49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
You're new here though. I've been showing these trends for YEARS. Everyone from JonnyDel to thl to Phoenix to even NY have come around to understand the importance of that marriage in terms of giving you the best odds to win a Superbowl. It's not the only way but there's no denying the early predictions and what ended up being the end results to boot.

Like I said, if you find a better personnel combination, let's see it. We're talking probability. Odds. Not a guarantee.

It's no coincidence that the same handful of angry posters in here are still angry after 7 years still. If you're b/w QB-centric, you're probably in that camp too.

The problem with that camp is we have the end results of them too when they don't have that marriage.

The problem is you are b/w centric about the OL and don't think the QB matters. It's why you bet the Lions. You can spin it all you want but even a new poster like Smokey figured it out within days of talking to you.

No one thinks the OL isn't important. Stop the gaslighting.

Confirmed. Blocked.

Enjoy your circle-jerk.

Elite DL + Elite playoff QB play= championship. Has worked year after year.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Confirmed. Blocked.

Enjoy your circle-jerk.

Facts are facts.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Confirmed. Blocked.

Enjoy your circle-jerk.

Facts are facts.

he's rooting against the 49ers so hard right now lol

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Just a reminder, it was never an OL + QB combo until recently for NC. He's making s**t up again to cover his ass. It was always OL only .

At least Faitfhul owns QB doesn't matter for him and he wants to QB proof his team. Own the bad takes.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Just a reminder, it was never an OL + QB combo until recently for NC. He's making s**t up again to cover his ass. It was always OL only .

At least Faitfhul owns QB doesn't matter for him and he wants to QB proof his team. Own the bad takes.

Faithful doesn't take himself nearly as seriously as NC does

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
he's rooting against the 49ers so hard right now lol

You don't root hard to lose a bet you put money on.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha. My formula has been proven right every year.

I don't need to prove anything in here.

The QB-makes-the-OL crowd is 0-6.

So let's prove it again.

Let's take a few minutes to go over those NC 6 wins

2019-there was no formula at that time. NC was still operating off of QB hits since sacks were no longer applicable. Then QB hits went the way of the sack that year which was followed by a laundry list of excuses as to why. Then the 49ers caved to a Chiefs team that was not boasting a top OL and Mahomes absolutely turned into super man after getting the s**t kicked out of him the entire game. NC also told everyone during a debate that KC had actually kept PM clean the entire game and it was actually the Niners OL who got destroyed all game. When it was brought to his attention that he was wrong, he then shifted that the true OL's really hold up in the last 2 minutes and PM had nothing to do with it. Some outside of the box logic, I can respect that. -NC Fail

2020-formula was still not a thing at this time, but rather in its infancy . TB brought on Brady after a horrendous OL year in 2019. All of a sudden the same OL, that was essentially the exact same OL from the year prior, transformed into a top unit after Brady showed up. They beat down a Chiefs OL that was rated high, but depleted with injuries at all key OL positions and NC claimed victory-In reality this was another NC fail.

2021-This was the best chance NC had at seizing victory….had he not told everyone that the Rams had learned their lesson and prioritized and rehauled their OL to be #1….when in reality all they did was trot out the same exact OL from the year prior…..while also adding Stafford. Niners kicked the s**t out of the Rams OL bulk of the game, but unfortunately folded in the end. This is when NC became laser focused on pressure rates. -Sadly another NC fail

2022-PHI had the #1 OL and an elite QB. KC OL was not #1 and almost got PM killed in the playoffs and gave up a high pressure rate in the SB-. This is also where we were introduced to Unthreatening pressure-Fail NC.

#neverforget

A lot of revisionist history going on here. Time to dust this off.

I think the whole "Let's wait until after the SB winner is determined to crown the best O line for the season" is a way for NC to never be wrong about his formula. The fact of the matter is you don't win the jackpot today with yesterdays winning numbers.

Except they provide everything in advance and then review weekly as injuries and personnel changes. Which coincidently matches your PFF too.

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2024-offensive-line-playoff-rankings/

Maybe you are not understanding me. Let me try to say it another way. A fortune teller who predicts only the past and not the future is a terrible fortune teller. It means nothing to wait for the end result and then claim you knew all along. In society, that is what we call cheating.

The best team doesn't always win. The best QB doesn't always win. The best O line doesn't always win. Having all those things does give you a better chance to win. But having all those things does not guarantee a win.

You're new here though. I've been showing these trends for YEARS. Everyone from JonnyDel to thl to Phoenix to even NY have come around to understand the importance of that marriage in terms of giving you the best odds to win a Superbowl. It's not the only way but there's no denying the early predictions and what ended up being the end results to boot.

Like I said, if you find a better personnel combination, let's see it. We're talking probability. Odds. Not a guarantee.

It's no coincidence that the same handful of angry posters in here are still angry after 7 years still. If you're b/w QB-centric, you're probably in that camp too.

The problem with that camp is we have the end results of them too when they don't have that marriage.

I am not new here. I have been here since 2009. I lost my password and email for my insanemike27 account and created a new one. The mods let me keep my new one after they banned me and I explained to them my dilema.

Your cheating tactics do guarantee you a win in the debate. Its impossible to be wrong when you wait for the results and then claim the winner fits your "formula" just because they won. Then turn around and ignore all the evidence to the contrary. The fact that you (BT) claim that the chiefs had a tier 1 O line last season inspite all of the evidence to the contrary is my biggest issue with you. A tier 2 QB+ tier 1 O line lost the SB to a tier 1 QB+tier 3 O line last season.

Ahhhhhh, now this makes so much sense. I remember you!

Then you should know there's no "cheating." Noticing an early trend in today's game is not cheating. Letting the WZ know what that trend is early is not cheating. Letting the WZ know in advance what experts are noting and that correlation to winning Superbowls is not cheating. Acknowledging it's high correlation to actually winning Superbowls is not cheating. Consistently annually providing that information as early as pre season for the WZ is not cheating. And recognizing how counter that is to our own team building is not cheating.

IMHO, you're only cheating yourself by ignoring it all. And you're not alone. And that's fine.

At the end of the day, yes, I hold OL more valuable than you do in its marriage to a FQB. Whatever that line of demarcation is for you is your own. I merely brought the trend here for you to do what you will with it.

My guess is you value both as well, would love a tier 1 OL for Brock/Kyle, hence why even the handful of you all in here are already talking about improving it via the draft/FA this off season, but you don't see it AS important as I do. You see the truth. You're just fighting it.

To claim whatever O line that won the SB is the #1 O line because they won the SB is the most idiotic s**t I have ever read on this site. We should be able to determine which O line is #1 before the SB is ever played. 1 game doesn't determine whether a single unit is the best or not. That is determined over an entire seasons body of work.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Faithful doesn't take himself nearly as seriously as NC does

No one on this site does

Originally posted by YACBros85:
To claim whatever O line that won the SB is the #1 O line because they won the SB is the most idiotic s**t I have ever read on this site. We should be able to determine which O line is #1 before the SB is ever played. 1 game doesn't determine whether a single unit is the best or not. That is determined over an entire seasons body of work.

It's worse than that. We all watched the Chiefs OL in the playoffs last year. They weren't good. But because he's so married to his narrative he can't admit what was clear as day. So no matter how they performed in the playoffs because some random guy ranked em high at end of year they won because of their OL. That becomes "fact".

Then you provide data and it gets completely ignored when it doesn't fit in with that one guys "facts"

It's all been disingenious for years.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
You got me bro. We both wanted Wirfs as well. Imagine if they drafted him and still got Trent. oooof.

Imagine if we drafted Brady?

Or Lamar Jackson?

Or Mahomes?

I mean we can go on forever with "What ifs." They don't really serve much of a purpose though.

Pretending we had a chance to draft wirf is also hilarious

I mean, we had a chance. Tackle was just not considered a "need" at that point with MM.

oh s**t, i forgot about that trade

hahah yes this is exactly what I meant. At that time we had MM and no LT. Many of us where like ok we swapped Buck for Kinlaw? .....meh? I wanted Wirfs instead.

Then we heard about Trent Williams and said oh ok and while I understood the logic, I didn't like MM and wanted Wirfs regardless. Jimmy G was so blah that I felt like he needed cement wall to have a real chance.

As far as the what if's, its human nature. All NC and I are saying is imagine if they had put a little more investment into the oline. Right now its probably the biggest concern on an otherwise championship caliber roster.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Good call. Definitely forgot about that.

Fire Lynch and Shanahan, lol.

lol no, but it shows you how everyone front office has hits and misses. They've mad many first round misses imo, but make up for it elsewhere.

Their "miss" was in what they prioritized at that time. Instead of BPA, they immediately tried to replace Buckner with a guy who doesn't know how to play football b/c DL > OL in their building strategy.

That strategy has gotten us to the playoffs 4 out of 7 years

True, but that also means their strategy has not been good enough. Now I'll argue the issue has been QB play far more than any o line issues, but I think we have that solved. The o line is certainly the unit that can and should be improved this offseason. I am simply saying the o line has not had the attention or success as they've had like the rest of the roster.

Specifically I think we can all agree the Kinlaw pick was a bust. It happens, it just sucks when many of us were perfectly fine with Wirfs who is pretty damn good.

If they go o line heavy in the draft nobody here will be arguing that. I think they will because Trent is not getting younger so its time to throw bodies at those positions. Actually, I am pretty sure somebody will argue it, but it wont be anyone posting in here regular right now lol

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
True, but that also means their strategy has not been good enough. Now I'll argue the issue has been QB play far more than any o line issues, but I think we have that solved. The o line is certainly the unit that can and should be improved this offseason. I am simply saying the o line has not had the attention or success as they've had like the rest of the roster.

Specifically I think we can all agree the Kinlaw pick was a bust. It happens, it just sucks when many of us were perfectly fine with Wirfs who is pretty damn good.

If they go o line heavy in the draft nobody here will be arguing that. I think they will because Trent is not getting younger so its time to throw bodies at those positions. Actually, I am pretty sure somebody will argue it, but it wont be anyone posting in here regular right now lol

Well luckily this year its a strong OT draft so the strength of the draft fits with that need. Doesn't always happen.

So if the 9ers take Wirfs do they still trade for Trent in your mind? Does Wirfs play guard? Do we still end up with Aiyuk? If so how since we didn't have a 4th.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
To claim whatever O line that won the SB is the #1 O line because they won the SB is the most idiotic s**t I have ever read on this site. We should be able to determine which O line is #1 before the SB is ever played. 1 game doesn't determine whether a single unit is the best or not. That is determined over an entire seasons body of work.

It's worse than that. We all watched the Chiefs OL in the playoffs last year. They weren't good. But because he's so married to his narrative he can't admit what was clear as day. So no matter how they performed in the playoffs because some random guy ranked em high at end of year they won because of their OL. That becomes "fact".

Then you provide data and it gets completely ignored when it doesn't fit in with that one guys "facts"

It's all been disingenious for years.

NC is by far the most frustrating poster to debate on this entire site. He provides very little in his arguments and demands that everyone else provide more and more only for him to ignore what you provided. When things get real bad for him he carefully words his phrases hoping you won't catch on to his bs. Its why I had him on mute a month or so back. I think I am done with this debate all together. Its become pointless. Debating him is like playing a game with that kid in that Adam Sandler movie Big Daddy.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha. My formula has been proven right every year.

I don't need to prove anything in here.

The QB-makes-the-OL crowd is 0-6.

So let's prove it again.

Let's take a few minutes to go over those NC 6 wins

2019-there was no formula at that time. NC was still operating off of QB hits since sacks were no longer applicable. Then QB hits went the way of the sack that year which was followed by a laundry list of excuses as to why. Then the 49ers caved to a Chiefs team that was not boasting a top OL and Mahomes absolutely turned into super man after getting the s**t kicked out of him the entire game. NC also told everyone during a debate that KC had actually kept PM clean the entire game and it was actually the Niners OL who got destroyed all game. When it was brought to his attention that he was wrong, he then shifted that the true OL's really hold up in the last 2 minutes and PM had nothing to do with it. Some outside of the box logic, I can respect that. -NC Fail

2020-formula was still not a thing at this time, but rather in its infancy . TB brought on Brady after a horrendous OL year in 2019. All of a sudden the same OL, that was essentially the exact same OL from the year prior, transformed into a top unit after Brady showed up. They beat down a Chiefs OL that was rated high, but depleted with injuries at all key OL positions and NC claimed victory-In reality this was another NC fail.

2021-This was the best chance NC had at seizing victory….had he not told everyone that the Rams had learned their lesson and prioritized and rehauled their OL to be #1….when in reality all they did was trot out the same exact OL from the year prior…..while also adding Stafford. Niners kicked the s**t out of the Rams OL bulk of the game, but unfortunately folded in the end. This is when NC became laser focused on pressure rates. -Sadly another NC fail

2022-PHI had the #1 OL and an elite QB. KC OL was not #1 and almost got PM killed in the playoffs and gave up a high pressure rate in the SB-. This is also where we were introduced to Unthreatening pressure-Fail NC.

#neverforget

A lot of revisionist history going on here. Time to dust this off.

I think the whole "Let's wait until after the SB winner is determined to crown the best O line for the season" is a way for NC to never be wrong about his formula. The fact of the matter is you don't win the jackpot today with yesterdays winning numbers.

Except they provide everything in advance and then review weekly as injuries and personnel changes. Which coincidently matches your PFF too.

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2024-offensive-line-playoff-rankings/

Maybe you are not understanding me. Let me try to say it another way. A fortune teller who predicts only the past and not the future is a terrible fortune teller. It means nothing to wait for the end result and then claim you knew all along. In society, that is what we call cheating.

The best team doesn't always win. The best QB doesn't always win. The best O line doesn't always win. Having all those things does give you a better chance to win. But having all those things does not guarantee a win.

You're new here though. I've been showing these trends for YEARS. Everyone from JonnyDel to thl to Phoenix to even NY have come around to understand the importance of that marriage in terms of giving you the best odds to win a Superbowl. It's not the only way but there's no denying the early predictions and what ended up being the end results to boot.

Like I said, if you find a better personnel combination, let's see it. We're talking probability. Odds. Not a guarantee.

It's no coincidence that the same handful of angry posters in here are still angry after 7 years still. If you're b/w QB-centric, you're probably in that camp too.

The problem with that camp is we have the end results of them too when they don't have that marriage.

I am not new here. I have been here since 2009. I lost my password and email for my insanemike27 account and created a new one. The mods let me keep my new one after they banned me and I explained to them my dilema.

Your cheating tactics do guarantee you a win in the debate. Its impossible to be wrong when you wait for the results and then claim the winner fits your "formula" just because they won. Then turn around and ignore all the evidence to the contrary. The fact that you (BT) claim that the chiefs had a tier 1 O line last season inspite all of the evidence to the contrary is my biggest issue with you. A tier 2 QB+ tier 1 O line lost the SB to a tier 1 QB+tier 3 O line last season.

Ahhhhhh, now this makes so much sense. I remember you!

Then you should know there's no "cheating." Noticing an early trend in today's game is not cheating. Letting the WZ know what that trend is early is not cheating. Letting the WZ know in advance what experts are noting and that correlation to winning Superbowls is not cheating. Acknowledging it's high correlation to actually winning Superbowls is not cheating. Consistently annually providing that information as early as pre season for the WZ is not cheating. And recognizing how counter that is to our own team building is not cheating.

IMHO, you're only cheating yourself by ignoring it all. And you're not alone. And that's fine.

At the end of the day, yes, I hold OL more valuable than you do in its marriage to a FQB. Whatever that line of demarcation is for you is your own. I merely brought the trend here for you to do what you will with it.

My guess is you value both as well, would love a tier 1 OL for Brock/Kyle, hence why even the handful of you all in here are already talking about improving it via the draft/FA this off season, but you don't see it AS important as I do. You see the truth. You're just fighting it.

To claim whatever O line that won the SB is the #1 O line because they won the SB is the most idiotic s**t I have ever read on this site. We should be able to determine which O line is #1 before the SB is ever played. 1 game doesn't determine whether a single unit is the best or not. That is determined over an entire seasons body of work.

I never said that. I merely stated who TW/BT noted in tier 1 each year, in pre season, during the season, sometimes weekly, end of the year, going into the playoffs, etc. Like I did this year. If those teams also magically end up having tier 1 QB's and win Superbowls, perhaps you should take note esp. if it's been the case for 7 straight years.

You're not going to find a better combo so why fight it? You've already seen the other side of that formula. Sticking with that is the very definition of insanity.

Tier 2 is the highest our OL has ever been rated by SME's. Add an MVP FQB to that and you've got a great formula for winning (as long as they can lean on the running game).

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
You got me bro. We both wanted Wirfs as well. Imagine if they drafted him and still got Trent. oooof.

Imagine if we drafted Brady?

Or Lamar Jackson?

Or Mahomes?

I mean we can go on forever with "What ifs." They don't really serve much of a purpose though.

Pretending we had a chance to draft wirf is also hilarious

I mean, we had a chance. Tackle was just not considered a "need" at that point with MM.

oh s**t, i forgot about that trade

hahah yes this is exactly what I meant. At that time we had MM and no LT. Many of us where like ok we swapped Buck for Kinlaw? .....meh? I wanted Wirfs instead.

Then we heard about Trent Williams and said oh ok and while I understood the logic, I didn't like MM and wanted Wirfs regardless. Jimmy G was so blah that I felt like he needed cement wall to have a real chance.

As far as the what if's, its human nature. All NC and I are saying is imagine if they had put a little more investment into the oline. Right now its probably the biggest concern on an otherwise championship caliber roster.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Good call. Definitely forgot about that.

Fire Lynch and Shanahan, lol.

lol no, but it shows you how everyone front office has hits and misses. They've mad many first round misses imo, but make up for it elsewhere.

Their "miss" was in what they prioritized at that time. Instead of BPA, they immediately tried to replace Buckner with a guy who doesn't know how to play football b/c DL > OL in their building strategy.

That strategy has gotten us to the playoffs 4 out of 7 years

True, but that also means their strategy has not been good enough. Now I'll argue the issue has been QB play far more than any o line issues, but I think we have that solved. The o line is certainly the unit that can and should be improved this offseason. I am simply saying the o line has not had the attention or success as they've had like the rest of the roster.

Specifically I think we can all agree the Kinlaw pick was a bust. It happens, it just sucks when many of us were perfectly fine with Wirfs who is pretty damn good.

If they go o line heavy in the draft nobody here will be arguing that. I think they will because Trent is not getting younger so its time to throw bodies at those positions. Actually, I am pretty sure somebody will argue it, but it wont be anyone posting in here regular right now lol

i was joking as NC likes to make absolute bad takes and I was following suit

I'm all for upgrading all positions. While OL and other positions are now in line to upgrade, OL hasn't been solely the reason we haven't won a championship