49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well the odds of striking it rich - if you devote more resources to it - makes sense, at least to me. Although only Bosa, to my recollection, has really amounted to much with regards to all of ShanaLynche's high round draft picks going to defense. They've spent tons of cap space on Dee Ford, for example, and have had nothing to show for it. I think getting an elite edge rusher is almost as hard as getting an elite QB. The problem for me is if you can't draft - you have to go to the free agency route, and that can cost you later if *you can't draft.* It's a vicious descending circle if you go that route.

Had a SB appearance to show for it.

Having an elite DL is essential to winning. Only 2nd to QB to me.

Drafting every position is hard. No one is drafting better on the whole however despite the desires for the Ryan Pace strategies instead.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Yeah, to me, it's never been about our lack of draft capital spent.

It's the fact that Banks has been okay, and Burford has been below average, and MM was not worth a first rounder.

If we hit a home run on any of our drafted players, this OL would look a lot different.

Which is what NC never understood. It's not a about resources spent, it's about who you pick. OL can be found all over the draft, the trick is identifying them properly. It's not as easy as some make believe it is with the way guys are taught in college.

Well the odds of striking it rich - if you devote more resources to it - makes sense, at least to me. Although only Bosa, to my recollection, has really amounted to much with regards to all of ShanaLynche's high round draft picks going to defense. They've spent tons of cap space on Dee Ford, for example, and have had nothing to show for it. I think getting an elite edge rusher is almost as hard as getting an elite QB. The problem for me is if you can't draft - you have to go to the free agency route, and that can cost you later if *you can't draft.* It's a vicious descending circle if you go that route.

what is your point here

We have devoted resources
We have drafted well
We do make splash FA signing and trades

Being the top team and envied by so many front offices shows we have been doing pretty good

For sure ShanaLynch has out drafted the competition. Big example is Brock Purdy. He's as valuable as 3 first round draft picks! IF ShanaLynch can't *draft* offensive linemen (again not saying he can't, but hypothetically speaking) then he has to go to the free agency route which is expensive. If that continues - the cap structure becomes unbalanced, and maybe they can't devote as much cap space to the defensive line (as an example) which goes to my point that it's a descending spiral. Again, *if* for some reason they can't consistently draft much better on the offensive line. My hope is that the can somehow draft better offensive linemen in the future.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well the odds of striking it rich - if you devote more resources to it - makes sense, at least to me. Although only Bosa, to my recollection, has really amounted to much with regards to all of ShanaLynche's high round draft picks going to defense. They've spent tons of cap space on Dee Ford, for example, and have had nothing to show for it. I think getting an elite edge rusher is almost as hard as getting an elite QB. The problem for me is if you can't draft - you have to go to the free agency route, and that can cost you later if *you can't draft.* It's a vicious descending circle if you go that route.

Had a SB appearance to show for it.

Having an elite DL is essential to winning. Only 2nd to QB to me.

Drafting every position is hard. No one is drafting better on the whole however despite the desires for the Ryan Pace strategies instead.

Well we overdrafted - in a sense - the QB position. I think about Trey as spending 3 first round draft picks on a QB three years in a row, and finally they strike it rich with Purdy (7th rounder). In other words, striking it rich by drafting Purdy is - to me - like throwing a ton of draft capital at the QB position. It finally bore some fruit in Purdy. It was intentional and well thought out. QB position is critical for keeping Kyle's job. I take the same position - in a sense - with the offensive line. If ShanaLynch want's a dominant offensive line, they will spend the draft resources to get it. Now they do have a *dominant defensive line* - why? Because they have put a considerable amount of draft capital and cap space to that position with good reason. The Defensive line is key nowadays to stopping offenses because of all the CTE rules.

My point is that *if* the 49ers *can't* stop drafting badly on the offensive line, then it can result in a vicious negative spiral where they draft more and more and spend more and more on the Offensive line with less and less results - to the detriment of the rest of the team.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well we overdrafted - in a sense - the QB position. I think about Trey as spending 3 first round draft picks on a QB three years in a row, and finally they strike it rich with Purdy (7th rounder). In other words, striking it rich by drafting Purdy is - to me - like throwing a ton of draft capital at the QB position. It finally bore some fruit in Purdy. It was intentional and well thought out. QB position is critical for keeping Kyle's job. I take the same position - in a sense - with the offensive line. If ShanaLynch want's a dominant offensive line, they will spend the draft resources to get it. Now they do have a *dominant defensive line* - why? Because they have put a considerable amount of draft capital and cap space to that position with good reason. The Defensive line is key nowadays to stopping offenses because of all the CTE rules.

My point is that *if* the 49ers *can't* stop drafting badly on the offensive line, then it can result in a vicious negative spiral where they draft more and more and spend more and more on the Offensive line with less and less results - to the detriment of the rest of the team.

I don't think thats necessarily true. Eagles starting LT wasn't drafted.

It's about what you get from the resources you use. Didn't use a 1st round pick from 87 to 03 I believe and yet McKittrick had good lines every year. Gotta do a better job identifying the players IMO.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Yeah, to me, it's never been about our lack of draft capital spent.

It's the fact that Banks has been okay, and Burford has been below average, and MM was not worth a first rounder.

If we hit a home run on any of our drafted players, this OL would look a lot different.

Which is what NC never understood. It's not a about resources spent, it's about who you pick. OL can be found all over the draft, the trick is identifying them properly. It's not as easy as some make believe it is with the way guys are taught in college.

Well the odds of striking it rich - if you devote more resources to it - makes sense, at least to me. Although only Bosa, to my recollection, has really amounted to much with regards to all of ShanaLynche's high round draft picks going to defense. They've spent tons of cap space on Dee Ford, for example, and have had nothing to show for it. I think getting an elite edge rusher is almost as hard as getting an elite QB. The problem for me is if you can't draft - you have to go to the free agency route, and that can cost you later if *you can't draft.* It's a vicious descending circle if you go that route.

what is your point here

We have devoted resources
We have drafted well
We do make splash FA signing and trades

Being the top team and envied by so many front offices shows we have been doing pretty good

For sure ShanaLynch has out drafted the competition. Big example is Brock Purdy. He's as valuable as 3 first round draft picks! IF ShanaLynch can't *draft* offensive linemen (again not saying he can't, but hypothetically speaking) then he has to go to the free agency route which is expensive. If that continues - the cap structure becomes unbalanced, and maybe they can't devote as much cap space to the defensive line (as an example) which goes to my point that it's a descending spiral. Again, *if* for some reason they can't consistently draft much better on the offensive line. My hope is that the can somehow draft better offensive linemen in the future.

but you're talking as if we haven't accomplished anything with the cards we have been dealt with so far.

We all want to hit on every draft pick, expecting so is just not realistic

if you want a stud OL, you are going to need to be a team who has first dibs at picking them. If you don't take the top OL, you are definitely not going to start them over guys on this team who have been playing in the scheme already. So that pick is wait and see in two years (like the OL picks of Moore, Mannings, Poes and Zaks). That bench/project pick could have gotten you a different skill position that can play almost immediately.

Do you want to keep trading resources to get top OL ?
Do you want to draft OL that needs grooming ?
Do you sign a FA ?
Do you trade ?

Since we can't have everything we want, we sure did a fine job with what we can control

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
This current regime has drafted OL . One was drafted in the 1st and one in the 2nd round. The others were drafted in the 4th and 5th rounds. The problem id s that since 2019 they've been picking late or had no 1st rounders at all. Good tackles always go early in the draft so they haven't had a chance to draft them. There usually aren't a lot of top O linemen available. This year is supposed to be good for O line and they don't need a lot of other position help other than corner. Time to add 2 or 3 in the early rounds.

In 7 off seasons. It's too bad they couldn't get Trent Williams, Joe Staley, Aaron Banks and Weston Richburg all healthy together at the same time somehow. Too bad Mike McGlinchey and Spencer Burford have only been average to below average. Too bad they didn't draft Tristan Wirfs and Creed Humphrey too over those years.

But right now, they're a very solid OL and elite in run blocking. If they can stay on script, they've got as good a shot as any team to win #6 this year.

And then we'll see what year 8 brings in terms of their team building strategy for the OL and secondary. My guess (based on the past and their own words), I don't anticipate a whole lot, honestly.

Agree, and as you said, that changes with a Trent Williams retirement. From an overall standpoint, I'm pessimistic - in this sense - generally speaking playoff teams will have their depth poached. So guys like Feliciano, Pryor, Bartch and any other OLinemen in one year deals are as good as gone. 49ers will have to re-load as KC is doing on the offensive line squad after these playoffs are done.

Your point about getting all those great OLinemen healthy in the same timeline - well I wouldn't bank on that happening any time soon. 49ers will probably (non-zero chance) of losing Trent - that will initiate a big rebuild and the loss of the free agency depth will throw the organization into panic mode. At least that's what I think can happen with a Trent Williams Retirment. Now if Trent doesn't retire, it's still a big health issue because Trent's not getting any younger and if the 49ers are a playoff team again *next* year -- I don't know if the current health *luck* will hold for next year.

Very refreshing just seeing quality discussion in here again! It's like old times in here again.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well the odds of striking it rich - if you devote more resources to it - makes sense, at least to me. Although only Bosa, to my recollection, has really amounted to much with regards to all of ShanaLynche's high round draft picks going to defense. They've spent tons of cap space on Dee Ford, for example, and have had nothing to show for it. I think getting an elite edge rusher is almost as hard as getting an elite QB. The problem for me is if you can't draft - you have to go to the free agency route, and that can cost you later if *you can't draft.* It's a vicious descending circle if you go that route.

Had a SB appearance to show for it.

Having an elite DL is essential to winning. Only 2nd to QB to me.

Drafting every position is hard. No one is drafting better on the whole however despite the desires for the Ryan Pace strategies instead.

The reason I'm pounding the OLine drafting issue is *Brock Purdy* I just don't want another Andrew Luck situation with Brock Purdy. They have done a decent job in getting some good free agents and some decent draft picks on the OLine. I think *one* reason they couldn't spend more draft capital on the offensive line, is because they spent so much of that in finding their Franchise QB. (3 first round picks on Trey). My point is that now that they have *found* their franchise QB, the 49ers have to keep said franchise QB to stay healthy and have a long *Tom Brady/Drew Brees* type of career.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well we overdrafted - in a sense - the QB position. I think about Trey as spending 3 first round draft picks on a QB three years in a row, and finally they strike it rich with Purdy (7th rounder). In other words, striking it rich by drafting Purdy is - to me - like throwing a ton of draft capital at the QB position. It finally bore some fruit in Purdy. It was intentional and well thought out. QB position is critical for keeping Kyle's job. I take the same position - in a sense - with the offensive line. If ShanaLynch want's a dominant offensive line, they will spend the draft resources to get it. Now they do have a *dominant defensive line* - why? Because they have put a considerable amount of draft capital and cap space to that position with good reason. The Defensive line is key nowadays to stopping offenses because of all the CTE rules.

My point is that *if* the 49ers *can't* stop drafting badly on the offensive line, then it can result in a vicious negative spiral where they draft more and more and spend more and more on the Offensive line with less and less results - to the detriment of the rest of the team.

I don't think thats necessarily true. Eagles starting LT wasn't drafted.

It's about what you get from the resources you use. Didn't use a 1st round pick from 87 to 03 I believe and yet McKittrick had good lines every year. Gotta do a better job identifying the players IMO.

Key there in your statement was McKittrick. We haven't found that guy yet - but I do think Foerster is approaching that level. I think he can be a better coach if given some better materials. Foerster has done wonders with Compton (6th rounder) and Brunskill (undrafted) - for example. Imagine what he can do with at least a 5th rounder like McKivitz. However, my peeve, was last year they didn't even *try* to get a McKivitz or a Jalyon Moore (5th round), or a Tom Compton. Heck - they didn't even draft an offensive lineman at all.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Yeah, to me, it's never been about our lack of draft capital spent.

It's the fact that Banks has been okay, and Burford has been below average, and MM was not worth a first rounder.

If we hit a home run on any of our drafted players, this OL would look a lot different.

Which is what NC never understood. It's not a about resources spent, it's about who you pick. OL can be found all over the draft, the trick is identifying them properly. It's not as easy as some make believe it is with the way guys are taught in college.

Well the odds of striking it rich - if you devote more resources to it - makes sense, at least to me. Although only Bosa, to my recollection, has really amounted to much with regards to all of ShanaLynche's high round draft picks going to defense. They've spent tons of cap space on Dee Ford, for example, and have had nothing to show for it. I think getting an elite edge rusher is almost as hard as getting an elite QB. The problem for me is if you can't draft - you have to go to the free agency route, and that can cost you later if *you can't draft.* It's a vicious descending circle if you go that route.

what is your point here

We have devoted resources
We have drafted well
We do make splash FA signing and trades

Being the top team and envied by so many front offices shows we have been doing pretty good

For sure ShanaLynch has out drafted the competition. Big example is Brock Purdy. He's as valuable as 3 first round draft picks! IF ShanaLynch can't *draft* offensive linemen (again not saying he can't, but hypothetically speaking) then he has to go to the free agency route which is expensive. If that continues - the cap structure becomes unbalanced, and maybe they can't devote as much cap space to the defensive line (as an example) which goes to my point that it's a descending spiral. Again, *if* for some reason they can't consistently draft much better on the offensive line. My hope is that the can somehow draft better offensive linemen in the future.

but you're talking as if we haven't accomplished anything with the cards we have been dealt with so far.

We all want to hit on every draft pick, expecting so is just not realistic

if you want a stud OL, you are going to need to be a team who has first dibs at picking them. If you don't take the top OL, you are definitely not going to start them over guys on this team who have been playing in the scheme already. So that pick is wait and see in two years (like the OL picks of Moore, Mannings, Poes and Zaks). That bench/project pick could have gotten you a different skill position that can play almost immediately.

Do you want to keep trading resources to get top OL ?
Do you want to draft OL that needs grooming ?
Do you sign a FA ?
Do you trade ?

Since we can't have everything we want, we sure did a fine job with what we can control

Feliciano, Pryor, Bartch are all Day 3 picks. Last year Kyle didn't even *try* for a offensive lineman day three pick, despite having 9 draft picks!

Kyle's past typical OLineman is the smaller more agile guys (usually day 3 picks or undrafted), and he's been successful with that - BUT guys like Feliciano, Pryor and Bartch are all currently much bigger guys than is Kyle's typical guys. I don't think he can continue going with day 3 picks in the draft if he wants to go more gap/power. I think he has to devote more day 2 picks - at least - towards the offensive line. I.e. more like Banks/McGlinchy level athletes vs McKivitz type athletes.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
This current regime has drafted OL . One was drafted in the 1st and one in the 2nd round. The others were drafted in the 4th and 5th rounds. The problem id s that since 2019 they've been picking late or had no 1st rounders at all. Good tackles always go early in the draft so they haven't had a chance to draft them. There usually aren't a lot of top O linemen available. This year is supposed to be good for O line and they don't need a lot of other position help other than corner. Time to add 2 or 3 in the early rounds.

In 7 off seasons. It's too bad they couldn't get Trent Williams, Joe Staley, Aaron Banks and Weston Richburg all healthy together at the same time somehow. Too bad Mike McGlinchey and Spencer Burford have only been average to below average. Too bad they didn't draft Tristan Wirfs and Creed Humphrey too over those years.

But right now, they're a very solid OL and elite in run blocking. If they can stay on script, they've got as good a shot as any team to win #6 this year.

And then we'll see what year 8 brings in terms of their team building strategy for the OL and secondary. My guess (based on the past and their own words), I don't anticipate a whole lot, honestly.

Agree, and as you said, that changes with a Trent Williams retirement. From an overall standpoint, I'm pessimistic - in this sense - generally speaking playoff teams will have their depth poached. So guys like Feliciano, Pryor, Bartch and any other OLinemen in one year deals are as good as gone. 49ers will have to re-load as KC is doing on the offensive line squad after these playoffs are done.

Your point about getting all those great OLinemen healthy in the same timeline - well I wouldn't bank on that happening any time soon. 49ers will probably (non-zero chance) of losing Trent - that will initiate a big rebuild and the loss of the free agency depth will throw the organization into panic mode. At least that's what I think can happen with a Trent Williams Retirment. Now if Trent doesn't retire, it's still a big health issue because Trent's not getting any younger and if the 49ers are a playoff team again *next* year -- I don't know if the current health *luck* will hold for next year.

Very refreshing just seeing quality discussion in here again! It's like old times in here again.

Yeah, the he said/she said conversations are interesting up to a point. Then it's the same old - same old merry go round stuff. Nothing wrong with that. It's just not my thang.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
This current regime has drafted OL . One was drafted in the 1st and one in the 2nd round. The others were drafted in the 4th and 5th rounds. The problem id s that since 2019 they've been picking late or had no 1st rounders at all. Good tackles always go early in the draft so they haven't had a chance to draft them. There usually aren't a lot of top O linemen available. This year is supposed to be good for O line and they don't need a lot of other position help other than corner. Time to add 2 or 3 in the early rounds.

In 7 off seasons. It's too bad they couldn't get Trent Williams, Joe Staley, Aaron Banks and Weston Richburg all healthy together at the same time somehow. Too bad Mike McGlinchey and Spencer Burford have only been average to below average. Too bad they didn't draft Tristan Wirfs and Creed Humphrey too over those years.

But right now, they're a very solid OL and elite in run blocking. If they can stay on script, they've got as good a shot as any team to win #6 this year.

And then we'll see what year 8 brings in terms of their team building strategy for the OL and secondary. My guess (based on the past and their own words), I don't anticipate a whole lot, honestly.

Agree, and as you said, that changes with a Trent Williams retirement. From an overall standpoint, I'm pessimistic - in this sense - generally speaking playoff teams will have their depth poached. So guys like Feliciano, Pryor, Bartch and any other OLinemen in one year deals are as good as gone. 49ers will have to re-load as KC is doing on the offensive line squad after these playoffs are done.

Your point about getting all those great OLinemen healthy in the same timeline - well I wouldn't bank on that happening any time soon. 49ers will probably (non-zero chance) of losing Trent - that will initiate a big rebuild and the loss of the free agency depth will throw the organization into panic mode. At least that's what I think can happen with a Trent Williams Retirment. Now if Trent doesn't retire, it's still a big health issue because Trent's not getting any younger and if the 49ers are a playoff team again *next* year -- I don't know if the current health *luck* will hold for next year.

Very refreshing just seeing quality discussion in here again! It's like old times in here again.

Yeah, the he said/she said conversations are interesting up to a point. Then it's the same old - same old merry go round stuff. Nothing wrong with that. It's just not my thang.

Childish, really. Block feature is epic. Back to the OL.

3-prong baby.

What's actually being childish is not being accountable for the things you say. That's what children do

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
What's actually being childish is not being accountable for the things you say. That's what children do

lol, he's pretty fragile also.. "blocking people".. lol

Giedi makes him feel wholesome again. Someone throwing you layups and agreeing with everything you say can do wonders for one's mental state. Let him have his peace of mind.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well we overdrafted - in a sense - the QB position. I think about Trey as spending 3 first round draft picks on a QB three years in a row, and finally they strike it rich with Purdy (7th rounder). In other words, striking it rich by drafting Purdy is - to me - like throwing a ton of draft capital at the QB position. It finally bore some fruit in Purdy. It was intentional and well thought out. QB position is critical for keeping Kyle's job. I take the same position - in a sense - with the offensive line. If ShanaLynch want's a dominant offensive line, they will spend the draft resources to get it. Now they do have a *dominant defensive line* - why? Because they have put a considerable amount of draft capital and cap space to that position with good reason. The Defensive line is key nowadays to stopping offenses because of all the CTE rules.

My point is that *if* the 49ers *can't* stop drafting badly on the offensive line, then it can result in a vicious negative spiral where they draft more and more and spend more and more on the Offensive line with less and less results - to the detriment of the rest of the team.

Good points. It's so nice we have solved for QB, which is the toughest position to project from college to pro, imo. Now we have a golden window of opportunity, both in terms of cap, and in terms of focusing all draft assets on non QB positions. The dilemma will be do we draft, or do we flip picks for known NFL stars. Probably both. On OL I would like to see some drafted, hard to trade, can be done but not usual that a team is giving up good OL.