top running teams in volume (us/5th and Ravens top 7).

IIRC, I thought I remembered something about PFF also carrying more weight towards run blocking a while back. I think because it's become more of a passing league and they wanted to weigh more evenly for those teams who are inverted and because it's more challenging for pass centric teams. I think Jeff Deeney told me that once. Don't quote me on that.

That might be a good start.

So what run blocking stats do you think would be good? I think pancake blocks would be a good start. Maybe second level blocks? Or how long a player is able to hold their block?

I typically focus on the areas for improvement so I've never really dove too hard into our strengths (because it was so obvious). I probably haven't looked too far into it other than directions of runs, directional tendencies, YPC, fronts that made it challenging, tackles behind the LOS, gap/power/OZ, etc. Second level blocks, esp. in this scheme, would be huge for us.

Do some brainstorming and I will do the same. We'll reconvene at a later time. Preferably in the off season.