49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
To claim whatever O line that won the SB is the #1 O line because they won the SB is the most idiotic s**t I have ever read on this site. We should be able to determine which O line is #1 before the SB is ever played. 1 game doesn't determine whether a single unit is the best or not. That is determined over an entire seasons body of work.

It's worse than that. We all watched the Chiefs OL in the playoffs last year. They weren't good. But because he's so married to his narrative he can't admit what was clear as day. So no matter how they performed in the playoffs because some random guy ranked em high at end of year they won because of their OL. That becomes "fact".

Then you provide data and it gets completely ignored when it doesn't fit in with that one guys "facts"

It's all been disingenious for years.

NC is by far the most frustrating poster to debate on this entire site. He provides very little in his arguments and demands that everyone else provide more and more only for him to ignore what you provided. When things get real bad for him he carefully words his phrases hoping you won't catch on to his bs. Its why I had him on mute a month or so back. I think I am done with this debate all together. Its become pointless. Debating him is like playing a game with that kid in that Adam Sandler movie Big Daddy.

Bye!

Now we all can get back to talking OL and you 4 can go back to blaming the QB if we don't win.

Translation: now I can run around unchecked while I continue to b******t everyone and silence means I am right.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
You got me bro. We both wanted Wirfs as well. Imagine if they drafted him and still got Trent. oooof.

Imagine if we drafted Brady?

Or Lamar Jackson?

Or Mahomes?

I mean we can go on forever with "What ifs." They don't really serve much of a purpose though.

Pretending we had a chance to draft wirf is also hilarious

I mean, we had a chance. Tackle was just not considered a "need" at that point with MM.

oh s**t, i forgot about that trade

hahah yes this is exactly what I meant. At that time we had MM and no LT. Many of us where like ok we swapped Buck for Kinlaw? .....meh? I wanted Wirfs instead.

Then we heard about Trent Williams and said oh ok and while I understood the logic, I didn't like MM and wanted Wirfs regardless. Jimmy G was so blah that I felt like he needed cement wall to have a real chance.

As far as the what if's, its human nature. All NC and I are saying is imagine if they had put a little more investment into the oline. Right now its probably the biggest concern on an otherwise championship caliber roster.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Good call. Definitely forgot about that.

Fire Lynch and Shanahan, lol.

lol no, but it shows you how everyone front office has hits and misses. They've mad many first round misses imo, but make up for it elsewhere.

Their "miss" was in what they prioritized at that time. Instead of BPA, they immediately tried to replace Buckner with a guy who doesn't know how to play football b/c DL > OL in their building strategy.

That strategy has gotten us to the playoffs 4 out of 7 years

True, but that also means their strategy has not been good enough. Now I'll argue the issue has been QB play far more than any o line issues, but I think we have that solved. The o line is certainly the unit that can and should be improved this offseason. I am simply saying the o line has not had the attention or success as they've had like the rest of the roster.

Specifically I think we can all agree the Kinlaw pick was a bust. It happens, it just sucks when many of us were perfectly fine with Wirfs who is pretty damn good.

If they go o line heavy in the draft nobody here will be arguing that. I think they will because Trent is not getting younger so its time to throw bodies at those positions. Actually, I am pretty sure somebody will argue it, but it wont be anyone posting in here regular right now lol

"Good enough."

You just triggered five people so hard. Haha.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Translation: now I can run around unchecked while I continue to b******t everyone and silence means I am right.

Some people enjoy only being in echo chambers. That's why Twitter is an absolute poison to our society

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Just a reminder, it was never an OL + QB combo until recently for NC. He's making s**t up again to cover his ass. It was always OL only .

At least Faitfhul owns QB doesn't matter for him and he wants to QB proof his team. Own the bad takes.

Speak for yourself, you need to get credit for your lovely posts. I don't want that credit,
I own no such thing

I would say it's probably easier to forecast Bosa and Sewell are gonna win their matchup across from them, than to peer inside Brock or Trey to see how they are wired. It's how Walsh and Kyle, who are genius level at football, end up holding the bag on Lance and Gio Carmazzi over Brady. Drafting the QB is like hitting a half court shot, some luck is required, vs the more or less layup taking Bosa is. This is in no way to say QB doesn't matter. It's to say, don't take a QB and think that's gonna solve all your problems. Probably best to get your roster in order first, then you maximize QB success odds. BP seemed to do alright, walking into a loaded roster.

Happy to educate further, just let me know 9

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Just a reminder, it was never an OL + QB combo until recently for NC. He's making s**t up again to cover his ass. It was always OL only .

At least Faitfhul owns QB doesn't matter for him and he wants to QB proof his team. Own the bad takes.

Speak for yourself, you need to get credit for your lovely posts. I don't want that credit,
I own no such thing

I would say it's probably easier to forecast Bosa and Sewell are gonna win their matchup across from them, than to peer inside Brock or Trey to see how they are wired. It's how Walsh and Kyle, who are genius level at football, end up holding the bag on Lance and Gio Carmazzi over Brady. Drafting the QB is like hitting a half court shot, some luck is required, vs the more or less layup taking Bosa is. This is in no way to say QB doesn't matter. It's to say, don't take a QB and think that's gonna solve all your problems. Probably best to get your roster in order first, then you maximize QB success odds. BP seemed to do alright, walking into a loaded roster.

Happy to educate further, just let me know 9

LOL. The failed "good enough" posts.

Or at bare minimum, when you THINK you have your FQB, you do what you can to give him the best shot at success.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Just a reminder, it was never an OL + QB combo until recently for NC. He's making s**t up again to cover his ass. It was always OL only .

At least Faitfhul owns QB doesn't matter for him and he wants to QB proof his team. Own the bad takes.

Speak for yourself, you need to get credit for your lovely posts. I don't want that credit,
I own no such thing

I would say it's probably easier to forecast Bosa and Sewell are gonna win their matchup across from them, than to peer inside Brock or Trey to see how they are wired. It's how Walsh and Kyle, who are genius level at football, end up holding the bag on Lance and Gio Carmazzi over Brady. Drafting the QB is like hitting a half court shot, some luck is required, vs the more or less layup taking Bosa is. This is in no way to say QB doesn't matter. It's to say, don't take a QB and think that's gonna solve all your problems. Probably best to get your roster in order first, then you maximize QB success odds. BP seemed to do alright, walking into a loaded roster.

Happy to educate further, just let me know 9

LOL. The failed "good enough" posts.

Or at bare minimum, when you THINK you have your FQB, you do what you can to give him the best shot at success.

NC keeps repeating this BS as if the 49ers don't want a great OL, hello everyone does lol

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Speak for yourself, you need to get credit for your lovely posts. I don't want that credit,
I own no such thing

I would say it's probably easier to forecast Bosa and Sewell are gonna win their matchup across from them, than to peer inside Brock or Trey to see how they are wired. It's how Walsh and Kyle, who are genius level at football, end up holding the bag on Lance and Gio Carmazzi over Brady. Drafting the QB is like hitting a half court shot, some luck is required, vs the more or less layup taking Bosa is. This is in no way to say QB doesn't matter. It's to say, don't take a QB and think that's gonna solve all your problems. Probably best to get your roster in order first, then you maximize QB success odds. BP seemed to do alright, walking into a loaded roster.

Happy to educate further, just let me know 9

You used the words qb proof. Not me.

First of all it's just not easier to identify OL at this point with how college is blocking. OL has gone from a safe pick to every bit as questionable as QB.

Secondly no one has ever suggested just get a QB. It's QB is clearly the most important part. So to just settle for a day 3 QB by trying to stack the roster around them it's implying that the surrounding roster is more of a factor with a QB success than the QB itself. Just completely wrong to me.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Just a reminder, it was never an OL + QB combo until recently for NC. He's making s**t up again to cover his ass. It was always OL only .

At least Faitfhul owns QB doesn't matter for him and he wants to QB proof his team. Own the bad takes.

Speak for yourself, you need to get credit for your lovely posts. I don't want that credit,
I own no such thing

I would say it's probably easier to forecast Bosa and Sewell are gonna win their matchup across from them, than to peer inside Brock or Trey to see how they are wired. It's how Walsh and Kyle, who are genius level at football, end up holding the bag on Lance and Gio Carmazzi over Brady. Drafting the QB is like hitting a half court shot, some luck is required, vs the more or less layup taking Bosa is. This is in no way to say QB doesn't matter. It's to say, don't take a QB and think that's gonna solve all your problems. Probably best to get your roster in order first, then you maximize QB success odds. BP seemed to do alright, walking into a loaded roster.

Happy to educate further, just let me know 9

LOL. The failed "good enough" posts.

Or at bare minimum, when you THINK you have your FQB, you do what you can to give him the best shot at success.

NC keeps repeating this BS as if the 49ers don't want a great OL, hello everyone does lol

Thats the gaslighting. When in reality he doesn't seem to care about a great qb, just a great OL. QB is secondary. If he didnt think that he never picks the Lions.

We all would love elite QB and OL. I prioritize elite QB. That's the right way to go. Prioritizing OL and settling for late round picks in hopes of getting a franchise QB because it's happened a few times is insane to me.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Just a reminder, it was never an OL + QB combo until recently for NC. He's making s**t up again to cover his ass. It was always OL only .

At least Faitfhul owns QB doesn't matter for him and he wants to QB proof his team. Own the bad takes.

Speak for yourself, you need to get credit for your lovely posts. I don't want that credit,
I own no such thing

I would say it's probably easier to forecast Bosa and Sewell are gonna win their matchup across from them, than to peer inside Brock or Trey to see how they are wired. It's how Walsh and Kyle, who are genius level at football, end up holding the bag on Lance and Gio Carmazzi over Brady. Drafting the QB is like hitting a half court shot, some luck is required, vs the more or less layup taking Bosa is. This is in no way to say QB doesn't matter. It's to say, don't take a QB and think that's gonna solve all your problems. Probably best to get your roster in order first, then you maximize QB success odds. BP seemed to do alright, walking into a loaded roster.

Happy to educate further, just let me know 9

LOL. The failed "good enough" posts.

Or at bare minimum, when you THINK you have your FQB, you do what you can to give him the best shot at success.

NC keeps repeating this BS as if the 49ers don't want a great OL, hello everyone does lol

Thats the gaslighting. When in reality he doesn't seem to care about a great qb, just a great OL. QB is secondary. If he didnt think that he never picks the Lions.

We all would love elite QB and OL. I prioritize elite QB. That's the right way to go. Prioritizing OL and settling for late round picks in hopes of getting a franchise QB because it's happened a few times is insane to me.

It's funny now that he has to include QB to be right.. something we've been saying this entire time (better QB play is what we were missing)

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
It's funny now that he has to include QB to be right.. something we've been saying this entire time (better QB play is what we were missing)

Do you remember him always knowing Jimmy wasnt tier 1 and making that a major part of his argument? I sure as hell remember a myriad of excuses for Jimmy and never one complaint about his play.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Speak for yourself, you need to get credit for your lovely posts. I don't want that credit,
I own no such thing

I would say it's probably easier to forecast Bosa and Sewell are gonna win their matchup across from them, than to peer inside Brock or Trey to see how they are wired. It's how Walsh and Kyle, who are genius level at football, end up holding the bag on Lance and Gio Carmazzi over Brady. Drafting the QB is like hitting a half court shot, some luck is required, vs the more or less layup taking Bosa is. This is in no way to say QB doesn't matter. It's to say, don't take a QB and think that's gonna solve all your problems. Probably best to get your roster in order first, then you maximize QB success odds. BP seemed to do alright, walking into a loaded roster.

Happy to educate further, just let me know 9

You used the words qb proof. Not me.

First of all it's just not easier to identify OL at this point with how college is blocking. OL has gone from a safe pick to every bit as questionable as QB.

Secondly no one has ever suggested just get a QB. It's QB is clearly the most important part. So to just settle for a day 3 QB by trying to stack the roster around them it's implying that the surrounding roster is more of a factor with a QB success than the QB itself. Just completely wrong to me.

QB proof isn't meant as literal. After we just spent 3 ones, and the guy was non functional on a loaded roster, this should be pretty clear.

It's easier to project RBs, TE, OL and DL imo. DET made all the layups, LaPorta, Gibbs, Hutchinson, Sewell. That's how they went from doormat for decades to winner, in addition to good coaching, it's very difficult to change the culture from losing to winning. I don't like how QB has a much greater likelihood of error. The fact KS and JL, knowing all they do, can get it so wrong should be illustrative. So the dilemma is you need the high end QB, but it's not without massive risk in the draft. QB is harder to project imo, as there is more on the QBs plate. RB can be as straightforward as see hole, hit hole. Not entirely, in the pass game, but surely there are positions where it's easier to acclimate to the pro game. QB has media, leadership, face of the franchise responsibilities, that other positions don't have. You see guys like Z Wilson and Fields, and they struggle with the media. Lance, we had the critique of needs to work on his LR voice. It's not just a skills or athletic projection, it's a who are you as a man and leader, not a whole lot of dudes wired to have ice in the veins, career start number 1 vs Tom Brady, like a Brock Purdy. He has a lot of 'right stuff' traits, and you don't know it til he's out there doing it at this level.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
It's funny now that he has to include QB to be right.. something we've been saying this entire time (better QB play is what we were missing)

Do you remember him always knowing Jimmy wasnt tier 1 and making that a major part of his argument? I sure as hell remember a myriad of excuses for Jimmy and never one complaint about his play.

for sure and it's the reason why i like to give him crap here.. i also like the new "I've been saying this for 7 years" bit with his constantly changing takes

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
QB proof isn't meant as literal. After we just spent 3 ones, and the guy was non functional on a loaded roster, this should be pretty clear.

It's easier to project RBs, TE, OL and DL imo. DET made all the layups, LaPorta, Gibbs, Hutchinson, Sewell. That's how they went from doormat for decades to winner, in addition to good coaching, it's very difficult to change the culture from losing to winning. I don't like how QB has a much greater likelihood of error. The fact KS and JL, knowing all they do, can get it so wrong should be illustrative. So the dilemma is you need the high end QB, but it's not without massive risk in the draft. QB is harder to project imo, as there is more on the QBs plate. RB can be as straightforward as see hole, hit hole. Not entirely, in the pass game, but surely there are positions where it's easier to acclimate to the pro game. QB has media, leadership, face of the franchise responsibilities, that other positions don't have. You see guys like Z Wilson and Fields, and they struggle with the media. Lance, we had the critique of needs to work on his LR voice. It's not just a skills or athletic projection, it's a who are you as a man and leader, not a whole lot of dudes wired to have ice in the veins, career start number 1 vs Tom Brady, like a Brock Purdy. He has a lot of 'right stuff' traits, and you don't know it til he's out there doing it at this level.

What's funny is you don't see that being arguably the most talented roster ever that selected a QB that high didn't actually help the highly drafted QB, and in fact was counterproductive to his development. You simply have to find a good one. You can't create one, or successfully manage around the position with consistent success, because you have a talented roster. There are so many examples of this. Incredibly talented teams that were held back by lacking a difference maker at QB. You've had two different regimes suffer through this with your favorite team over the last 12 ish years

And you don't seem to understand that teams have more than one pick in a draft, and while QB drafting success falls off a cliff the further you get away from the top of the draft the drop at other positions is less substantial. It's easier to find starters at other positions with lower round picks.

The 49ers are not a model for success as you described them. They are a model for what not to do, and happened to have one of the luckiest outcomes in draft history with Brock. It's not repeatable. The evidence, not feelings, is overwhelmingly stacked against it.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
QB proof isn't meant as literal. After we just spent 3 ones, and the guy was non functional on a loaded roster, this should be pretty clear.

It's easier to project RBs, TE, OL and DL imo. DET made all the layups, LaPorta, Gibbs, Hutchinson, Sewell. That's how they went from doormat for decades to winner, in addition to good coaching, it's very difficult to change the culture from losing to winning. I don't like how QB has a much greater likelihood of error. The fact KS and JL, knowing all they do, can get it so wrong should be illustrative. So the dilemma is you need the high end QB, but it's not without massive risk in the draft. QB is harder to project imo, as there is more on the QBs plate. RB can be as straightforward as see hole, hit hole. Not entirely, in the pass game, but surely there are positions where it's easier to acclimate to the pro game. QB has media, leadership, face of the franchise responsibilities, that other positions don't have. You see guys like Z Wilson and Fields, and they struggle with the media. Lance, we had the critique of needs to work on his LR voice. It's not just a skills or athletic projection, it's a who are you as a man and leader, not a whole lot of dudes wired to have ice in the veins, career start number 1 vs Tom Brady, like a Brock Purdy. He has a lot of 'right stuff' traits, and you don't know it til he's out there doing it at this level.

I would agree there are more factors to Qbs success than just their ability.

However I don't agree it's easy to project if OL can play. Half the OTs that have been drafted in the 1st the last 5 years or so have been busts or disappointments. It's not a layup position at all. Guard and Center haven't been a whole lot better.

Talent around the Qb also extends past just the OL too. How good is the defense at getting stops. What's does the skill guys look like. When every team is dumbed down to what their QB/OL combo is and everything else is ignored it's the mark of someone who doesn't understand the complexity of football whatsoever.