49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
remember when NC bashed the 49ers for letting LT go.. i do lol

I'm old enough to remember him wanting Andrew Norwell, he of the massive contract in Jacksonville that was cut two years in. Every FA OL the 9ers don't sign is great even when they aren't. Orlando Brown is just his newest massive bust signing favorite.

FA OL are very tricky imo. Id much rather build through the draft.

Yeah resign your own. Draft a f**k ton of offensive lineman and bring in vets that have experience (that won't cost elite $$)

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
remember when NC bashed the 49ers for letting LT go.. i do lol

I'm old enough to remember him wanting Andrew Norwell, he of the massive contract in Jacksonville that was cut two years in. Every FA OL the 9ers don't sign is great even when they aren't. Orlando Brown is just his newest massive bust signing favorite.

FA OL are very tricky imo. Id much rather build through the draft.

Yeah resign your own. Draft a f**k ton of offensive lineman and bring in vets that have experience (that won't cost elite $$)

we do 2 out of 3. I am betting next draft we draft some bodies.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
remember when NC bashed the 49ers for letting LT go.. i do lol

I'm old enough to remember him wanting Andrew Norwell, he of the massive contract in Jacksonville that was cut two years in. Every FA OL the 9ers don't sign is great even when they aren't. Orlando Brown is just his newest massive bust signing favorite.

FA OL are very tricky imo. Id much rather build through the draft.

Yeah resign your own. Draft a f**k ton of offensive lineman and bring in vets that have experience (that won't cost elite $$)

we do 2 out of 3. I am betting next draft we draft some bodies.

Trades have worked out pretty well too.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
This current regime has drafted OL . One was drafted in the 1st and one in the 2nd round. The others were drafted in the 4th and 5th rounds. The problem id s that since 2019 they've been picking late or had no 1st rounders at all. Good tackles always go early in the draft so they haven't had a chance to draft them. There usually aren't a lot of top O linemen available. This year is supposed to be good for O line and they don't need a lot of other position help other than corner. Time to add 2 or 3 in the early rounds.

Yeah, to me, it's never been about our lack of draft capital spent.

It's the fact that Banks has been okay, and Burford has been below average, and MM was not worth a first rounder.

If we hit a home run on any of our drafted players, this OL would look a lot different.

Bingo! Literally, just one at a pro bowl/AP level and it's a big difference. Look what TW did for Laken Tomlinson. He's straight garbage in NY.

remember when NC bashed the 49ers for letting LT go.. i do lol

What made that even more interesting is that he relentlessly bashed LT the entire time he was here and even placed all the blame on him for getting JG injured multiple times

The talent has to be there. There just haven't been many drafts with a lot of talented O linemen. There are usually 2 or 3 that go in the first round and a couple in the 2nd but every year there are a lot drafted from the 5th round on. Why is that? My guess is teams don't see enough value in the early rounds to be picking players that aren't that good. They know the value of a good line but if the talent isn't there they won't waste a high draft pick. The result is a lot of mid to late round picks that may or may not pan out.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
The talent has to be there. There just haven't been many drafts with a lot of talented O linemen. There are usually 2 or 3 that go in the first round and a couple in the 2nd but every year there are a lot drafted from the 5th round on. Why is that? My guess is teams don't see enough value in the early rounds to be picking players that aren't that good. They know the value of a good line but if the talent isn't there they won't waste a high draft pick. The result is a lot of mid to late round picks that may or may not pan out.

We just need to shotgun approach it and get a bunch of prospects and see what sticks. The problem is with this approach you have to be willing to rotate and accept change.

This regime has proven to consistently not want to do that.

We saw that this year with feliciano, who is one of pffs highest graded guards, not getting to play over turnstile burford until injury forced it. Same thing last year with brunskill being a far better player than guys on both sides not getting to play until the end of the year.

We never got to see manning even get an attempt this year, even though he was stonewalling dudes in the preseason. We see it consistently with mason not get carries as well.

Offensive linemen are consistently the safest draft prospects and have the lowest bust rate of any position through every round...

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
We just need to shotgun approach it and get a bunch of prospects and see what sticks. The problem is with this approach you have to be willing to rotate and accept change.

This regime has proven to consistently not want to do that.

We saw that this year with feliciano, who is one of pffs highest graded guards, not getting to play over turnstile burford until injury forced it. Same thing last year with brunskill being a far better player than guys on both sides not getting to play until the end of the year.

We never got to see manning even get an attempt this year, even though he was stonewalling dudes in the preseason. We see it consistently with mason not get carries as well.

Offensive linemen are consistently the safest draft prospects and have the lowest bust rate of any position through every round...

This is definitely not true when looking at the team overall.

It's possible they just don't evaluate the players the same way as you, or PFF does, and they have much more information than any outside party.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
We just need to shotgun approach it and get a bunch of prospects and see what sticks. The problem is with this approach you have to be willing to rotate and accept change.

This regime has proven to consistently not want to do that.

We saw that this year with feliciano, who is one of pffs highest graded guards, not getting to play over turnstile burford until injury forced it. Same thing last year with brunskill being a far better player than guys on both sides not getting to play until the end of the year.

We never got to see manning even get an attempt this year, even though he was stonewalling dudes in the preseason. We see it consistently with mason not get carries as well.

Offensive linemen are consistently the safest draft prospects and have the lowest bust rate of any position through every round...

This is definitely not true when looking at the team overall.

It's possible they just don't evaluate the players the same way as you, or PFF does, and they have much more information than any outside party.

Kyle is also high on intelligence. Pff and us don't get to talk to the players like the 49ers do. We like those Gangsta Nerds

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
This current regime has drafted OL . One was drafted in the 1st and one in the 2nd round. The others were drafted in the 4th and 5th rounds. The problem id s that since 2019 they've been picking late or had no 1st rounders at all. Good tackles always go early in the draft so they haven't had a chance to draft them. There usually aren't a lot of top O linemen available. This year is supposed to be good for O line and they don't need a lot of other position help other than corner. Time to add 2 or 3 in the early rounds.

In 7 off seasons. It's too bad they couldn't get Trent Williams, Joe Staley, Aaron Banks and Weston Richburg all healthy together at the same time somehow. Too bad Mike McGlinchey and Spencer Burford have only been average to below average. Too bad they didn't draft Tristan Wirfs and Creed Humphrey too over those years.

But right now, they're a very solid OL and elite in run blocking. If they can stay on script, they've got as good a shot as any team to win #6 this year.

And then we'll see what year 8 brings in terms of their team building strategy for the OL and secondary. My guess (based on the past and their own words), I don't anticipate a whole lot, honestly.

Agree, and as you said, that changes with a Trent Williams retirement. From an overall standpoint, I'm pessimistic - in this sense - generally speaking playoff teams will have their depth poached. So guys like Feliciano, Pryor, Bartch and any other OLinemen in one year deals are as good as gone. 49ers will have to re-load as KC is doing on the offensive line squad after these playoffs are done.

Your point about getting all those great OLinemen healthy in the same timeline - well I wouldn't bank on that happening any time soon. 49ers will probably (non-zero chance) of losing Trent - that will initiate a big rebuild and the loss of the free agency depth will throw the organization into panic mode. At least that's what I think can happen with a Trent Williams Retirment. Now if Trent doesn't retire, it's still a big health issue because Trent's not getting any younger and if the 49ers are a playoff team again *next* year -- I don't know if the current health *luck* will hold for next year.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Yeah, to me, it's never been about our lack of draft capital spent.

It's the fact that Banks has been okay, and Burford has been below average, and MM was not worth a first rounder.

If we hit a home run on any of our drafted players, this OL would look a lot different.

Which is what NC never understood. It's not a about resources spent, it's about who you pick. OL can be found all over the draft, the trick is identifying them properly. It's not as easy as some make believe it is with the way guys are taught in college.

Well the odds of striking it rich - if you devote more resources to it - makes sense, at least to me. Although only Bosa, to my recollection, has really amounted to much with regards to all of ShanaLynche's high round draft picks going to defense. They've spent tons of cap space on Dee Ford, for example, and have had nothing to show for it. I think getting an elite edge rusher is almost as hard as getting an elite QB. The problem for me is if you can't draft - you have to go to the free agency route, and that can cost you later if *you can't draft.* It's a vicious descending circle if you go that route.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
This current regime has drafted OL . One was drafted in the 1st and one in the 2nd round. The others were drafted in the 4th and 5th rounds. The problem id s that since 2019 they've been picking late or had no 1st rounders at all. Good tackles always go early in the draft so they haven't had a chance to draft them. There usually aren't a lot of top O linemen available. This year is supposed to be good for O line and they don't need a lot of other position help other than corner. Time to add 2 or 3 in the early rounds.

Yeah, to me, it's never been about our lack of draft capital spent.

It's the fact that Banks has been okay, and Burford has been below average, and MM was not worth a first rounder.

If we hit a home run on any of our drafted players, this OL would look a lot different.

Bingo! Literally, just one at a pro bowl/AP level and it's a big difference. Look what TW did for Laken Tomlinson. He's straight garbage in NY.

remember when NC bashed the 49ers for letting LT go.. i do lol

I remember asking if our LG benefit from TW or not and vice versa. I think its obvious TW makes the LG look way better than they may be.

I think that should go for both sides too. A top elite right tackle should make the right guard look good too. I share my hope with all of you that ShanaLynch doesn't ignore the OLine this next draft cycle and when he does pick - it's more of a Banks kind of prospect vs a McGlinchy/Burford kind of prospect. Hope hope!

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
FA OL are very tricky imo. Id much rather build through the draft.

As is drafting OL.

NY85 had some great points about getting OLinemen in free agency versus the draft. I agree with most of what he says. I'd just add to what he generally says about drafting OLInemen by saying *durability* is also *ability* and - maybe you get a not so great OLine prospect, but he has decent measurables, but he's durable. I think that makes a better prospect than a guy that has great measurables but isn't durable. Brendel and Feliciano have been durable. Bank's had that toe, and Burford's had some health issues too. I hope they can do a deal with Feliciano and maybe keep him a bit longer like Brendel.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Kyle is also high on intelligence. Pff and us don't get to talk to the players like the 49ers do. We like those Gangsta Nerds

I think one of the reasons for the intelligence being a big game changer in Kyle's offense is just the angles the 49er blocking schemes ask them to do. Kyle likes to outformation the defense, in a sense. He hides his explosive plays behind varied formations. You have the full compliment of blocking - from inside zone, outside zone, to gap and power blocking - because of all of Kyle's different formations. The whole shebang. That's like Brock being able to keep up with Kyle on the passing side of this offense. I've seen Burford hurt this team because he took the wrong angle or didn't do the handoffs to this fellow OLineman right.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Yeah, to me, it's never been about our lack of draft capital spent.

It's the fact that Banks has been okay, and Burford has been below average, and MM was not worth a first rounder.

If we hit a home run on any of our drafted players, this OL would look a lot different.

Which is what NC never understood. It's not a about resources spent, it's about who you pick. OL can be found all over the draft, the trick is identifying them properly. It's not as easy as some make believe it is with the way guys are taught in college.

Well the odds of striking it rich - if you devote more resources to it - makes sense, at least to me. Although only Bosa, to my recollection, has really amounted to much with regards to all of ShanaLynche's high round draft picks going to defense. They've spent tons of cap space on Dee Ford, for example, and have had nothing to show for it. I think getting an elite edge rusher is almost as hard as getting an elite QB. The problem for me is if you can't draft - you have to go to the free agency route, and that can cost you later if *you can't draft.* It's a vicious descending circle if you go that route.

what is your point here

We have devoted resources
We have drafted well
We do make splash FA signing and trades

Being the top team and envied by so many front offices shows we have been doing pretty good

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Kyle is also high on intelligence. Pff and us don't get to talk to the players like the 49ers do. We like those Gangsta Nerds

I think one of the reasons for the intelligence being a big game changer in Kyle's offense is just the angles the 49er blocking schemes ask them to do. Kyle likes to outformation the defense, in a sense. He hides his explosive plays behind varied formations. You have the full compliment of blocking - from inside zone, outside zone, to gap and power blocking - because of all of Kyle's different formations. The whole shebang. That's like Brock being able to keep up with Kyle on the passing side of this offense. I've seen Burford hurt this team because he took the wrong angle or didn't do the handoffs to this fellow OLineman right.

I always feel OL takes time to flourish. I think Beu just needs more time. Glad we have Felice here to jump in anytime