49ers Offensive Line

This is going to be an epic matchup.

Originally posted by NCommand:

DL/OL Aggregate | Playoff Seeding | Record
1. Cowboys 3. (2) | 2 | 12-5 - Eliminated
6. Eagles 1. (3.5) | 5 | 11-6 - Eliminated
2. 49ers 7. (4.5) | 1 | 12-5
5. Chiefs 6. (5.5) | 3 | 11-6
10. Lions 2. (6) | 3 | 12-5
9. Texans 5. (7) | 4 | 10-7 - Eliminated
8. Ravens 8. (8) | 1 | 13-4
4. Browns 12. (8) | 5 | 11-6 - Eliminated
13. Bucs 4. (8.5) | 4 | 9-8 - Eliminated
3. Steelers 14. (8.5) | 7 | 10-7 - Eliminated
7. Packers 11. (9) | 7 | 9-8 - Eliminated
11. Rams 10. (10.5) | 6 | 10-6 - Eliminated
12. Bills 9. (10.5) | 2 | 11-6
14. Dolphins 13. (13.5) | 6 | 11-6 - Eliminated

49ers OL #7 vs. #7 Packers DL (Even)
49ers DL #2 vs. #11 Packers OL (49ers big edge)

No doubt who won the trenches last night. That's very concerning as a 9er fan. Fully rested and healthy too.

As to tonight's trench matchups, Chiefs and Lions should have big edges.

Overall it's mostly shaping out how you'd expect in the trenches. 8 of the bottom 9 already eliminated: might be 9 of 9 after tonight. TO's continue to transcend good and bad trench play.

Updating.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NCommand:

DL/OL Aggregate | Playoff Seeding | Record
1. Cowboys 3. (2) | 2 | 12-5 - Eliminated
6. Eagles 1. (3.5) | 5 | 11-6 - Eliminated
2. 49ers 7. (4.5) | 1 | 12-5
5. Chiefs 6. (5.5) | 3 | 11-6
10. Lions 2. (6) | 3 | 12-5
9. Texans 5. (7) | 4 | 10-7 - Eliminated
8. Ravens 8. (8) | 1 | 13-4
4. Browns 12. (8) | 5 | 11-6 - Eliminated
13. Bucs 4. (8.5) | 4 | 9-8 - Eliminated
3. Steelers 14. (8.5) | 7 | 10-7 - Eliminated
7. Packers 11. (9) | 7 | 9-8 - Eliminated
11. Rams 10. (10.5) | 6 | 10-6 - Eliminated
12. Bills 9. (10.5) | 2 | 11-6
14. Dolphins 13. (13.5) | 6 | 11-6 - Eliminated

49ers OL #7 vs. #7 Packers DL (Even)
49ers DL #2 vs. #11 Packers OL (49ers big edge)

No doubt who won the trenches last night. That's very concerning as a 9er fan. Fully rested and healthy too.

As to tonight's trench matchups, Chiefs and Lions should have big edges.

Overall it's mostly shaping out how you'd expect in the trenches. 8 of the bottom 9 already eliminated: might be 9 of 9 after tonight. TO's continue to transcend good and bad trench play.

Updating.

Yup, Lions coming to town.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NCommand:

DL/OL Aggregate | Playoff Seeding | Record
1. Cowboys 3. (2) | 2 | 12-5 - Eliminated
6. Eagles 1. (3.5) | 5 | 11-6 - Eliminated
2. 49ers 7. (4.5) | 1 | 12-5
5. Chiefs 6. (5.5) | 3 | 11-6
10. Lions 2. (6) | 3 | 12-5
9. Texans 5. (7) | 4 | 10-7 - Eliminated
8. Ravens 8. (8) | 1 | 13-4
4. Browns 12. (8) | 5 | 11-6 - Eliminated
13. Bucs 4. (8.5) | 4 | 9-8 - Eliminated
3. Steelers 14. (8.5) | 7 | 10-7 - Eliminated
7. Packers 11. (9) | 7 | 9-8 - Eliminated
11. Rams 10. (10.5) | 6 | 10-6 - Eliminated
12. Bills 9. (10.5) | 2 | 11-6
14. Dolphins 13. (13.5) | 6 | 11-6 - Eliminated

49ers OL #7 vs. #7 Packers DL (Even)
49ers DL #2 vs. #11 Packers OL (49ers big edge)

No doubt who won the trenches last night. That's very concerning as a 9er fan. Fully rested and healthy too.

As to tonight's trench matchups, Chiefs and Lions should have big edges.

Overall it's mostly shaping out how you'd expect in the trenches. 8 of the bottom 9 already eliminated: might be 9 of 9 after tonight. TO's continue to transcend good and bad trench play.

Updating.

Yup, Lions coming to town.

Yup. Lions getting stomped.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
Been a major question mark the last 3 years and this is the worst of the 3 years.

I think it's better than 2019. We have Felicano and Brendel vs Brunskill and Person. IMO. Purdy's mobility will help the OLine too.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
Been a major question mark the last 3 years and this is the worst of the 3 years.

Good thing Brock isn't a statue like jimmy.

True. And CMC is every QB's best friend both in the run and outlet pass. Brock leaned on him all night.

Good point about CMC helping the OLIne too. Those credible play fakes will help give the Offensive line a bit more pass protection time for Brock on those deeper throws.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
People are getting confused here. This isn't about the need to upgrade at OL. We all want that. This about the team we have now.

choose your OL view:
1. NCs side is that we have no chance of winning this year. Something he said before the season and placed a bet on with the poster Smokey

2. While we don't have the best OL, we can win and possibly win a ship with this team

Or just reject that paradigm and you can argue that long term this team needs to adjust their approach the OL and make it more of a priority, especially if they're going to utilize Purdy more as a pure passer in shotgun...etc.

100% what I'm saying. It's like Sith speak. When the reality is more fluid and somewhere in the middle.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Their OL was terrific - no sacks.

Our OL wasn't terrific.

There needs to be a heavy focus in the off season on FA & the draft.

I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with you. But this is the WZ. Haha.

This is my position too.

Yes we really need to invest more and develop guys. GB has all 5 guys starting home grown ? And their starters are very good. Thats fantastic output.

For sure when their rt went down we saw a difference, but as someone told me the entire league has o-line issues especially with depth due to the new cba etc.

Aside banks nobody we drafted has panned out very well. Thats mcg, mck, burford, Moore, zeickjl or whatever etc etc. it's a bad spot on this team and I hope Kyle tries something new with it. No idea if it's drafting or coaching or both.

if you want to talk future, point out the lock OL picks towards the end of the rounds.. pointing out issues is easy

What are you saying if I don't like our o line play I have to know who to draft otherwise shut up? That's why they pay Kyle, John and all the scouts no? That's their job. I'm the fan who gets to observe and opine. I am counting on them tho.

Agree 💯%, Censorship has no place on these boards, unless you are violating the rules.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Yup. Lions getting stomped.

What most of us on this forum want

.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well, folks who haven't seen the dynasty years (again I understand it's pre-cap years) can't conceive of how *perfect* the 49er teams were in those years - with Eddie D.'s money and whatnot. Nowadays, the Cap really forces parity, and no team can be strong everywhere. But that's not what I'm saying - I'm saying they can't have *weaknesses* anywhere. I think there is a difference.

You need *both* a good OLine *and* a good QB. You don't need both to be elite. I think maybe folks are reading *elite* in there instead of just *good.* (p.s. to win a Superbowl, you can't have *any* weakness anywhere, currently the 49er OLine is good, but not great)

Well tier one is elite last I checked. That is the bar so we are told.

I think NC's main idea is that you need both. It helps if you have a elite OLIne (for lack of a better word) vs a good OLine for sure. I think the Elite stuff got mixed up with the Jimmy QB stuff. I.e. Elite OLine vs Just a good enough QB - can a Jimmy type QB win a Superbowl? My position has always been yes, but that OLine has to be elite - some examples are Nick Foles and his Eagle Line etc....

Purdy is a generational QB and because of that --- despite the play of the 49er OLine in the GB game, he was able to pull it out. To me that's a definition of a generational QB. Jimmy would have struggled against GB yesterday - I agree. He's a good QB, but not a Generational one like Purdy. That Green Bay team yesterday was much better than the team Jimmy played last time in the playoffs.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think NC's main idea is that you need both. It helps if you have a elite OLIne (for lack of a better word) vs a good OLine for sure. I think the Elite stuff got mixed up with the Jimmy QB stuff. I.e. Elite OLine vs Just a good enough QB - can a Jimmy type QB win a Superbowl? My position has always been yes, but that OLine has to be elite - some examples are Nick Foles and his Eagle Line etc....

Purdy is a generational QB and because of that --- despite the play of the 49er OLine in the GB game, he was able to pull it out. To me that's a definition of a generational QB. Jimmy would have struggled against GB yesterday - I agree. He's a good QB, but not a Generational one like Purdy. That Green Bay team yesterday was much better than the team Jimmy played last time in the playoffs.

No his point has always been you need to be elite at both. Not good. Tier 1

i don't buy Jimmy could win with the Lions. Too many dumb throws.

In end if you have an elite QB, coach and defense you have a shot.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Their OL was terrific - no sacks.

Our OL wasn't terrific.

There needs to be a heavy focus in the off season on FA & the draft.

I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with you. But this is the WZ. Haha.

This is my position too.

We see the receipts daily in here. Well, I don't. LOL

Yeah, great QBs can transcend bad OLines - kind of takes. You need both.

"Good enough but I want to draft a T, G & C next year with the first 3 picks." LOL

So you DON'T think it's good enough?

Que the "Pivot!" meme.

Well, folks who haven't seen the dynasty years (again I understand it's pre-cap years) can't conceive of how *perfect* the 49er teams were in those years - with Eddie D.'s money and whatnot. Nowadays, the Cap really forces parity, and no team can be strong everywhere. But that's not what I'm saying - I'm saying they can't have *weaknesses* anywhere. I think there is a difference.

You need *both* a good OLine *and* a good QB. You don't need both to be elite. I think maybe folks are reading *elite* in there instead of just *good.* (p.s. to win a Superbowl, you can't have *any* weakness anywhere, currently the 49er OLine is good, but not great)

Yeah, all weaknesses get exposed in the playoffs. It's the great reveal. Some are finally exposed as glaring. Others aren't as severe or as bad as originally thought.

Agree 💯%, and it was in the playoffs that durability got exposed. Examples: Richburg going down, Jimmy going down for the entire 2020 season, injured shoulder, thumb, foot etc... Kyle will change his strategy/scheme/approach if he hits a wall. In this case, losing in 2016, he is a much more run oriented coach nowadays. He's changed from OC to HC. He now employs Complimentary football. 2019 I think was another major turning point as he's gone a bit more inside zone and gap power in his blocking and OLine personnel acquisitions. Big step is getting a franchise QB like Purdy. With Purdy, he pretty much can employ any offensive scheme and he'll be successful.

Hopefully this next year he works on the OLine - I don't want an early Andrew Luck retirement situation for Brock.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Pressure rate
Brock- 41.9%
Love- 40.0%

49ers O line- 14 hurries, 3 hits, 1 sack
Packers O line- 14 hurries, 3 hits, 0 sacks.

What I thought. Similar rates. Difference is GB doesn't play a super soft zone that allows for easy dump offs for 5-7 yards every time.

Another difference is that our DLine is supposed to be **much better** than the Packers DLine.

Not according to pressure stats. The playoff pressure stats had GB 2nd in O line and 3rd in DL. The 49ers were ranked 9th in O line and 5th DL.

Green Bay did a number on the Cowboys, and the Cowboys are a much more pass oriented club than we are. Not saying the stats are wrong, but that it's (Maybe) telling you a different story than what is really going on. Point being, is that our DLine is *supposedly* much better than the GB DLine and our OLine didn't do very well in the GB game. So maybe our OLine is a lot worse than I thought. I haven't rewatched the game yet - I want to see how Tampa and Detroit do first.

Yea. Results are usually a better indicator than mainstream perception.

The actual difference in the game was 3rd ranked playoff pressure QB rose to the occassion while the 6th ranked playoff pressure QB crumbled.

Agree. Stats can only tell you what happened, not what is going to happen. Stats can give you some deeper insights and a quicker read as to the overall strength of a NFL ballclub. I use stats to see if what I see on film is what I can see in the stats. Pressure stats, for example, can be from a weak OLine to a very talented blitzing team. So to me - without looking at the film - stats are meaningless to me. You need both. Just like you need both a good OLine and a good QB to win games.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Pressure rate
Brock- 41.9%
Love- 40.0%

49ers O line- 14 hurries, 3 hits, 1 sack
Packers O line- 14 hurries, 3 hits, 0 sacks.

What I thought. Similar rates. Difference is GB doesn't play a super soft zone that allows for easy dump offs for 5-7 yards every time.

Another difference is that our DLine is supposed to be **much better** than the Packers DLine.

Not according to pressure stats. The playoff pressure stats had GB 2nd in O line and 3rd in DL. The 49ers were ranked 9th in O line and 5th DL.

Green Bay did a number on the Cowboys, and the Cowboys are a much more pass oriented club than we are. Not saying the stats are wrong, but that it's (Maybe) telling you a different story than what is really going on. Point being, is that our DLine is *supposedly* much better than the GB DLine and our OLine didn't do very well in the GB game. So maybe our OLine is a lot worse than I thought. I haven't rewatched the game yet - I want to see how Tampa and Detroit do first.

Yea. Results are usually a better indicator than mainstream perception.

were the 9th anf 5th rankings due to only one game played and not 2 ?

A lot of times DVOA kinds of stats are based on the average and the expected. So first you have to average the stats, and get a bead on the median. Then once you have that - you have the expected value, and then you measure the expected *average* vs the actual and you can get some sort of measure as to how a team is exceeding the average.

The problem I have with DVOA is it's an average vs film which is very specific to each team. One can have a great looking defense, but in reality the defense is average because the offense is masking some defensive deficiencies because it's such a great offense. (for example). So you have to be careful with how you use stats to understand a game. It can mislead -- yourself *and/or* other folks.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Pressure rate
Brock- 41.9%
Love- 40.0%

49ers O line- 14 hurries, 3 hits, 1 sack
Packers O line- 14 hurries, 3 hits, 0 sacks.

What I thought. Similar rates. Difference is GB doesn't play a super soft zone that allows for easy dump offs for 5-7 yards every time.

Another difference is that our DLine is supposed to be **much better** than the Packers DLine.

Not according to pressure stats. The playoff pressure stats had GB 2nd in O line and 3rd in DL. The 49ers were ranked 9th in O line and 5th DL.

Green Bay did a number on the Cowboys, and the Cowboys are a much more pass oriented club than we are. Not saying the stats are wrong, but that it's (Maybe) telling you a different story than what is really going on. Point being, is that our DLine is *supposedly* much better than the GB DLine and our OLine didn't do very well in the GB game. So maybe our OLine is a lot worse than I thought. I haven't rewatched the game yet - I want to see how Tampa and Detroit do first.

Yea. Results are usually a better indicator than mainstream perception.

The actual difference in the game was 3rd ranked playoff pressure QB rose to the occassion while the 6th ranked playoff pressure QB crumbled.

Agree. Stats can only tell you what happened, not what is going to happen. Stats can give you some deeper insights and a quicker read as to the overall strength of a NFL ballclub. I use stats to see if what I see on film is what I can see in the stats. Pressure stats, for example, can be from a weak OLine to a very talented blitzing team. So to me - without looking at the film - stats are meaningless to me. You need both. Just like you need both a good OLine and a good QB to win games.

You act like I don't watch the games. 🤣 Of course the stats are used to confirm what I see on film. Why do you think you are different than me when it comes to that? Actually, you need an elite QB, an elite HC and an elite defense since the very beginning of modern football. Guess what? We have all 3.