49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
We will decide who the T1 Oline is after the Super Bowl clearly Eagles aren't a T1 Oline

Unless it's the 9ers of course. Then it'll be our aggregate line rankings were too much for the competition.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
QB + D + Coach

Far better formula.

oooh KC would score high

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
We will decide who the T1 Oline is after the Super Bowl clearly Eagles aren't a T1 Oline

Unless it's the 9ers of course. Then it'll be our aggregate line rankings were too much for the competition.

Chemistry will be added after the Super Bowl so don't rule out the 49ers.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Tier 1 OLs can't figure out how to block a blitz?

We will decide who the T1 Oline is after the Super Bowl clearly Eagles aren't a T1 Oline

Clearly. BT knew it all the way back in pre season. That's why he didn't have them at the top through the regular season up until they lost Monday night. I bet he has them tier 12 now just because Hurts can't beat the blitz.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
oooh KC would score high

So would Buffalo, Baltimore, and SF.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
oooh KC would score high

So would Buffalo, Baltimore, and SF.

What rent-free topic did I miss today?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Personally the formula is more of a conceptual philosophy to me. It tries to get to the point that its a *team game* not a individual positon game. A good team is composed of a good OLine, QB, etc... all the parts. A bad team is usually missing one or all the parts. Etc...

I'm not hung up on tiers so much as the idea behind it. The idea behind it is simple - you needs every positon performing well to have a win. Its not really more complicated than that. The tier thing is a game by game thing and tries to predict how a unit does vs its opposing matchup. Those change game to game.

It's a passing league. QB + OL is crucial in that formula. These are the elite DL these OL already sent home packing: Myles Garrett, Zadarius Smith, Aaron Donald, Micah Parsons, Demarcus Lawrence, Josh Sweat, Fletcher Cox, Hassan Reddick. And let's be honest, TJ Watt would have been sent home too even if healthy.

And the formula that worked for 7 straight years? While broken this year, you're still most likely going to end up with a tier 1 QB (MVP candidate) + Tier 2 (top 7) OL.

That's not exactly far off from the original formula and overall point. That's no different than this micro-crowd claiming an MVP Mahomes won a Superbowl with a tier 2 OL (not tier 1).

I agree that the CTE rules definitely have given the offense the upper hand. No more Slobberknocking hits etc... I don't know if the typical NFL game will ever cycle back to the *Defense wins Superbowl's* era. Not with CTE being a big issue with the current NFL and the various high school and college programs across the country. Nowadays, defensive play is a lot more like Basketball vs the old Dynasty slobbernocking football days of Ronnie Lott and Ken Norton.

Defensive play is now centered disrupting the timing and Rythm of the QB and Receiver. To the extent an offensive line can prevent a defense from disrupting that timing/Rythm, the offense should win vs a typical defense. Add in the mobility of a QB, and now the defense has to contend with scramble drills that eliminate even the timing/rythm disruptions a typically good defensive line generates. I think guys like Shanahan, McVAy, and LaFleaur will be winning a lot of games vs guys like Salah, Demeco (without Slowick) and Wilks (if he gets another HC job) from here on in, unless the rules change again.

Yup... overly protecting the QB inside and outside the pocket and protecting "defenseless" receivers has been paramount to being wide open on offense. Outside of the Ravens and us, every other team passes more then they run. WR's and pass catching TE's have taken over the league. Run blocking is archaic. All the rules stacked up against the defense to encourage wide open offenses. NFL wants entertainment. Passing is the most entertaining.

This is where I think Kyle's system is so superior to most other systems - classic west coast, run & shoot, ground and pound, air coryell, and fast break offense... etc... and all their variants.

Kyle knows it's pretty much illegal for the defense to blind side receivers nowadays, so he has the receivers catch over the middle against the defenses and generate YACs. With receivers able to block, but defenders cannot - that's a big advantage for the offense. The outside zone run is key to his system because the run and the pass looks so identical, it's hard for the defenders to guess more than 50% accuracy whether it's a run or a pass. With the rules advantage and the scheme advantage vs the defense, Kyle's offense is going to become more and more popular around the NFL and in college. One reason is the CTE issue affects *all* levels of football and so eventually the rest of the football world is going to adopt those kinds of rule advantage for the offense.

One offensive deficiency is the cut blocking rules. The NFL has essentially eliminated the outside zone cut blocks in all areas except a few instances. So the backside blocking of the zone run is much weaker now that it used to be. To fix that - Kyle *has to* get bigger at both OT positions (I think) to get back the backside cut block advantages of the outside zone runs.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
https://www.eaglesmessageboard.com/topic/10846-oline-delusion/

Arguments from a parallel world.

Haha! I agree with them. I said earlier this year I thought Philly's OL dropped off a lot from last year. But then again, I don't watch every single snap of every team and stack them either. I'll leave that up to the actual SME's for that.

It could be injuries or the regression of QB play that can affect an OLine. Also If you give a QB 3 seconds in the pocket, but he can't find a receiver to throw to because the QB's lost his confidence in himself, that's not an OLIne problem. Conversely, he may be a good QB, but his current receivers can't break man coverage in 3 seconds that's another problem not on the OLine. In other words, it's hard to separate QB play from the rest of the team. It's a team game. You need good performance from the QB and the OLine to have a functional offense.

Yeah, it would be hilarious to see how PFF graded Phily's individual OL against Todd Bowles last night. You would absolutely need to be an expert to even begin breaking down that film and assigning grades to who was and who wasn't at fault along the OL with all the extra blitzers.

This man knew what was coming.

"Todd Bowles is going to blitz off the bus…the Eagles have not shown any ability to handle pressure…"@GregCosell already knows the Bucs game plan on defense tonight: pic.twitter.com/EC0WnzwhhY

— Ross Tucker Podcast (@RossTuckerPod) January 15, 2024

Usually I watch the game before I look at the stats, but that's just me. PFF is a sound organization and they try to do their jobs, but some stats they generate just make you shake your head as it just doesn't reasonably connect to what I saw in the game.

PHillys offense is just horrible. Jalen's wonderful mobility is wasted in that offense. If a team is going to blitz your team, it actually (in a way) makes the QB reads easier. I.e. there is *less* cover guys covering the receivers vs a typical four man rush. Now, of course, that means the QB needs to quickly hit his hot route receivers, and if it's true that Philly *doesn't have that* mid game part of the offense developed - that's criminal negligence on the part of the offensive coordinator. This is basic pop-warner stuff.

As to Jalen's mobility, that's a big advantage over a blitzing team because of Jalen's mobility to get away from the blitz. That can be utilized against any type of zone blitz. And if a team is going to blitz, to calm that down, you run the ball down their throats (ie off tackles, quick hitters draw plays, screen games etc...) I didn't see much screens and draws, moving pockets, roll outs etc... in the Philly game to tell you the truth. Then again I just watched the highlights. I don't really follow other teams. I have no time to.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
oooh KC would score high

So would Buffalo, Baltimore, and SF.

Hard to top Mahomes, KC D and Reid. You like BUF coaching? BAL would score high I agree.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Maybe NC meant with all *other things being equal.* At least that's what I'm reading when he says - got to have Tier 1 this that and the other. Even if he didn't mention it, in this day and age of the NFL - it looks like offense rules. I saw a stat that said pretty much every playoff team this year had a Head coach with an offensive background. So there is some truth to the fact that offense might be more important than defense.

Interesting theory

BUF - D
KC - O
BAL - ST
HOU - D

SF - O
DET - O
GB - O
TB - D

I think the trick is as we saw historically with the early Alex 49ers, your quality OC can be poached easily, with a D HC. I'm not as worried about a DC poached as I am an O playcaller. Kyle was OC to Quinn, we poached.

Agree💯%, I think it's harder to build an offense than a defense - from a scheme perspective. A defensive coordinator can't (unless he's a genius - and there are some in the history of the NFL) just come up with an offensive scheme after he's hired as a head coach. There's a ton of experience needed by an offensive coordinator to build an offense. Some examples are: type of QB, OLine, receivers, how they block, how they catch, what route combos work with what run plays they counter off of. Thousands upon thousands of combinations and to have the ability to coach the individual offensive positions - as a head coach. A typical defensive coordinator can't just pick that up after decades spent on the defensive side of the ball.

Even if you *are a offensive coordinator* -- you spend your entire career implementing a certain type of blocking system, and the next year the NFL outlaws your blocking scheme, now you have to start *all over again* and spend another 5 years figuring it out, **if** you are lucky to still have a job the year after that rules change.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Hard to top Mahomes, KC D and Reid. You like BUF coaching? BAL would score high I agree.

Yea, Sean McDermott is pretty good.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
oooh KC would score high

So would Buffalo, Baltimore, and SF.

What rent-free topic did I miss today?

The hiding is a lost cause.

So TW looks like a go for next season. (I wonder if he will still feel that way if we are fortunate enough to win it all) Two of their top 4 picks should be tackles the next draft.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
So TW looks like a go for next season. (I wonder if he will still feel that way if we are fortunate enough to win it all) Two of their top 4 picks should be tackles the next draft.

Agreed major investment at the tackle spot is needed

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
So TW looks like a go for next season. (I wonder if he will still feel that way if we are fortunate enough to win it all) Two of their top 4 picks should be tackles the next draft.

Agreed major investment at the tackle spot is needed

Any two tackles ?