49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's what makes the draft interesting for me. You truly never know what any GM/Coach is going to do in the draft. After the first two picks - it's basically unpredictable at that point.

Having said that, Kyle's made up for a lot of his OLine shortcomings with his free agency acquisitions. That always seems a positive and not a negative attribute in Kyle's case. I think he does this on purpose. So he can devote the draft to his weakness (in a sense) the defense. I.e. he's not a defensive coach, and he'll let his offensive expertise make up the talent differential on the offense (and more specifically) the offensive line - and let the defense have all the athletic talent. Just a theory.

Kyle is well versed on the Defensive side... Trying to turn opinions into facts is whats causing this thread to turn to crap

Defense is more about talent than scheme.

That's if you have the talent, but that is irrelevant to your statement of Kyle not knowing Defense

Kyle promotes all his offensive coaches to study the Defensive side first as he did. It's the basis of how he can exploit defenses with his scheme

I never said Kyle *didn't know defense* - I said - it's not his strength.

LOL. All.

Reminds me of SmokeyJoe saying he didn't say what he said he said.

He's blocked so I didn't even need to see what he said but instantly recognized the trend just by your response. LOL

"That's not what I said" is the most common response to All, Hoov, 9ers4eva, etc. It's almost like they're all 1 account.

Yeah, I can see your point. I think it revolves around semantics and whatnot. Personally, I just want to talk football, not semantics.

And memory retention d/t a lot of drugs. Smokey knows what I'm talking about. j/k

lol this foo

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Whatever you do don't ever challenge him or he will get indignant, block you and then proceed to repeatedly tell everyone how he has you blocked .

Like I said before, I have no problem with NC. Not really in to all the long running feuds. If I disagree with him I'll just present an argument and listen to his. If I feel he's acting in bad faith over time I'll just move on. Maybe take a shot or two in good fun.

At least he can read and understand basic English. That's not a given around here, lol.

Unfortunately the bad faith arguments on his part have just gone above and beyond to where I have zero respect for his opinion. I probably should have just kept ignoring the posts and not f**k with him so much …but I'm what you would call a jacksss l😆

Originally posted by Giedi:
Kyle's strength is offense, *not* defense. He's known for offense - not defense. I don't know how much more clear I can be. It's also clear that Kyle's been overdrafting the defensive side with all the draft capital devoted to the defensive line. Again, I don't disagree with that strategy at all. But it does leave other parts of the team under drafted - like the offensive line.

Kyle has a preference for small but agile offensive linemen that aren't as valued in the NFL like the big first round behemoth's - typical of other offenses. So he *thinks* he can get away with drafting Offensive linemen later in the draft and getting them in free agency. That can get him in trouble in the playoffs when he can't scheme around very talented playoff defenses that can play disciplined defense. Example - the Ravens game.

2nd round pick: Aaron Banks. Large guard not ideal for zone blocking scheme. That's the highest draft pick investment Kyle's made on a lineman outside of Mike McGlinchey.

This should indicate to you that he's willing to go outside of the philosophical preference you're assigning to him.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's what makes the draft interesting for me. You truly never know what any GM/Coach is going to do in the draft. After the first two picks - it's basically unpredictable at that point.

Having said that, Kyle's made up for a lot of his OLine shortcomings with his free agency acquisitions. That always seems a positive and not a negative attribute in Kyle's case. I think he does this on purpose. So he can devote the draft to his weakness (in a sense) the defense. I.e. he's not a defensive coach, and he'll let his offensive expertise make up the talent differential on the offense (and more specifically) the offensive line - and let the defense have all the athletic talent. Just a theory.

Kyle is well versed on the Defensive side... Trying to turn opinions into facts is whats causing this thread to turn to crap

Defense is more about talent than scheme.

That's if you have the talent, but that is irrelevant to your statement of Kyle not knowing Defense

Kyle promotes all his offensive coaches to study the Defensive side first as he did. It's the basis of how he can exploit defenses with his scheme

I never said Kyle *didn't know defense* - I said - it's not his strength.

LOL. All.

Reminds me of SmokeyJoe saying he didn't say what he said he said.

He's blocked so I didn't even need to see what he said but instantly recognized the trend just by your response. LOL

"That's not what I said" is the most common response to All, Hoov, 9ers4eva, etc. It's almost like they're all 1 account.

Yeah, I can see your point. I think it revolves around semantics and whatnot. Personally, I just want to talk football, not semantics.

lol you're the one who brought up semantics because i didn't post what you said as verbatim

and because of that doesn't mean what you posted is correct, hence "Trying to turn opinions into facts is whats causing this thread to turn to crap"

Well, if you don't type clearly *what you mean* how can anybody understand what you are really saying?

Point being, Kyle's a good head coach. His strength is offense. He understands defense, but he doesn't *coach* the defense - otherwise he'd also be a defensive coordinator a la Bill Belichick. My point simply is that defense is more centered around talent, vs Scheme. Scheme requires more coaching, in my opinion. Talent on defense requires a much more simple scheme so the defense can play to their talent. To Kyle, the offensive line isn't as much a priority as his defensive line. For example. That's a strategic decision on his part - but it comes with consequences.

Originally posted by NCommand:
And memory retention d/t a lot of drugs. Smokey knows what I'm talking about. j/k

My memory is on point, lol. Room to burn.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's what makes the draft interesting for me. You truly never know what any GM/Coach is going to do in the draft. After the first two picks - it's basically unpredictable at that point.

Having said that, Kyle's made up for a lot of his OLine shortcomings with his free agency acquisitions. That always seems a positive and not a negative attribute in Kyle's case. I think he does this on purpose. So he can devote the draft to his weakness (in a sense) the defense. I.e. he's not a defensive coach, and he'll let his offensive expertise make up the talent differential on the offense (and more specifically) the offensive line - and let the defense have all the athletic talent. Just a theory.

Kyle is well versed on the Defensive side... Trying to turn opinions into facts is whats causing this thread to turn to crap

Defense is more about talent than scheme.

That's if you have the talent, but that is irrelevant to your statement of Kyle not knowing Defense

Kyle promotes all his offensive coaches to study the Defensive side first as he did. It's the basis of how he can exploit defenses with his scheme

I never said Kyle *didn't know defense* - I said - it's not his strength.

LOL. All.

Reminds me of SmokeyJoe saying he didn't say what he said he said.

He's blocked so I didn't even need to see what he said but instantly recognized the trend just by your response. LOL

"That's not what I said" is the most common response to All, Hoov, 9ers4eva, etc. It's almost like they're all 1 account.

Yeah, I can see your point. I think it revolves around semantics and whatnot. Personally, I just want to talk football, not semantics.

And memory retention d/t a lot of drugs. Smokey knows what I'm talking about. j/k

Heh, the name somehow does allude to that. Not saying anymore than that since you are just jesting.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's what makes the draft interesting for me. You truly never know what any GM/Coach is going to do in the draft. After the first two picks - it's basically unpredictable at that point.

Having said that, Kyle's made up for a lot of his OLine shortcomings with his free agency acquisitions. That always seems a positive and not a negative attribute in Kyle's case. I think he does this on purpose. So he can devote the draft to his weakness (in a sense) the defense. I.e. he's not a defensive coach, and he'll let his offensive expertise make up the talent differential on the offense (and more specifically) the offensive line - and let the defense have all the athletic talent. Just a theory.

Kyle is well versed on the Defensive side... Trying to turn opinions into facts is whats causing this thread to turn to crap

Defense is more about talent than scheme.

That's if you have the talent, but that is irrelevant to your statement of Kyle not knowing Defense

Kyle promotes all his offensive coaches to study the Defensive side first as he did. It's the basis of how he can exploit defenses with his scheme

I never said Kyle *didn't know defense* - I said - it's not his strength.

said it, didn't say it, you are still implying that Kyle is weak at Defense

We are getting away from the main point here in the thread. Are we failing to build a competitive team that can't win with the current strategy ?

Also, no one is saying they don't want a great OL, but reality is you can't have an entire team of All Pros. It's a give and take, unless you can get lucky like we did in the injured Jimmy years or get to trade for the best LT.

I have no issues with talking about upgrading for the future, but acting like it's solely been the reason for not winning is disingenuous

Kyle's strength is offense, *not* defense. He's known for offense - not defense. I don't know how much more clear I can be. It's also clear that Kyle's been overdrafting the defensive side with all the draft capital devoted to the defensive line. Again, I don't disagree with that strategy at all. But it does leave other parts of the team under drafted - like the offensive line.

Kyle has a preference for small but agile offensive linemen that aren't as valued in the NFL like the big first round behemoth's - typical of other offenses. So he *thinks* he can get away with drafting Offensive linemen later in the draft and getting them in free agency. That can get him in trouble in the playoffs when he can't scheme around very talented playoff defenses that can play disciplined defense. Example - the Ravens game.

You have no idea what Kyle's strengths are, you are assuming. He's the very reason changes have been made and get the DC to field or have Ward shadow players. If he was weak at defense, he wouldn't be a successful on offense

Drafting Defense is not an indicator of being weak on defense, it's the very basis of "Defense win championships"

Kyle's drafts guys who might be able to run his screen. It's not size type it's a factor of tangibles. I'm sure he would pass up TW types because he prefers smaller guys..

turn opinions into facts is whats causing this thread to turn to crap

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And memory retention d/t a lot of drugs. Smokey knows what I'm talking about. j/k

My memory is on point, lol. Room to burn.

LMAO. I believe you.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well, if you don't type clearly *what you mean* how can anybody understand what you are really saying?

Point being, Kyle's a good head coach. His strength is offense. He understands defense, but he doesn't *coach* the defense - otherwise he'd also be a defensive coordinator a la Bill Belichick. My point simply is that defense is more centered around talent, vs Scheme. Scheme requires more coaching, in my opinion. Talent on defense requires a much more simple scheme so the defense can play to their talent. To Kyle, the offensive line isn't as much a priority as his defensive line. For example. That's a strategic decision on his part - but it comes with consequences.

talk about being clear.. if you would have said this in the beginning.. i probably read through and move on

but just cause he doesn't coach offense and defense doesn't make him weaker in the two. Bill was a ST from the start and his offense is suffering

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well, if you don't type clearly *what you mean* how can anybody understand what you are really saying?

Point being, Kyle's a good head coach. His strength is offense. He understands defense, but he doesn't *coach* the defense - otherwise he'd also be a defensive coordinator a la Bill Belichick. My point simply is that defense is more centered around talent, vs Scheme. Scheme requires more coaching, in my opinion. Talent on defense requires a much more simple scheme so the defense can play to their talent. To Kyle, the offensive line isn't as much a priority as his defensive line. For example. That's a strategic decision on his part - but it comes with consequences.

talk about being clear.. if you would have said this in the beginning.. i probably read through and move on

but just cause he doesn't coach offense and defense doesn't make him weaker in the two. Bill was a DC from the start

It's all good. I"m glad you see my point.

Final OL rankings in…final 4 consisted of
1-PHI 5 seed
2. DET 3 seed
3. IND no playoffs
4. ATL no playoffs

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's what makes the draft interesting for me. You truly never know what any GM/Coach is going to do in the draft. After the first two picks - it's basically unpredictable at that point.

Having said that, Kyle's made up for a lot of his OLine shortcomings with his free agency acquisitions. That always seems a positive and not a negative attribute in Kyle's case. I think he does this on purpose. So he can devote the draft to his weakness (in a sense) the defense. I.e. he's not a defensive coach, and he'll let his offensive expertise make up the talent differential on the offense (and more specifically) the offensive line - and let the defense have all the athletic talent. Just a theory.

Kyle is well versed on the Defensive side... Trying to turn opinions into facts is whats causing this thread to turn to crap

Defense is more about talent than scheme.

That's if you have the talent, but that is irrelevant to your statement of Kyle not knowing Defense

Kyle promotes all his offensive coaches to study the Defensive side first as he did. It's the basis of how he can exploit defenses with his scheme

I never said Kyle *didn't know defense* - I said - it's not his strength.

said it, didn't say it, you are still implying that Kyle is weak at Defense

We are getting away from the main point here in the thread. Are we failing to build a competitive team that can't win with the current strategy ?

Also, no one is saying they don't want a great OL, but reality is you can't have an entire team of All Pros. It's a give and take, unless you can get lucky like we did in the injured Jimmy years or get to trade for the best LT.

I have no issues with talking about upgrading for the future, but acting like it's solely been the reason for not winning is disingenuous

Kyle's strength is offense, *not* defense. He's known for offense - not defense. I don't know how much more clear I can be. It's also clear that Kyle's been overdrafting the defensive side with all the draft capital devoted to the defensive line. Again, I don't disagree with that strategy at all. But it does leave other parts of the team under drafted - like the offensive line.

Kyle has a preference for small but agile offensive linemen that aren't as valued in the NFL like the big first round behemoth's - typical of other offenses. So he *thinks* he can get away with drafting Offensive linemen later in the draft and getting them in free agency. That can get him in trouble in the playoffs when he can't scheme around very talented playoff defenses that can play disciplined defense. Example - the Ravens game.

You have no idea what Kyle's strengths are, you are assuming. He's the very reason changes have been made and get the DC to field or have Ward shadow players. If he was weak at defense, he wouldn't be a successful on offense

Drafting Defense is not an indicator of being weak on defense, it's the very basis of "Defense win championships"

Kyle's drafts guys who might be able to run his screen. It's not size type it's a factor of tangibles. I'm sure he would pass up TW types because he prefers smaller guys..

turn opinions into facts is whats causing this thread to turn to crap

It's all opinions in a sense. No need to get annoyed by that.

Defense *used* to mean that it wins championships. Not so much nowadays with the CTE rules and whatnot. Defenses have been shackled. Defenses are basically nickel defenses nowadays. The Ronnie Lott's of old can't play in todays NFL, sad to say.

Now as for Kyle, it's precisely that *he's so strong* as a offensive coach, that he can afford (so he thinks) to draft talent to the defensive side. Hence drafting OLinemen late but drafting DLinemen - early - as an example. To a certain extent - his scheme *can* make up for talent deficiencies on offense - but at the higher levels, when facing much more talented and disciplined defenses in the playoffs for example, those deficiencies can be noticed much more readily.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
If you subtract feliciano I think this is the worst group kyles has since he took over coaching... The whole right side is turnstile bad... Brendel is worse than that previous underachiever we had at center too.

I don't recall us having that before.

Alex Mack.

It's a fair point. The difference has really been health overall and like you said, having Feliciano step in and play as well as Banks and better than Burford. Run blocking has been excellent though...probably the best we've had. Pass protection? About the same or a little worse.

I was thinking of richburg. At least he could hike the ball properly unlike brendel who 25% of the time is throwing grounders to purdy.

Banks and Trent are good. The problem is the rest of the bunch other than feliciano are like a sieve. The dams always broken by someone on that right side or middle.

Even Trent and banks have spotted a bad game each which means if say 80% of the time it's been near instant pressure prior to feliciano stepping in for burford.

It's the worst it's been in shanahans tenure IMO. We should run chips with tight ends near every play they are so bad.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Final OL rankings in…final 4 consisted of
1-PHI 5 seed
2. DET 3 seed
3. IND no playoffs
4. ATL no playoffs

But were they T1 Olines? Lol

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's what makes the draft interesting for me. You truly never know what any GM/Coach is going to do in the draft. After the first two picks - it's basically unpredictable at that point.

Having said that, Kyle's made up for a lot of his OLine shortcomings with his free agency acquisitions. That always seems a positive and not a negative attribute in Kyle's case. I think he does this on purpose. So he can devote the draft to his weakness (in a sense) the defense. I.e. he's not a defensive coach, and he'll let his offensive expertise make up the talent differential on the offense (and more specifically) the offensive line - and let the defense have all the athletic talent. Just a theory.

Kyle is well versed on the Defensive side... Trying to turn opinions into facts is whats causing this thread to turn to crap

Defense is more about talent than scheme.

That's if you have the talent, but that is irrelevant to your statement of Kyle not knowing Defense

Kyle promotes all his offensive coaches to study the Defensive side first as he did. It's the basis of how he can exploit defenses with his scheme

I never said Kyle *didn't know defense* - I said - it's not his strength.

said it, didn't say it, you are still implying that Kyle is weak at Defense

We are getting away from the main point here in the thread. Are we failing to build a competitive team that can't win with the current strategy ?

Also, no one is saying they don't want a great OL, but reality is you can't have an entire team of All Pros. It's a give and take, unless you can get lucky like we did in the injured Jimmy years or get to trade for the best LT.

I have no issues with talking about upgrading for the future, but acting like it's solely been the reason for not winning is disingenuous

Kyle's strength is offense, *not* defense. He's known for offense - not defense. I don't know how much more clear I can be. It's also clear that Kyle's been overdrafting the defensive side with all the draft capital devoted to the defensive line. Again, I don't disagree with that strategy at all. But it does leave other parts of the team under drafted - like the offensive line.

Kyle has a preference for small but agile offensive linemen that aren't as valued in the NFL like the big first round behemoth's - typical of other offenses. So he *thinks* he can get away with drafting Offensive linemen later in the draft and getting them in free agency. That can get him in trouble in the playoffs when he can't scheme around very talented playoff defenses that can play disciplined defense. Example - the Ravens game.

You have no idea what Kyle's strengths are, you are assuming. He's the very reason changes have been made and get the DC to field or have Ward shadow players. If he was weak at defense, he wouldn't be a successful on offense

Drafting Defense is not an indicator of being weak on defense, it's the very basis of "Defense win championships"

Kyle's drafts guys who might be able to run his screen. It's not size type it's a factor of tangibles. I'm sure he would pass up TW types because he prefers smaller guys..

turn opinions into facts is whats causing this thread to turn to crap

It's all opinions in a sense. No need to get annoyed by that.

Defense *used* to mean that it wins championships. Not so much nowadays with the CTE rules and whatnot. Defenses have been shackled. Defenses are basically nickel defenses nowadays. The Ronnie Lott's of old can't play in todays NFL, sad to say.

Now as for Kyle, it's precisely that *he's so strong* as a offensive coach, that he can afford (so he thinks) to draft talent to the defensive side. Hence drafting OLinemen late but drafting DLinemen - early - as an example. To a certain extent - his scheme *can* make up for talent deficiencies on offense - but at the higher levels, when facing much more talented and disciplined defenses in the playoffs for example, those deficiencies can be noticed much more readily.

annoyed probably.. i just don't see the need to knock one thing down to promote another theory.

as for deficiencies being spotlighted... yes we all saw that we needed better QB play in those games